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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 [ This thread is 59 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 (31) 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ]
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 10, 2012 05:27 PM

Zero.  The primary is over.

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn


Famous Hero
posted May 10, 2012 06:26 PM
Edited by Brukernavn at 18:28, 10 May 2012.

These are the delegate numbers from Ben Swans reality check from a week or so ago regarding delegates:
Romney: 670 (bound)
Paul: 66 (bound)
Gingrich+Santorum: 353 (bound)
Unbound: 403

Remaining states;
Bound: 638
Unbound: 156

It is from the unbound delegates that Paul has been able to do exceptionally well, for instance securing 90 % of the delegates in Maine and similarly in other caucus states.
The magical number coming in to the convention is 1143 delegates. If anyone has that many delegates they can win on the first round. Paul will not be able to get that many delegates. But Romney is still a good way from that too. So the best chance he has is to keep Romney from accumulating 1143 delegates. It's unlikely. But so was him winning a single state, and here he's won 11. If no one has 1143 on the first round of voting, the bound delegates become unbound and can vote for whomever they wish. Then anything could happen.

What the campaign seems to talk about now though is influence rather than presidency. The more delegates they can stack up, the more they will have to say regarding the platform of the GOP. They are also laying the ground for reforming the party, taking over several states. The new GOP chairman in Iowa was the captain of the Paul campaign for instance.

And one should not forget Warren G. Harding that had 39 delegates coming into the convention in 1918, but ended up being the nominee, and winning the general election by a landslide. I find it peculiar that Paul is able to draw thousands in every rally in every state he goes to, yet Romney struggles to get a few hundred:
http://youtu.be/W53n-L7OmYg

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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted May 12, 2012 10:14 AM
Edited by moonlith at 10:19, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
I honestly hope that America doesn't elect Obama AGAIN. I don't think we've had a worse president. EVER

How about the one who came right before him?

Quote:
The only thing Obama has done in office is run up our debt and go on lavish vacations. And its disgusting that anyone ever supported him.

Oh right, Obama totally singlehandedly drove your country into an economic crisis. All blame is on him! The idea the system itself is flawed and can't be saved is obviously not a possibility.

If only it had been a republican in office the world would have been fine, right?

Quote:
Since a Obama/Romney chart was put up, here is the most current map of delegate wins by state:

Wow. Five states voting Santorum.... Wow. Just wow.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 04:25 PM

Wow, everything about economy and whatnot has been discussed except the recent powerful stance of Obama about an important human rights and equality issue. Guess some people would only understand the importance of this man's saying that and setting an example to the world (if he does it) if they were the ones whose rights are not given to them. I'm out of sympathy for anyone supporting Romney.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 12, 2012 04:27 PM
Edited by Corribus at 16:28, 12 May 2012.

I don't think it's that meaningful but it sure is brilliant politicking.  Give it to Axelrod; he's a genius for this kind of thing.  It's a good thing for the dems that most of the country is so stupid not to see through it.

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 04:55 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 16:56, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
I don't think it's that meaningful but it sure is brilliant politicking.  Give it to Axelrod; he's a genius for this kind of thing.  It's a good thing for the dems that most of the country is so stupid not to see through it.


Why is it not meaningful? I know he has always been in an out about this subject throughout his career. He even mentioned equal rights for us in his presidential speech. And I know he had done absolutely nothing. But now, he said it, just out straight. And every country in the world is talking about it.

Even in our pathetic country, first time ever, some newspaper journalists started to say "we should have that too", "we must support gay right" and etc. And it's being talked about. It's being listened, which is the important part.

Cause we can, yes, speak, but noone listens. But when the first African-American leader of USA comes out and says this, yeah, it is listened. And they started to question things. Everything starts with questioning, everyone knows that. The whole world's questioning. Maybe as I am gay, I follow it more closely, but everyone is questioning about gay rights because of this man's words.

They can be just mere political. He can just forget about it after he is re-elected. I would be sad a little, but that sadness wouldn't compete with this hopfulness I am feeling about this subject.
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GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted May 12, 2012 05:10 PM

In the holy kingdom of Sweden, a top politician would doom his own career and wound his party by publically admitting to being against gay marriage or rights. It is scary how gay marriage/rights is even an issue in the supposedly mightiest and most influentual nation on Earth.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted May 12, 2012 05:45 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 17:50, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
I don't think it's that meaningful but it sure is brilliant politicking.  Give it to Axelrod; he's a genius for this kind of thing.  It's a good thing for the dems that most of the country is so stupid not to see through it.


It's saddening that people are too dumb to see it for what it is.

Quote:
In the holy kingdom of Sweden, a top politician would doom his own career and wound his party by publically admitting to being against gay marriage or rights. It is scary how gay marriage/rights is even an issue in the supposedly mightiest and most influentual nation on Earth.


That's why President Obama wasn't going to endorse it.  People act like it's a great thing that he did, but in 2008 he said marriage was between a man and a woman.  He knew it would kill his campaign to say otherwise.   Due to the Vice President's big mouth, he was backed into a corner and had to make a statement. He never really wanted to make the statement.  The only time he would have done so would have been after the election, when it could not harm him.  Now it will affect his campaign, and I don't think in a good way.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 05:52 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I don't think it's that meaningful but it sure is brilliant politicking.  Give it to Axelrod; he's a genius for this kind of thing.  It's a good thing for the dems that most of the country is so stupid not to see through it.


It's saddening that people are too dumb to see it for what it is.


Can we get a little more explicit about these statements? Please explain "what it is" and why the dems are lucky for the country not seeing through it?
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted May 12, 2012 05:56 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 18:00, 12 May 2012.

Do you honestly think President Obama wanted to make such a statement?  He never wanted to touch the issue.  His thoughts weren't evolving.  He knew that it would be stupid to weigh in on gay marriage when faced with reelection.  He wants the states to deal with the issue.

Unfortunately, the vice president just doesn't seem to understand discretion.  I'm frankly amazed at this point, due to all of his snafus, that he has not been replaced on the ticket.  

Ask yourself this:  If President Obama was really passioante about the issue and supported gay marriage, don't you think he would have said something sooner?
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GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted May 12, 2012 06:07 PM

This is a good example for why career politicians suck. Saying anything to get elected. I sort of wish that there were more true visionaries but unfortunatly these visionaries usually are crazy people you want to keep away from any kind of power position.

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 06:09 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 18:10, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
Do you honestly think President Obama wanted to make such a statement?  He never wanted to touch the issue.  His thoughts weren't evolving.  He knew that it would be stupid to weigh in on gay marriage when faced with reelection.  He wants the states to deal with the issue.

Unfortunately, the vice president just doesn't seem to understand discretion.  I'm frankly amazed at this point, due to all of his snafus, that he has not been replaced on the ticket.  

Ask yourself this:  If President Obama was really passioante about the issue and supported gay marriage, don't you think he would have said something sooner?


I've of course asked it. And I've replied to many people saying "he's lying". But then, as my post above says, I've seen the effects of it. I'm pretty sure he won't do anything about it. But I don't care. Cause the Romney thingy wouldn't even say this, let alone doing something. Please read my previous post if you haven't cause it explains why I support this this much.

And even though he did not mean it, why is his saying this a bad thing? Think from the pointview of everyone that wants this citizenship right to be given to same-sex couples, although I think you're also one of them. Even though it's a lie, isn't it great for our rights, for this to be said by the president of USA?

Quote:
This is a good example for why career politicians suck. Saying anything to get elected. I sort of wish that there were more true visionaries but unfortunatly these visionaries usually are crazy people you want to keep away from any kind of power position.


I honestly think Hilary Clinton would already have done it if she was selected in the previous election. And I'm sad she didn't become a candidate for this one.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 12, 2012 06:11 PM
Edited by Corribus at 18:13, 12 May 2012.

Actually, OD, I don't think Biden's comment was a slip-up.  I think the whole thing is a tactical game of smoke-and-mirrors to divert the conversation away from what really matters - the economy.  

Lookit, Obama's record on the economy sucks, and everyone, including Obama, knows it.  Whether the president is responsible or not, the recovery has been very slow.  He's going to be blamed for it.  That's just the way it is.  Obama's a weak incumbent and if the GOP wasn't loaded with equally weak challengers he'd be a 1-term president for absolute sure.

Biden may have a big mouth, but even he's not so stupid as to let the cat out of the bag on such a sensitive issue.  Plus it came just a moment after a cabinet member came out and said the same thing - Arnie Duncan, seriously?  When have you heard anything from the man in the last three years, and suddenly he's opining on gay marriage during a press conference?  What?? That's pretty convenient.  And then, right after NC's predictable outlawing of gay marriage in that state, Obama makes this huge announcement that he's suddenly had some epiphany about gay marriage, all during a programming-interrupting special ABC news segment in which Robin Robins is shaking in the background with orgiastic joy?  Then this crazy story about Romney beating up some allegedly gay kid in high school almost half a century ago - a story which even the kid's family says can't be true.  It's really too many dominos in a row to be coincidence.

It's all diversion 101.  Sun Tzu always said one of the best ways to win a battle is to be the one who choses the battlefield.  That's what is happening here.  Obama can't win if the battlefield is the economy, so what has his campaign done for the last few months?  They've controlled the conversation to distract people from talking about what really matters - the whole contraception thing, womens' healthcare, now gay marriage.  

It's brilliant politicking, really.

Yeah, maybe it's a little bit of a gamble to come out on such a hot-button issue, but let's face it.  Most of the middle doesn't really care about gay marriage as an issue - the people who are dead-set against it are going to vote GOP anyway.  What they gain is a complete defocusing of the conversation from what it should be on, what might actually make the middle go GOP this time around, and the Obama campaign makes Romney and the GOP look like throwbacks to another era by forcing them to come out on the other side of the issue.  Romney has to - primary isn't over yet, after all.  The timing is perfect.  AND Obama STILL said it's a state's issue, regardless of what he believes, giving him a convenient way out of actually having to do anything with his newfound belief.  So all he really did was state an opinion that won't change anything at all!

Nocturnal, that's what I meant when I said it's meaningless.  Don't get me wrong, buddy, I totally dig it's a great emotional moment for homosexuals, and I'm on the president's side on this one.  But I don't believe for a second this whole "evolving, evolving, evolved!" bullcrap he's peddling.  You've got to see that in the end it's just a political move that's not going to help homosexuals out in the least.

If it wasn't so disgusting and typical of the way politicians behave (not to mention complete against how Obama said he was going to change the way Washington works), I'd almost say it's a beautiful piece of work.  As an admirer of excellent strategy, though, I have to appreciate it for at least that.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 12, 2012 06:35 PM

The reaction is funny too, like you people don't know how the politician behave. The elections-based democracy is 90% about re-elections and 10% about what's left (which is usually the important stuff) - do you honestly believe that any sane candidate will emphasize on something that can make the regular voters think - like the case with Obama and the economy (frankly I don't know how not-so-good the situation is but let's say that it is as you claim)? Politician lie, politicians mislead, politicians manipulate and so on - all of it is as old as the politics. One should pay attention to their post-election strategies* - if they announce such - and not to their cheap propaganda.

*I don't mean the regular "I'll make my country heaven on earth" bullpoo that they shout during the campaign but actual strategies with concrete steps and arguments why X has to be done using Y, etc.

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 06:43 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 18:44, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
Actually, OD, I don't think Biden's comment was a slip-up.  I think the whole thing is a tactical game of smoke-and-mirrors to divert the conversation away from what really matters - the economy.  


You know, this is the strange part for me, really. How come what really matters is economy and not your keeping a basic citizenship right away from your citizens while giving it to others. How come, economy, which is bound to get better and worse, is more important for some people than basic human rights.

I personally do not care if the economy sucks in my country if I am paying the same tax as a heterosexual does but can't have the part of the life that whole societies are based on, marriage, setting up your life with the one you love and having new generations with him/her.

Additionally, giving the stolen marriage right to gay people would mean a total questioning of LGB rights throughout the world and the homophobic people's getting used to it, so creating a tolerance at least to our existence and ultimately a progression towards the end of homophobia and the tortures millions of people have gone through for decades.

And comparing this to the current economical state and calling the latter "what really matters"? I really doubt you're on that side you say you are.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 12, 2012 06:52 PM
Edited by Corribus at 18:55, 12 May 2012.

Not meaning to belittle it, Nocturnal, but the economy affects me and 99.999% of the country a whole lot more than the issue of gay marriage does.  You're right, to me the economy is a far more important issue.  And I wouldn't consider getting an equal tax deduction a "basic human right", no offense.  Homosexuals have the same basic human rights as everyone else.  They should be able to enter into marriage contracts that are recognized legally, but it's hardly an issue that rivals in importance a stagnant economy (or another potential recession) that could hundreds of thousands of people their homes and their livelihoods.    

Quote:
I really doubt you're on that side you say you are.

So what, now, I'm a liar?  And here I thought we could be civil.

EDIT: And by the way, it's a far more important international issue as well, for as the US economy goes, so too does the world's.  US recognition of homosexual marriage will have only the smallest impact on the world, if any at all.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 12, 2012 07:08 PM

I think the biggest reason for Obama to come out and openly support gay marriage is because of the Independent voters, who have shown to lean more to the pro gaymarriage side. (by 53 pro to 44 against) Those are crucial voters as always.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 12, 2012 07:10 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 21:34, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
Not meaning to belittle it, Nocturnal, but the economy affects me and 99.999% of the country a whole lot more than the issue of gay marriage does.  You're right, to me the economy is a far more important issue.  And I wouldn't consider getting an equal tax deduction a "basic human right", no offense.  Homosexuals have the same basic human rights as everyone else.  They should be able to enter into marriage contracts that are recognized legally, but it's hardly an issue that rivals in importance a stagnant economy (or another potential recession) that could hundreds of thousands of people their homes and their livelihoods.    

Quote:
I really doubt you're on that side you say you are.

So what, now, I'm a liar?  And here I thought we could be civil.


We are civil. You may be at that side, but not like any of "us". Everyday I more clearly see that people who are not oppressed does only so much understand what it really is and it's sad.

Whatever. Continue with your economy chitchat.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted May 12, 2012 07:30 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 19:33, 12 May 2012.

Quote:
Actually, OD, I don't think Biden's comment was a slip-up.  I think the whole thing is a tactical game of smoke-and-mirrors to divert the conversation away from what really matters - the economy.  


That goes without saying.  Anything to distract from the dismal state of the economy.  Mt favorite tactic is how they emphasize the "lowered" unemployment numbers for month X.
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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted May 13, 2012 10:24 AM
Edited by Shyranis at 10:25, 13 May 2012.

The American economy though is in such a state that only Ron Paul would actually seem to do the necessary cutting to fix it. He'd have to cut a ton, make your country (and the world) go into a depression while it reconfigures itself to adjust to the lack of "free" government money flowing around.

Why do I say your country needs to go into a depression? Because all of the European countries that have had money issues chose large austerity measures and have had double-dip recessions. Worse recovery than the US currently has. The problem is that the way the economy is currently modeled, it will take decades to fix and can't be done by lazily changing tiny bits here and there. Bush and Obama have mostly gone for Stimulus rather than for austerity, but being the world's largest debtor also means the US has much more austerity that would be required of it than any other country.

It's enough to make this picture of Obama be one of real fear than fake.



If you have Romney elected, or really any Republican candidate, they will only cut what they don't like but also ramp up spending in what they love, refuse to cut things even suggested by places they should (the military suggested cuts on useless projects that the GOP filibustered) and give further tax cuts to people who already have enormous loopholes.



Both parties only seem to pander to their bases, and lately have been extremely petty in making their points to hurt those that support the other guy and continue doing what they have always done... a slow recovery is business as usual sadly, and whoever gets to be the person in the whitehouse during it just gets to sit there uselessly while Congress bickers over issues that have nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with screwing the people who support them.
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