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| Thread: Heroines of Might and Magic |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 22, 2011 07:03 AM |
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(...) and then, rather than making an existing Haven archetype female (like the swordsman, the zealot, or the archer), they tried to invent something new. Which was brave. But the way they executed the Glory suggests that they didn't give it very much thought.
I'm actually not quite sure about this. Having seen the model's uncanny resemblence to the H5 Pixie/Sprite*, I ask myself if this was actually an attempt to make something new, or whether they rather thought that the Pixie was a good unit with a long history in the game, and thus it could fill the ranks of the Haven lightup if they gave it some "light" properties.
I don't know, but the point is that *if* a Pixie using the Glory model had turned up in a Sylvan town, I don't really think people would have complained that much. Problem is it seems completely out of place in Haven line-up, not to mention the fact that it's redundant with a "light element incarnation" when we already have the Angels, which one would suppose was just that.
* I mean, look at this and compare to Glory!!!
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Heroes of might and magic is a fantasy, do the females really need to be “weaker” then the males?
Of course not, after all there have always been as many female heroines as male heroes(don't know the exact number, but I assume). There are plenty of other fantasy's where female warriors are just as common as male warriors, for example Oblivion and Dragon Age.
I think this whole discussion is a bit misunderstood - I mean, think about how the game works, if you have a legion of Swordsmen, you still only see *one* picture of him - but it's not like their all clones. Just like with the rest of us, some of them must be tall, some short, some light haired, some dark haired, some gay - and some female, for all that matters. Their all just symbolised by the male image.
As a case of point, look at the Heroes: It's not like all the Knights are male, and all the Clerics are female. So this whole discussion whether "number" of males and females need to be this or that seems to take the representation of the units much to litteral.
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What will happen now?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted February 22, 2011 07:18 AM |
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As a case of point, look at the Heroes: It's not like all the Knights are male, and all the Clerics are female. So this whole discussion whether "number" of males and females need to be this or that seems to take the representation of the units much to litteral.
QFT, QFE. I won't scare all of you with the thought that Incubus and Succubus were supposedly the same creatures..it only depended on who their 'target' was what formed they used....
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Message received.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2011 09:58 AM |
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What makes you guys think that the Sister is unable to attack and defend herself??
Let me clarify, was the monk from H3 unable to attack? No because he used magic, why shouldn't the sister be able to do the same? Because she's a girl? because she isn't dressed properly? huh?
If she can fight, then she's wearing the most inappropriate clothes for the purpose. This robe, apart from being totally unprotective, will hinder her movement when it comes to both offensive and defensive stances. If she's a melee "fighter", I promise to laugh at her attack animations.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 22, 2011 10:22 AM |
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There are several thing I just can't understand
1: Why is there such a fuss about the sisters look. In the model she doesn't look like a beutyquen. More like a common slavic girl with a Tiara in her hair. She has Long hair, a jewel in it and a pale face. Does this take you 2 hours to take care of girls? I don't really think so.
2: Problem with women being support unites. If I miss the fact that the Sister is the "Only female support unit in Heroes VI so far", The fact is that most human woman would rather do the support role, and that the support role is important.
3: What is whit the Lamasu? First people were mad because she had a nice face and was female. Now she looks like a hag, with is fitting for a undead combination of several corpses, and people still have something to complain about.
I think the problem is, that MOST PEOPLE would not recognize a women in a game if
1: she didnt look like a model
2: didn't represent something that is connected with feminine image
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 22, 2011 10:38 AM |
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What makes you guys think that the Sister is unable to attack and defend herself??
Let me clarify, was the monk from H3 unable to attack? No because he used magic, why shouldn't the sister be able to do the same? Because she's a girl? because she isn't dressed properly? huh?
If she can fight, then she's wearing the most inappropriate clothes for the purpose. This robe, apart from being totally unprotective, will hinder her movement when it comes to both offensive and defensive stances. If she's a melee "fighter", I promise to laugh at her attack animations.
OK sou you are saying that 30cm high wings on a helmet, or a "not so small statue" of a bird on a helmet are perfect for combat?
And when Im at it, What about all those hooks on the necro armor? They are more of a problem than help. And also, ever tryed to use bones as weapons? If you are not using a small knife it isn't really that efectiv.
And do not forget the legendary "High heels" of the Dark elves, Nothing like a good pare of High-heels in an underground cave.
So that was for the topic of inapropriet armor and weapons. Now lets us just say that this is a stylistic image that has no true meaning other then to look good and catch the eye of the consumer.
btw. in compare to the examples I have given, the sister actually has a fitting outfit
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2011 10:43 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 10:46, 22 Feb 2011.
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1: Why is there such a fuss about the sisters look. In the model she doesn't look like a beutyquen. More like a common slavic girl with a Tiara in her hair. She has Long hair, a jewel in it and a pale face. Does this take you 2 hours to take care of girls? I don't really think so.
Hardly "common". And it could take more than 2 hours for the whole make-up - I've personally observed (actually endured) the process a couple of times and these 2 hours are sort of underestimation, trust me...
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OK sou you are saying that 30cm high wings on a helmet, or a "not so small statue" of a bird on a helmet are perfect for combat?
And when Im at it, What about all those hooks on the necro armor? They are more of a problem than help. And also, ever tryed to use bones as weapons? If you are not using a small knife it isn't really that efectiv.
And do not forget the legendary "High heels" of the Dark elves, Nothing like a good pare of High-heels in an underground cave.
So that was for the topic of inapropriet armor and weapons. Now lets us just say that this is a stylistic image that has no true meaning other then to look good and catch the eye of the consumer.
If you go through the topics about the appearances of the creatures, you will find out that I find all the things you mentioned completely unsuitable. I mentioned it even in this topic. So no, that's not what I'm saying. And the consumer is not homogeneous mass, some of us actually don't like the ShinY so much.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 22, 2011 10:57 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
1: Why is there such a fuss about the sisters look. In the model she doesn't look like a beutyquen. More like a common slavic girl with a Tiara in her hair. She has Long hair, a jewel in it and a pale face. Does this take you 2 hours to take care of girls? I don't really think so.
Hardly "common". And it could take more than 2 hours for the whole make-up - I've personally observed (actually endured) the process a couple of times and these 2 hours are sort of underestimation, trust me...
I Can't really trust you on this. I have my own experienc and I have "Made" more complicated outfits in less then 30 min (everithing planed thou)
Ond for thy Shiny: well some of us do not need it, but it is a fact that a "Common consumer" does like this (considering a "Fan" is not a common consumer).
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted February 22, 2011 11:04 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
What makes you guys think that the Sister is unable to attack and defend herself??
Let me clarify, was the monk from H3 unable to attack? No because he used magic, why shouldn't the sister be able to do the same? Because she's a girl? because she isn't dressed properly? huh?
If she can fight, then she's wearing the most inappropriate clothes for the purpose. This robe, apart from being totally unprotective, will hinder her movement when it comes to both offensive and defensive stances. If she's a melee "fighter", I promise to laugh at her attack animations.
It's called magic, something that tends to exist in a fantastical world. The Sister can protect and heal people by praying. She probably has magical protection granted to her by faith.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2011 11:14 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:16, 22 Feb 2011.
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I Can't really trust you on this. I have my own experienc and I have "Made" more complicated outfits in less then 30 min (everithing planed thou)
Cool, let it be 30 minutes, not that it matters at all. I'm only saying that it could take much more.
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It's called magic, something that tends to exist in a fantastical world. The Sister can protect and heal people by praying. She probably has magical protection granted to her by faith.
Ahem. And this is written where in her description? Or I have to invent the excuse in question? When one can't put up a graceful explanation for something obviously stupid, then "magic" is the panacea. Cool...
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vicheron
Known Hero
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posted February 22, 2011 12:05 PM |
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Edited by vicheron at 12:06, 22 Feb 2011.
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Quote:
Quote:
It's called magic, something that tends to exist in a fantastical world. The Sister can protect and heal people by praying. She probably has magical protection granted to her by faith.
Ahem. And this is written where in her description? Or I have to invent the excuse in question? When one can't put up a graceful explanation for something obviously stupid, then "magic" is the panacea. Cool...
Pacification (Upgrade): The Vestals of the Holy Empire walk with a natural aura of purity and truth that brings spiritual pause to the enemies they attack. Their resolve and beauty has been known to strike their enemies speechless. A well-known Elven ballad recounts a battle with Vestals, claiming that each blow they delivered felt like being slapped on the face by your mother.
And what the Sister that is so much more ridiculous than all the other fantastical stuff in the game? How is the ability to turn people into stone, teleport across the battlefield, raise people from the dead, shoot lightning from the palms, etc., more believable than the Sister being protected by magic? This is a fantasy game, magic is the panacea, or do you have some scientific explanation for all the fantastical elements in the game?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 22, 2011 01:46 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 13:47, 22 Feb 2011.
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Pacification (Upgrade): The Vestals of the Holy Empire walk with a natural aura of purity and truth that brings spiritual pause to the enemies they attack. Their resolve and beauty has been known to strike their enemies speechless. A well-known Elven ballad recounts a battle with Vestals, claiming that each blow they delivered felt like being slapped on the face by your mother.
And what the Sister that is so much more ridiculous than all the other fantastical stuff in the game? How is the ability to turn people into stone, teleport across the battlefield, raise people from the dead, shoot lightning from the palms, etc., more believable than the Sister being protected by magic? This is a fantasy game, magic is the panacea, or do you have some scientific explanation for all the fantastical elements in the game?
And how does this protect the Vestal? The "resolve and beauty" part is ridiculous, the rest is about some form or offensive ability which sounds convincing if you're a whiny emo elf, not, say, a frenzied soldier in the middle of the battle (forget about totally uncaring demons, undead and such which are the often-encountered-enemies of the humans). Still nothing about how will her survive long enough to deliver even a single "slap". And the basic Sister doesn't even have this ability.
As for the magic - you are having the terrible habit of misinterpreting my words. Of course this is a magical world, do you think I failed to notice it? However, you can not explain your poor decisions with "this is magic", it's just stupid and the direct opposite of the desired effect. When you place a cute, nicely dressed skinny lady in the middle of a carnage and say "Hey, don't worry, the magic will protect her" you shouldn't be surprised that some people would say "Yeah, right..."
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 22, 2011 03:30 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 16:13, 22 Feb 2011.
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I don't think there is any doubt that the Sister will be a vulnerable target. However who on earth is going to send the sisters on front-lines? 
There are many other units in heroes that have had low hit points and still been extremely useful. Hunter, Mage, Furies...
All these units died super easy, but were they useless? Of course not.
And with proper placement and the right tactic you could keep them alive without any bigger trouble.
Zenofex, did you hate to monk from Heroes 3 as well? he was just as "badly" dressed as the sister.
What do you want? Do you want the sister to be dressed in a full plate mail?
I don't even see the need for such armor for her, she's a healing support unit meant to be BEHIND the front-line.
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Cool, let it be 30 minutes, not that it matters at all. I'm only saying that it could take much more.
Then thank god they're not wearing an armor as well, just think how long that would take.
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I think this whole discussion is a bit misunderstood - I mean, think about how the game works, if you have a legion of Swordsmen, you still only see *one* picture of him - but it's not like their all clones. Just like with the rest of us, some of them must be tall, some short, some light haired, some dark haired, some gay - and some female, for all that matters. Their all just symbolised by the male image.
I agree and that is part of my point, currently the centaur and ghost for example are being represented by a female, but lore-wise there are male ghosts and centaurs as well ofc.(aka it doesn't matter....)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 22, 2011 04:15 PM |
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Zenofex, did you hate to monk from Heroes 3 as well? he was just as "badly" dressed as the sister.
How do you know that monks didn't wear mithril armor under their robes? 
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 22, 2011 04:18 PM |
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Because he only have 30 HP and and 7 defense...
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 22, 2011 04:24 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 16:25, 22 Feb 2011.
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Well they still aren't badly dressed
Now that's a sister :|
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 22, 2011 04:30 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 16:30, 22 Feb 2011.
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*sigh*
That picture makes me glad that the H6 sister looks like she does. :/
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Well they still aren't badly dressed
Neither is the Sister.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 22, 2011 04:37 PM |
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Well, they don't appear in H5 which takes place after H6,
so presumably they died out vv
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 22, 2011 04:44 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 16:44, 22 Feb 2011.
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Funny you should say that...
This is what I wrote on that matter a long time ago:
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The Priestess is just fine, just because she is on a battlefield does not mean she has to wear an armor. She is a support unit with healing and some ranged attack, no need for her to put on additional weight. Supposedly her role is to stand behind the unit lines and tending the wounded while protecting the troops from dark magic.
[...]
Yeah either magic or beauty. No creature can possibly harm a being so beautiful as the priestess the Humans rulers thought to themselves
(after 400 years the finally realized that maybe armor is the better choice so they transformed the poor girls into old battle monks)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 22, 2011 04:48 PM |
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Interesting... so did the old battle monks ever get their armor?
And was it mithril?
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted February 22, 2011 04:52 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 16:52, 22 Feb 2011.
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These were the "monks" I had in mind at that time:
  
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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