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| Thread: M&M Alignment Unit Upgrade System Yet another alternative for unit upgrading |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 04, 2011 03:10 PM |
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M&M Alignment Unit Upgrade System Yet another alternative for unit upgrading
Intro:
All Heroes games up to date had unified town structure (The exception are Heroes IV where you have to choose one building path over another). That means that all faction towns look exactly the same and they all provide similar units with similar unit upgrades. Incoming Heroes VI follows the custom.
Should it be that way forever? Another issue is should there be any logic behind available upgrades?
The idea is to have distinct Might and Magic alternative upgrades for all units. This achieved by aligning Unit Dwellings with either Forge (Might), Mage Guild (Magic) or Faction Unique Building (Faction Ideals\Philosophy\Values).
I.e. aligning Lich Tower with Mage Guild provides an upgrade for Lich an Archlich which has boosted mana and has additional Dark magic spells.
Aligning Vampire Manson with Forge provides Vampire Knight upgrade these Vampires armored in crimson warplate have boosted Might Attack\Defense and health. No Retaliation passive ability reflects their ferocious nature.
Below are details with more samples.
Thesis:
1. Three key buildings represent heart of any Faction city massive Forge reflects industrial Might, shiny Mage Guild reflects Faction Magic association, and Faction Unique Building reflects Faction Ideals (regardless of Might and Magic dichotomy).
Unit Dwellings provide units with designated roles (more on it here, incoming Heroes VI also has notable samples). Unit upgrades become possible only via aligning Unit Dwellings with one of key buildings.
Aligning is like attaching one building to another to form one jointed structure (or joined buildings). Aligning not only enables you to have a distinct look of the city - it mainly provides distinct upgrades for units that reflect either Might, Magic or Faction Ideal.
2. Overall there are 3 alternative upgrades per unit.
Might upgrades generally include Might Attack\Defense boosts, sometimes Damage\Health increase along with passive abilities.
Magic upgrades generally include Magic Attack\Defense and boosts, mana increase, and additional spells for casters.
Faction Ideal upgrades generally include specific Speed\Initiative\Damage\Health boosts, and grants unique active abilities.
How it works:
Ill use somewhat classic Faction units for sampling.
1. Vampire, flying fighter with Vampirism passive ability. Might-aligned upgrade, Vampire Knight, is covered above.
Magic-aligned upgrade - Vampire Adept with Manipulation passive ability these accurate gentlemen with glinting eyes are masters of Mind-affection magic. During attack there is a 40% chance to cast random mind-affecting spell (Hypnotize, Blind, Frenzy and etc.). Vampire Adept also has Speed bonus.
Ideal-aligned upgrade - Vampire Lord with Challenge active ability bound with enormous arrogance these Vampires seek notable and worthy opponents. Once Challenge is issued, Vampire Lord will always attack marked unit with maximum damage. Vampirism ability is enhanced by 5% each time Vampire Lord attacks Challenged unit. Challenge can be issued again only after Challenged unit is dead!
2. Hunter, shooter with classic Double-shot passive ability.
Might-aligned upgrade Master Hunter with Cripple passive ability pretty obvious that skillful hunters know well where to shoot in order to cripple the beast. Targeted unit receives 10% penalty for initiative and speed. Might Attack\Defense and Initiative are boosted.
Magic-aligned upgrade Warden with Equilibrium passive ability when vile magic threats to disturb the natural balance of Irrolan forests, Warden steps in ready to preserve it. Wardens shot cancels the effect of any positive spell on targeted unit. Cancellation ratio is 1 to 1, though strongest spells are cancelled firstly. Warden also has minor health and speed bonus.
Ideal-aligned upgrade Monster Slayer with Dead Eye Shot active ability these silent elves hunt the biggest prey available. When activated Dead Eye Shot enables Monster Slayers to negate 50% of Might Defense of targeted Large creature. Monster Slayers also have damage bonus.
3. Ghost, flying support fighter with H5-style Incorporeal passive ability.
Ideal-aligned upgrade Vengeful Spirits with Possession activated ability with enough numerical advantage these constantly whispering undead may break the will of the living and possess their bodies! With ratio of 1,5 to 1, Spirits may possess any living Core unit. With ratio of 2 to 1, Spirits may possess any living Elite unit. With ratio of 3 to 1, Spirits may possess any living Champion unit. Spirits leave wasted bodies after the end of the battle.
4. Cavalier, fast fighter with H5-style Charge passive ability.
Magic-aligned upgrade Redeemer with Malevolence Magnet passive ability sworn to redeem dark past filled with court intrigues and sins of debauchery, noble sons known as Redeemers willfully cover their shields and armor with malign runes that attract evil magic. Any negative spell directed at friendly unit within two cells is redirected on Redeemers. Redeemers also have minor health and initiative bonus.
Comments and critique are welcomed.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 04, 2011 04:14 PM |
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I already posted an idea of a system like this.Here
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 04, 2011 04:38 PM |
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I really liek this!
if I may come in with ideas for some classical creatures as well:
1. Minotaur - A melee unit with good health & damage for it's level, whatever it may be. Armed with a two-handed Axe. It's heavy blows can ignroe part of enemy defense.
Might Upgrade: Maze Warrior. The Maze Warrior is a strong unit, armed with two battle axes instead of one.
Stat boost: small boosts for defense & Attack & initiative.
Abilities: Double Attack (Strikes again after enemy retaliation) and Block (has a chance to block part of the damage of physical melee strikes)
Magic Upgrade: Minotaur Shaman. The Sinister Minotaur Shamans perform dark arts. They do no longer wield axes, but long heavy staffs.
Stat boosts: Health & Initiative, while Speed & damage are reduced.
Abilites: Cursing Attack (A strike by this unit inflicts "curse" upon the enemy unit)
Faction Specific Upgrade: I see Minotaurs in Dungeon, as a faction humanoid-hybrids and shadowy creatures. Their faction-specific upgrade is the Jailor. These cruel Warriors usually guard, torture and execute prisoners, slaves and other victims, but in times of war come to aid the Dungeon armies.
Stat changes: Increased damage, reduced speed.
Abilities: Slaughter (When a Jailor stack kills an enemy in melee attack, they will strike a second time, before the enemy has chance to retaliate); Cruelty (there is a chance that enemies struck by jailors run back a few squares in fear of their cruelty. Does not work on the usual fear- and mind-immune units)
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ICTC announced
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MattII 
Legendary Hero
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posted March 04, 2011 08:49 PM |
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Not really in favour, it's too restrictive having only might and magic upgrades, when a unit could as easily get decently different offensive and defensive upgrades.
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Minnakht
Known Hero
Green eyed monster
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posted March 04, 2011 10:54 PM |
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While the idea sounds interesting, it also sounds like a lot of work, honestly. Three upgrades for every creature... it'd be pretty hellish to balance out in the end as well.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 04, 2011 10:59 PM |
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I love this idea! Might and Magic upgrades sound great, and would replace alternate upgrades!
Already there are Might and Magic Attack and Defense in H6, and combining these two mechanics could create some interesting strategies (like Might damage deals more damage to Magic defense and vice versa)
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maeerol
Hired Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 01:54 AM |
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Edited by maeerol at 01:54, 05 Mar 2011.
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Excelent idea! Placing that in the real game would be awesome...
So, I used this idea in some creatures:
elf:
hunter(male)/huntress(female)
might - sharpshooter(male/shooter)/amazon(female/melee)
magic - druid(male/earth-summoning)/keeper(female/earth-air)
Succubus:
succubi(female)/inccubi(male)
might - lillim(female/melee)/overseer(male/melee)
magic - temptress(female/fire-curse)/hell envoy(male/fire-bless)
dwarf:
defender(male/melee)/slinger(female/shooter)
might - squire(male/melee)/harpooner(female/shooter)
magic - runepriest(male/fire-air)/blacksmith(female/earth-bless)
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 02:21 AM |
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Now try coming up with some upgrades for the Hellhound, Unicorn, Dragon or some other non-humanoid beast.
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Minnakht
Known Hero
Green eyed monster
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posted March 05, 2011 01:47 PM |
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Non-humanoid? I wanted to do Treants, but...
hm
what non-humanoids are there anyway...
Ah, fine. Hellhounds.
Might upgrade:
Multihound
Those malformed, horrendous beasts are a result of experiments including chaotic ingenuity, lots of metal bands, studs and the finest demon surgeons. With six tails, six legs, six eyes, metal plating with thousands of spikes, at least four digestive tracts and so many burning spirits keeping the things alive, as well at three heads, those abominations strike fear, laughter, but most often both into the hearts of whatever goes against them, stopping them from retaliating either way. Being so unstable, they can't run as quickly as normal hellhounds and explode when killed. However, with their improved metal claws and multitude of heads, they are much fiercer attackers, and the metal plating and lots of organs to spare makes them much harder to damage, even if not so much harder to kill.
Magic upgrade:
Shifthound
On the rare occasions when a demon develops his abilities of Light magic, he is taken by the numerous possibilities. Shifthounds are a result of those enthusiasts out of action. Magically modified to hold magic better, then enchanted to the point of nearly breaking, Shifthounds are capable of breathing hellfire as easily as a dragon breathes his own natural weapon, are blindingly fast due to a permanent Haste effect upon them, and have developed Teleportitis - a condition that is their namesake. The amount of magic imbued in their bodies pushes away all other magic that would change them, making them immune to blessings and curses alike.
Morals upgrade:
Worger
There are no rules. That is what Worgers portray. Hellhounds are given collars that let them be located, then set free to run in the lands freely. The outcast life of eating whatever and whoever they find is a school better than the training in kennels... arguably. Many hellhounds don't survive - those that do become Worgers after they're located and taken back, having grown into truly savage beasts, feared by all wildlife and peasants unfortunate enough to ever run into one.
The training out of hell makes Worgers grow wilder than any hellhound would ever be, and they develop an experience-fueled, personal system of hunting in small packs. In the fray of a battle, they sometimes enter trances that make them uncontrollable, but even more fearsome.
Actual abilities:
A multihound has higher Attack and Defence than the others, as well as slightly more initiative, but lower HP and speed. They have Multi-headed Attack, No Retaliation, and cast a low-damage Fireball on themselves that they are immune to, with the damage being linear and depending on their numbers.
A shifthound has lower Attack, Defence and HP than the others, practically not receiving any improvement from the upgrade. They however have much higher Speed and Initiative. They have Fire Breath, have Haste cast on themselves at the beginning of every fight, are immune to all non-damage effects of spells, and teleport to a random spot at the start of each turn of theirs. If your hero is somehow competent (Spellpower or Knowledge or Light Magic, not sure which), the teleportation destination can be controlled. Sometimes, Teleportitis activates right after a shifthound attacks, not letting the enemy fight back, but potentially untangling enemy shooters.
A worger has the highest HP of those, and Attack on par with the multihound - the other stats are improved as well, but not as much. Those have Pack Down, which causes them to split into 2-4 smaller stacks, and Trance, which activates randomly and makes worgers uncontrollable for 2-4 turns, giving them boosts to Attack, Luck and Defence, giving them No Retaliation, as well as not taking up any time (like Imbue Arrow).
This is written for H5 hellhounds for some reason
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maeerol
Hired Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 04:16 PM |
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Edited by maeerol at 16:17, 05 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
Now try coming up with some upgrades for the Hellhound, Unicorn, Dragon or some other non-humanoid beast.
Ok... lets do with the dragon and the alignment:
dragon(male/caster-fire)/dragoness(female/melee/flyer)
tears - elrath avatar(male/caster-light)/sun daughter(female/melee/flyer)
blood - blood sun(male/caster-light-fire)/avenger mother(female/melee/flyer)
the treant too...
treant(male/caster-earth)/dryad(female/shooter)
tears - wood guardian(male/melee/summoner)/entwife(female/shooter/summoner)
blood - revenger(male/melee)/mother nature(female/melee/earth magic)
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 05, 2011 05:16 PM |
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hold on...dragoness? O.O that goes to far, sorry.
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ICTC announced
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Minnakht
Known Hero
Green eyed monster
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posted March 05, 2011 09:49 PM |
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I don't know why, really. Dragons don't seem to be sexually dimorphic, so it won't even have much of a change in graphics.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:24 PM |
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Yeah, well most big cats don't have a lot of sexual dimorphism either, then you look at lions...
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 05, 2011 10:25 PM |
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so you'd liek a "Red dragoness" creature? I personaly, hate the word, I must say. Dragoness...sounds like "baroness", something soft and such...not a fearsome dragon, female or not...
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ICTC announced
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:43 PM |
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Margaret Thatcher was a baroness, and as for fierce dragonesses, how about the one in T. Pratchett's Guards Guards or the one in Shrek?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 05, 2011 10:45 PM |
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I think there are fierce dragonesses, of course...jsut I'D still call them dragons^^ like I call a dog dog^^ or a gryphon gryphon. it's asexual for me^^
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ICTC announced
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 10:51 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:00, 05 Mar 2011.
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Yeah, but would you call a lioness a lion if you already had a (male) lion in your lineup? Also, I don't see why we need to prefix dragoness with 'red' we could as easily make the basic unit brown (drakeling) and upgrade to either black (dragon) or red (dragoness). You could even give them differing roles, with the females being weaker than the males, but casting curses when they attack.
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Minnakht
Known Hero
Green eyed monster
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posted March 05, 2011 10:53 PM |
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Because lions are dimorphic, with their mane and such. Dragons aren't at all, being about ad dimorphic as horses.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted March 05, 2011 11:07 PM |
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also i would not make untis whioch are the same but just one male one female...
so I would do let's say red dragona s a male and green dragon as a female or such^^
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ICTC announced
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2011 11:16 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:19, 05 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
Because lions are dimorphic, with their mane and such.
Lions are dimorphic, tigers aren't, but the two can still produce viable offspring (males are sterile, but females are fertile), so there's no reason to suggest that some dragon types can't be dimorphic.
But this is getting off topic now, so let's end it here.
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