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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 02:54 AM |
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Well sure, when you drink your 3 liters of vodka, you smoke less in the 2 weeks you lay unconscious. You da man!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 03:43 AM |
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In fact I didn't plan anything, I love smoking and did not feel guilty at all. I was stacking my clothes before traveling and I noticed I don't have anymore cigarettes. First reaction was "don't forget to buy", but then got relax and told myself "quit smoking and you will experience that famous 180° erection one day".
Maths always fascinated me. And here the decision was made.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 25, 2013 04:00 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Well sure, when you drink your 3 liters of vodka, you smoke less in the 2 weeks you lay unconscious. You da man!
Not really. even if you the drink like hell the hangover will wear off in 3 -4 days tops. And these days I only drink beer, my hard-drinking years are way behind me. Not to smoke is much easier than what people tell you, most of those stories are psychological. Just try it if you dont take my word for it, try not to feel in need and you wont.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 04:10 AM |
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Ok, I will not snow about anymore. It is eeeeeeaaaaasyyyyyy...artu diiiiiiid iiiit, fred's granma diiiiid iiiiit, I caaan toooo
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 25, 2013 04:13 AM |
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I am not the only one Sal. You can make it too, dont be afraid to walk the path and let the light guide you.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 25, 2013 04:27 AM |
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You can't remove something like that out of your life without replacing it with something, unless of course you want to deal with the rift that it carves into you. (which is I assume what you've been experiencing)
Find out why you started smoking, and why you continue, and then find out why you want to quit, weigh the two up and then decide, this should give the resolve that you need. Only attempt to quit if you truly desire to do so.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 25, 2013 09:48 AM |
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Salamandre said:
Since I moved for vacancy in some very isolated area without access to market or anything I decided to get rid of a 20 yo addiction. And no little, but 30 cigarettes a day, every day.
First day was piece of cake. Second day, every hour or so I had this reflex to pull hands for the package, left/right, again and again. From third day, couldn't anymore sleep, I had some glow-lamp like tattooed on my brain and every oxygen breath was like fire. Fourth day, digestive troubles started and spent the whole day crooked. Fifth day, all the previous effects doubled in intensity and started to act randomly and chaotically.
20 days remaining and can't move out. Will have fun. 
I assume a remote area has shrooms and all kinds of plants to take care of finding an alternative addiction.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 25, 2013 09:59 AM |
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But if you make it back to this side know that it will never really go away. It will always stay there at the back of your head, reminding you.
I stopped smoking around the time I registered here. It was part of a larger direction of change in life so it was the easiest part of that but I hadn't smoked for much longer than three years anyway. I still smoked occasionally at bars and parties some years back but haven't smoked at all since they banned smoking at public bars.
It did turn me nicely chipper for a year or so. 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2013 10:50 AM |
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Artu is right, it's psychological.
I've been a smoker for 30 years, very heavy. In that time I've been trying to quit a couple of times, but the real problem seemed to have been that I didn't really want to quit. I wanted to quit for rational reasons - like, intellectually, yes, it's bad for health, it's expensive, and the full ash trays suck -, but not in my heart, and so when I went cold turkey, always the same thing than Sal, basically: first day, piece of cake; second day, smoker reflexes and an inner nervousness; third and next days muscle cramps and a sleeping problem.
One cigarette, and all that would stop.
Anyway, 13 years ago I started to see things in a different light and realized something for ME, and that realization was in short that I would be a lot happier NOT smoking the 30+ I did then, because not-smoking as a habit would give me a lot more than smoking, and that's when I simply quit, never looked back and never had any adverse effect then.
I just stopped, no problem, no adverse effects, and, yes, I WAS a lot happier after that.
You have to realize one thing here Sal. What you are experience now is your brain trying to trick you into smoking again, and that's only possible because your unconscious mind isn't really wanting to quit it. On that level you just like smoking too much to simply give it up.
Be that as it may, this won't help you, because you need to find your own way here. Cold turkey or not - two weeks are enough, after that turkey effects are over. Except, if you are actually do not really want to quit that doesn't matter necause the mental craving will stay. Like with my Mum. I have no idea how often my Mum already quit smoking, only to start again after 3 months or 6 months or even a year again. She just WANTS to smoke, because for her nothing is better than a cuppa coffee and a smoke to relax and enjoy her time, and since she shows no adverse health effects, astonishingly enough, although she abuses caffein and nicotine for something like half a century and more, well. Let her smoke away.
But this is a battle fought exclusively in the mind, Sal, and the bottom line is, you shouldn't even try to stop, because if your decision is based on willpower alone you will fail. There is a reason why smokers have the highest recidivism rate.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 11:39 AM |
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Oh is not really a battle, battles are vs lethal illnesses, this is a joke. Yes, physically I have some quirks but I made it sure I can't put my hands on tobacco for at least 30 days, and should be enough. I just found pathetic how the body tries to fight against the reason.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 25, 2013 11:42 AM |
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@JJ
Similar story in my family, grandpa was old-school, at 35 he decides to quit, for three weeks he carries his lighter and a pack in his shirt pocket without lighting a single cigarette. End of three weeks, he gives them away to a friend and never looks back. My father on the other hand, is just like your mom. He quit numerous times just to start back in a few months. The longest he sustained it was after his by-pass heart surgery like about a year. Since their genes are almost identical, I'm pretty sure it's about how you approach to it. That's why I applied the "only while drinking" rule to myself, I knew I liked smoking with drinking too much, I didn't want the deciding to quit process turn into a loose screw revolving in vain like my father's example. So I kept an open room for smoking while drinking and was able to quit just like grandpa.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2013 12:26 PM |
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I understand exactly what you mean. My "hole" so-to-speak is, that I stopped smoking TOBACCO (completely).
I remember a time where I fondly thought about how smoking is real fun only when there is an actual kick (which basically stops with cigarette #2), so I had a month or two where I would smoke one cigarette only per day, to experience the slight vertigo and all - but of course the real "benefits" of smoking would get the better of me, and eventually I'd fall back to puffing away.
@ Sal
No matter how many safety belts you apply - if you will miss smoking on any important internal level, you are bound to start again. There are so many excuses and opportunities - every other guy can tell you a story how there was this hard time, when the girlfriend left or Grandma died or there was this important test or exam and they just couldn't help themselves and light one. It doesn't work with willpower alone, Sal: in the long run you need something more than that.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 02:19 PM |
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Well there is no universal truth about how to get rid of addictions. I know people who struggled with tobacco and the fight was long and heinous. They suffered a lot at start but years later they are done with. Sure the psychological side is important, as with everything we come along; but it does not suffice to say "I am happy without" if you still carry tobacco in your pockets.
Hard to say how addictions can be fought, empty phrases as "hard Will prevails", "God is my Saviour", "viva Benito" are just dust. In the end it is a result of various fences you built around your addiction. How solid they are, but also how fine you feel after experiencing the positive effects.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 25, 2013 02:33 PM |
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Quote:
But it does not suffice to say "I am happy without" if you still carry tobacco in your pockets
That was to challenge his own will power, if in the beginning you can make it like that, the rest won't be a problem at all. You know like dancers practicing with weights tied up to their arms and stuff...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2013 02:45 PM |
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No, you are wrong. It's comparable with repenting. 
If you really are CONVINCED in your heart, then it's easy. HOW you will become convinced - that's an individual thing.
If you are not, though, if you are, like, I'd like to smoke on, but it will be better when I stop - that's working on sheer rational willpower versus craving, and that's a fight against yourself, that you are bound to lose eventually.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 25, 2013 03:08 PM |
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So basically you're saying that if one is not convinced in his heart he can't get rid of addictions. Most doctors will laugh of this assertion, as "convinced in his heart" can not be quantified, it can start with a straight rational decision or going fanatically berserk.
You can force things in many ways, having to wait for some "divine inspiration" convincing your "heart" could also be a pretext to never stop.
Hey, I found most of ideas here interesting and helpful, but since you started posting, I feel negativity and fatality. I know you don't have such intentions, but sometimes you are just maddening. Of course, I was b*tching about negative effects, they are not so hard to pass through, I had much worse things to endure. There is no comeback from that, as in every project I had.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2013 04:28 PM |
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Salamandre said:
So basically you're saying that if one is not convinced in his heart he can't get rid of addictions. Most doctors will laugh of this assertion, as "convinced in his heart" can not be quantified, it can start with a straight rational decision or going fanatically berserk.
You can force things in many ways, having to wait for some "divine inspiration" convincing your "heart" could also be a pretext to never stop.
Hey, I found most of ideas here interesting and helpful, but since you started posting, I feel negativity and fatality. I know you don't have such intentions, but sometimes you are just maddening. Of course, I was b*tching about negative effects, they are not so hard to pass through, I had much worse things to endure. There is no comeback from that, as in every project I had.
No, I don't talk about ADDICTIONS, I talk about SMOKING (smoking has similarities with obesity.
With other addictions it's different.
Cigarette smoking is addictive because it makes use of a trick to allow the smoker to give themselves a positive kick whenever they desire (that's the similarity to obesity and eating).
Nicotine is absorbed extremely fast and the very slight effects of nicotine withdrawal are setting in a couple of minutes after your last smoke. A smoker is basically all the time "on edge", and when you smoke a cigarette all withdrawal symptoms disappearm which is experienced as a positive effect.
I like to compare that with an artificial itch: it's like cultivating a permanent itch, because you so like the effect of scratching the itch.
There are a couple more things, the ritual (rituals are important with addictions), but that's the "mechanism" that is pretty effectful. Eating habits are working the same way, mind you, that's why people who stop smoking gain so much weight fast: a) first of all their metabolism slows and then b) they tend to replace the mechanic with another one.
Most smokers have a problem to understand that; they do not smoke because of some "taste" or whatever - they smoke to scratch themselves.
For me this realization worked well - I do not want to bang my head against the wall, just to enjoy how the pain disappears. I rather like to go for something "real".
For others this does NOT work, though.
I tell you this, because it MAY help you to actually understand the problem. The "scratching" is a rather REAL effect: the smoker sees ONLY how nice the scratching is, but not how silly the permanent itching is. They can live nicely with the short periods of itching between the nice scratching sensation, that allows them to subjectively enjoying a relative high.
You have to decide for yourself whether you want to be a Pavlov dog or not.
That said, I don't judge anyone who want to stop and can't. It IS difficult, I know that. I have some back problems, and there was a time when I would get up in the night because I had slept in the wrong position and had to relax the kinks first, and I actually liked reading the morning paper and smoke a cigarette then. It was the best cigarette of the day, actually.
In fact there is no reason for negativity at all. The nature of addiction is, that it's hard to overcome it. That's because an addiction gives the addict something they really crave for.
The only thing I'm saying is that to really BEAT an addiction - and not force yourself into a battle of your willpower against your craving - you have to somewhat "restructure" your priorities, because a well-loved "habit" leaves some kind of hole when you stop it, no matter whether it's an addiction or a hobby.
That's comparable to losing weight. Most everyone can and will summon the willpower to eventually lose weight, because after a time the stomach gets smaller and so on. The problem is - NOT GAINING WEIGHT AGAIN WHEN YOU ARE FINISHED.
However, you WILL gain weight again, if you simply continue your old eating habits again. To keep the weight you must change your eating habits and that means you must change a part of your life that is important to you, because otherwise you wouldn't have become fat in the first place.
But whether you pick a sport or to switch from sweets to fruit or whatever else you do - that's up to you.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 25, 2013 05:26 PM |
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Maybe, JJ, but everything psychological is ultimately chemical.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2013 05:45 PM |
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I'm not sure whether that is right.I also don't know what your point is? Maybe I'm right ... BUT?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 25, 2013 07:39 PM |
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In the broadest sense, anything that happens in our brain is chemical but I think a psychological conditioning eventually causing a chemical reaction in the brain and a heavy drug causing symptoms of addiction by purely chemical reasons are quite different things.
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This thread is pages long: 
