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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Factions: Race or Theme based?
Thread: Factions: Race or Theme based? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 25, 2011 03:27 PM

Poll Question:
Factions: Race or Theme based?

Today's question!

Should Factions be Race or Theme based??



Responses:
Race based!
Theme based!
Mixed! 50%-50%
 View Results!

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Nitramar
Nitramar


Adventuring Hero
posted March 25, 2011 04:36 PM

I voted for mixed. I really liked the atmosphere of the old theme based factions, but on the other hand race based factions do seem more solid.
The best solution so far has been a combination between race and theme, like homm5 sylvan for instance, with a leading race occupying about half of the creature tiers and the rest being dedicated to "beasts".

I think the most important thing is not to have too many "intelligent" races in a faction, since this tends to make a faction feel incoherent. This, I think, is evident in the new sanctuary faction. Practically all of its creatures (save kirin and maybe kappa) seem like they could have their own race based faction.

I think an ideal solution would be something like this:
All factions have a complete line-up of soldiers belonging to one or possibly two races. Additionally, each castle is able to recruit an assortment of neutrally aligned wild beasts (non race creatures such as unicorns, griffins, wyverns etc.), the composition of which depends on the terrain (eg. any castle located in swamp terrain can recruit hydras regardless of what faction the castle belongs to). This would not only be a great compromise, but would also give a more important role to neutral creatures and even allow for more creatures in the game.      

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 25, 2011 04:43 PM

I voted for a Theme based!
I somehow feel HoMM should have Theme based Factions rather than Race based. The only exeption is Haven faction..
I think that 2 creatures of same race are more then enough..
For example Sylvan faction in HoMM5 - remove dancers, and i'd love this faction..
Fortress was full of Dwarves and i did not like it!
same as for Stronghold full of Orcs.. Ogres, Behemoths and Trolls were definetely missing from the line up!
There are too many interesting creatures to lose them in sake of having Racial creatures in the line-up..
So once again i am for the Theme based line up!

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted March 25, 2011 04:47 PM

The ideal for me would be for Haven, Stronghold, Sylvan, Dungeon, Sanctuary, Fortress H5, Fortress H3 to be race based and Conflux, Academy, Inferno, Necropolis to be theme based.
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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 25, 2011 04:56 PM

Quote:
The ideal for me would be for Haven, Stronghold, Sylvan, Dungeon, Sanctuary, Fortress H5, Fortress H3 to be race based and Conflux, Academy, Inferno, Necropolis to be theme based.


Haven - agreed
Academy - agreed
Necropolis - agreed
Infeno - agreed (even though they can be all called demons)
Sanctuary - don't really know to be honest
Conflux - disagreed (they are all elementals)
Dungeon - disagreed (way too many interesting chaotic creatures to give it up for dark elves, which were all pretty much boring)
Sylvan - disagreed (nature faction can have a lot of awesome creatures, why limit to elves only)
Fortress H5 - agreed ONLY if they reduce dwarfs
Fortress H3 - which race would you offer???

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted March 25, 2011 04:59 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The ideal for me would be for Haven, Stronghold, Sylvan, Dungeon, Sanctuary, Fortress H5, Fortress H3 to be race based and Conflux, Academy, Inferno, Necropolis to be theme based.


Haven - agreed
Academy - agreed
Necropolis - agreed
Infeno - agreed (even though they can be all called demons)
Sanctuary - don't really know to be honest
Conflux - disagreed (they are all elementals)
Dungeon - disagreed (way too many interesting chaotic creatures to give it up for dark elves, which were all pretty much boring)
Sylvan - disagreed (nature faction can have a lot of awesome creatures, why limit to elves only)
Fortress H5 - agreed ONLY if they reduce dwarfs
Fortress H3 - which race would you offer???


Well, I don't take elemental as one race but four maybe more. So a theme based faction of elemental or elemental-like creatures would work for it.

For Fortress H3 is Lizardmen ofcourse. Kick the Gnolls out, I don't care.


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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted March 25, 2011 05:03 PM

i'd leave lizardman, and put a humanoid faction instead..
something swamp related.. who practice witchcraft...
to fit the Ashan, could say that it was another experiment of Wizards, and now they revolt against their creators

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zazu1
zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted March 25, 2011 06:04 PM

LoL. do i have to resurrect my race vs theme thread again?

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 25, 2011 08:38 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 20:38, 25 Mar 2011.

Racial Purity Period.

Not trolling. I am a great advocate of the Racial Basis of a faction.
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Iron from Ice.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted March 25, 2011 10:05 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 22:12, 25 Mar 2011.

And I'm a great advocate of mixed line-ups.
For example Just like Kodial said.(man that guy, he has some awesome opinions.
(even if I don't want some of his factions to be race-based....))
That factions like Haven and Stronghold should be race-based, and factions like Dungeon, Sylvan and Academy should be theme-based.
And then of course there should be factions that are everything in between.

Simply, a heroes game where ALL factions have a race-based line-up are boring, and at the same time a Heroes games where ALL factions only have theme-based line-ups would be super boring as well.

Balance, balance in all things, and the world will have harmony.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted March 25, 2011 10:44 PM

Quote:
For Fortress H3 is Lizardmen ofcourse. Kick the Gnolls out, I don't care.

No way. Gnolls are awesome and interesting creatures, just as capable of having a race of their own as the stupid boring Orcs, Dwarves, or Humans. I agree that if my favourite H3 Fortress was to come back (hopefully), Lizardmen are a good idea for racial creatures (2 or 3, not 5!), but Gnolls should be left, adding a "tribal" element to the faction.
Anyways, I know Gnolls were the only "warm blooded" creatures in H3 Fortress, but I like them generally, even outside of HOMM, and if not in H6 Fortress, squeeze them in somewhere else, like Dungeon I was also hoping they'll have Gnolls in H6 Stronghold, but no, stupid useless Goblins again Not to mention the Thunderbirds, Behemoths and Wyvern missing...

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 25, 2011 11:09 PM

Quote:
The ideal for me would be for Haven, Stronghold, Sylvan, Dungeon, Sanctuary, Fortress H5, Fortress H3 to be race based and Conflux, Academy, Inferno, Necropolis to be theme based.

This.
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Minnakht
Minnakht


Known Hero
Green eyed monster
posted March 26, 2011 01:29 AM

I'd say that each faction should have one dominant race in it and the rest can be filled in with war beasts or sub-races. Unless the factions decide to treat themselves as equals...

Inferno is an exception - it has only one race in it, but the members are so varied it's justified. In such cases, it'd be okay.

Sylvan was okay - had some resident elves, had some beasts. The new Haven is pretty okay too - humans and allied creatures of Elrath.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 26, 2011 03:59 AM

Mixed, generally 2-4 race based creatures (2-3 for a single race 1-2 each for two races) with the rest being theme-creatures, although I wouldn't hold to that rule for every faction.

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evinin
evinin


Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
posted March 26, 2011 08:13 AM

I've also voted mixed. It's better in every possible way because a faction made only by race is boring (like a human faction or a dwarven faction...). A faction made by theme is much better but it still needs some race-based creatures in it.
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 26, 2011 12:51 PM

Mixed.

I think that two creatures based on the main race is enough.

Look at Haven, personally I think that the town would be a lot more interesting if they replaced half of those humans. The whole theme of Haven as a medieval castle has always been boring to me, and in future games I hope that they will dare to set a new theme to Haven. Perhaps a tropical, even piratey theme.

I think that most of the times, a cool beast that fits the theme of the faction is much cooler than a human with a club.

Two racial units + many racial heroes (NOT ALL) is enough to make the players understand that those people are the main race of that faction.

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted March 26, 2011 02:03 PM

I accidentally voted nothing^^ but I wanted theme based...also...this discussion will NEVER end XD
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ICTC announced

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Reshkay
Reshkay

Tavern Dweller
posted March 26, 2011 03:07 PM

Mixed, all the way.

As everyone else said, having just race based Towns would but a little borning.

Though I have always liked H3 Fortress,

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted March 26, 2011 07:51 PM

I believe in mixed option,though we would have a "racial" Haven and "theme" necropolis and inferno.We can do this by adding a "basic" tier,recruitable from castles and halls.
Basic units have these stats(compared to h3 and 5):
(v.hall)->T1
(t.hall)->T2
(c.hall)->T3
(capitol)->T3-T4
(fort)->T2-T3
(citadel)->T3-T4
(castle)->T4-T5
Also
Core units answer to t3
Elite units to t5
Champion units to t7

Castle
80 race-20 theme
BASIC:
Swordsman(fort)->Master Swordsman(citadel)->Crusader(castle)
Militia(v.hall)->Spearman(t.hall)->Pikeman(c.hall)->Halberder(capitol)
CORE:
Hound->Warhound or Armored Hound
Clubman->Maceman or Flagellant
Bowman->Longbowman or Crossbowman
ELITE:
Griffin->Armored Griffin or Celestal Griffin
Cavalier->Champion or Paladin
Glory->Luminous Glory or Searing Glory
CHAMPION:
Angel->Archangel or Throne

Inferno
BASIC:
Possessed(fort)->Maniac(citadel)->Demented(castle)
(humans,not the h6 ones.Possesed is peasant with pitchfork.Maniac is warrior in l.armor with a torch and shield.Demented is like maniac,with 2 axes and a mail shirt)
Demon(v.hall)->Horned Demon(t.hall)->Winged Demon(c.hall)->Arch Demon(capitol)
CORE:
Imp->Familiar or Manabinder
Gog->Magog or Ember Gog
Hell Hound->Cerberus or Orthus
ELITE:
Hell Steed->Nightmare or Terror
Succubus->Lilim or Mistress
Efreet->Efreet Sultan or Efreet Raja
CHAMPION:
Pit Fiend->Balrog or Abyssal

Rampart
BASIC:
Knife Fighter(fort)->Blade Dancer(citadel)->Sword Master(Castle)
Faerie(v.hall)->Pixie(t.hall)->Sprite(c.hall)->Sidhe(capitol)
CORE:
Wood Elf->Wood Archer or High Elf
Pegasus->Silver Pegasus or Solstice Pegasus
Centaur->Centaur Captain or Centaur Maradeur
ELITE:
Marksman->Sharpshooter or Deadeye
Unicorn->War Unicorn or Alabaster Unicorn
Druid->Archdruid or Druid Elder
CHAMPION:
Dendroid->Dendroid Soldier or Dendroid Warden

Academy
BASIC:
Apprentice(Fort)->Mage(Citadel)->Archmage(castle)
H3 ones.Apprentice wears a red shirt,no robe, no beard and a small wand)
Murderer(v.hall)->Hashashin(t.hall)->Master Hashashin(c.hall)->Al-Hashashin(Capital)
NOTE:Al-Hashashin means Divine Assasin
CORE:
Gremlin->Master Gremlin or Gremlin Arsonist
Stone Golem->Granite Golem or Marble Golem
Gargoyle->Malachite Gargoyle or Lazurite Gargoyle
ELITE:
Genie->Master Genie or Storm Genie
Cataphract->Golden Cataphract or Immortal
Lamasu->Royal Lamasu or High Lamasu
CHAMPION:
Giant->Titan or Colossus

Necropolis
BASIC:
Black Guard(fort)->Death Guard(citadel)->Dread Guard(castle)
Walking Dead(v.hall)->Cadaver(t.hall)->Zombie(c.hall)->Ghoul(capitol)
CORE:
Skeleton->Bone Guard or Skeletal Marksman
Ghost->Wraith or Barrow Wight
Carrion Bird->Carrion Crow or Plague Vulture
ELITE:
Vampire->Vampire Lord or Nosferatu
Lich->Archlich or Power Lich
Black Knight->Death Knight or Dread Knight
CHAMPION:
Bone Dragon->Ghost Dragon or Rotten Wyrm

Fortress
BASIC:
Shieldguard(fort)->Noble Guard(citadel)->King's Guard(castle)
Dwarf(v.hall)->Miner(t.hall)->Axeman(c.hall)->Champion(capitol)
CORE:
Axethrower->Axe Master or Harpooner
Snowscaper->Shaman or Cyromancer
(frostlings)
Boar->Battle Boar or Irontusk Boar
ELITE:
Rune Priest->Fire Priest or Storm Priest
Brawler->Berserker or Battlerager
Bear->White Bear or Grizzly Bear
CHAMPION:
Wyrm->Nidhogg or Fafnir

Ziggurat
BASIC:
Gnoll(fort)->Gnoll Poacher(citadel)->Gnoll Raider(Castle)
Lizardman(v.hall)->Lizard Warrior(t.hall)->Lizard Archer(c.hall)->Lizard Sniper(Capitol)
CORE:
Serpent Fly->Dragon Fly or Wyvern Fly
Raptor->Battle Raptor or Velociraptor
Giant Spider->Poision Spider or Black Spider
ELITE:
Hydra->Chaos Hydra or Scylla
Basilisk->Greater Basilisk or Basilisk King
Shaman->High Shaman or Herbalist
CHAMPION:
Wyvern->Wyvern Monarch or Green Dragon

[purple]Dungeon

BASIC:
Blade Maiden(fort)->Blood Maiden(citadel)->Blood Sister(castle)
Scout(v.hall)->Assasin->(t.hall)->Stalker(c.hall)->Master Assasin(capitol)
CORE:
Troglodyte->Infernal Troglodyte or Amphibian Troglodyte
Harpy->Harpy Hag or Harpy Crone
Beholder->Evil Eye or Gazer
ELITE:
Minotaur->Minotaur King or Minotaur Slayer
Manticore->Greater Manticore or Scorpiore
Shadow Witch->Shadow Matriarch or Black Witch
CHAMPION:
Red Dragon->Black Dragon or Crimson Wyvern

[brown]Stronghold
BASIC:
Warrior(fort)->Mauler(citadel)->Warmonger(castle)
Goblin(v.hall)->Goblin Looter(t.hall)->Hobgoblin(c.hall)->Goblin King(Capitol)
CORE:
Bandit->Brigant or Raider
Wolf Rider->Warg Rider or Werewolf
Shaman->Dreamwalker or Skyspeaker
ELITE:
Troll->War Troll or Siege Troll
Roc->Thunderbird or Archeoptheryx
Cyclop->Cyclop King or Cyclop Smasher
CHAMPION:
Behemoth->Ancient Behemoth or Winter Behemoth

[teal]Sanctuary
BASIC:
Ronin->Samurai(citadel)->Kensei(castle)
Nagin(v.hall)->Noble Nagin(t.hall)->Nagin Mistress(c.hall)->Nagin Queen(capital)
CORE:
Kappa->Kappa Shoya or Lurker
Cobra->Great Cobra or Royal Cobra
Kshatryia->Blessed Kshatryia or Lordly Kshatryia
ELITE:
Giant Squid->Kraken or Watcher
(Giant squid is a giant squid.Kraken is a bigger giant squid with carapace while watcher is like in LotR)
Great Turtle->Stoneshell Turtle or Island Turtle
Brahmin->Sanyasi or Tantric
CHAMPION:
Sea Serpent->Dragon Eel or Jormungandr

Conflux
In Conflux,Theurgist->Elementalist->Planeswalker tree si stronger than other towns,so,for balance issues,conflux has 4 Core and 2 Elite.
BASIC:
Theurgist(fort)->Elementalist(citadel)->Planeswalker(Castle)
Peasant(v.hall)->Traveller(t.hall)->Adventurer(c.hall)->Renowned Adventurer(capitol)
CORE:
Air Elemental->Storm Elemental or Gas Elemental
Water Elemental->Ice Elemental or Mist Elemental
Fire Elemental->Energy Elemental or Magma Elemental
Earth Elemental->Mineral Elemental or Obsidian Elemental
ELITE:
Firebird->Phoenix or Halycon
Psychic Elemental->Magic Elemental or Runic Elemental
CHAMPION:
Anima->Atma or Prana

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted March 27, 2011 12:25 AM

Voted for theme based factions because I think that they are more versatile and that they have much more possibilities than race based factions.
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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