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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 13, 2011 01:57 PM |
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I never said you were raging. 
Just don't use misleading statements.
The truth of the matter is that we are still getting a town and it's interface, but it is reduced in size, and the size reduction is bad, that we can all agree on.
Well at least 83% of the people who voted anyway.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 13, 2011 02:03 PM |
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Quote:
Just again to put it into perspective, they are not removing town-screens, they are making them smaller.
Yes that is cause for rage, but lets not rage about "removal" when it's not being removed.
If you strip something of its essence, you essentially remove it.
I admit that I don't know how the currently designed townscreen works in detail, but the old one had a few factors:
- You could see the buildings build up as you ordered their construction (so over time, you could see your town literally grow);
- You could recruit units by selecting the individual buildings, as well as from the overall town screen;
As far as I can tell, both of these are gone.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 13, 2011 02:09 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 14:34, 13 May 2011.
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Whilst we know not EVERY building visually adds or alters to the town window, we have been told that there will be visibile growth both inside the town window and on the adventure map.
The ability to hire creatures by clicking on buildings so far has neither been confirmed nor denied (or so I thought), though I'll agree that it seems less likely.
I could imagine them linking the building click to the appropriate part of the UI, which is more or less how HoMMIII did it anyway.
Anyway I'll just choose to disagree on the "essence" being removed.
Towns are to me much more then shiny full screen visuals.
V-- Thanks for the clarification Bruk.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted May 13, 2011 02:17 PM |
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Quote:
The ability to hire creatures by clicking on buildings so far has neither been confirmed nor denied, though I'll agree that it seems less likely.
Quote:
- Building and recruiting is done through the window interface, rather than clicking on the buildings directly.
It's clearly confirmed that the screen will be non-interactive, and that everything is done through the menus.
No need to spread more confusion about this matter.
They might introduce interaction due to the postponement, but that is another matter entirely.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 13, 2011 03:17 PM |
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Quote:
I admit that I don't know how the currently designed townscreen works in detail, but the old one had a few factors:
- You could see the buildings build up as you ordered their construction (so over time, you could see your town literally grow);
- You could recruit units by selecting the individual buildings, as well as from the overall town screen;
As far as I can tell, both of these are gone.
- In H5 it was difficult to see all the buildings, so you must be referring to H1-H4....
- It is always tedious recruiting creatures from their individual buildings......so the fact that this is gone is not so bad.
I think we all fear change, but I think Ubihole have a cool game going here, so let's brace it and check it when it comes out....
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chimthegrim
Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
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posted May 13, 2011 09:31 PM |
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If we aren't getting towns screens that "fade-in" buildings that can be seen individually, then yes, town screens as we know them have been removed.
Quote:
Quote:
I admit that I don't know how the currently designed townscreen works in detail, but the old one had a few factors:
- You could see the buildings build up as you ordered their construction (so over time, you could see your town literally grow);
- You could recruit units by selecting the individual buildings, as well as from the overall town screen;
As far as I can tell, both of these are gone.
- In H5 it was difficult to see all the buildings, so you must be referring to H1-H4....
- It is always tedious recruiting creatures from their individual buildings......so the fact that this is gone is not so bad.
I think we all fear change, but I think Ubihole have a cool game going here, so let's brace it and check it when it comes out....
Its this mentality that helps Ubisoft to create the laziest town screens ever made. Are you Ubisoft, or are you a gamer? Choose your side because you're just helping them to get lazier and lazier.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted May 13, 2011 11:05 PM |
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Quote:
I think we all fear change, but I think Ubihole have a cool game going here, so let's brace it and check it when it comes out....
I think we all embrace change (and this has been discussed for several pages in this thread) as long as there is a good reason for it.
Many aspects of the game look promising, and I'm excited to see how it's all going to work out. But that's not a reason for not having proper screens, as has also been repeated in this thread.
It's not a very demanding ting to get done, and something most (83%) of the community wants, but frankly the changes will not affect anything or anyone negatively. That's why it's such a frustrating issue. It's not like we're asking for three extra factions or something, just a few simple changes that would raise the overall impression and feel of the game substantially.
I don't know if Ubi sees this, but that would be the best marketing stunt they could ever pull of! Picture this announcement:
"Hey guys, we've got some good and some bad news. The bad; the game has been postponed again, until the middle or end of September. The good; this is because we are implementing full screen, interactive town screens with all the buildings showing as you build them. We want to make this the best game possible, and you, the fans, are helping us accomplish that! - We truly listen to the fans."
It's good PR, it creates a greater sense of ownership to the game for the fans who have voiced their opinions, and it gives them a reason to use the "we listen to the fans" slogan that they have yet to prove.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 14, 2011 12:54 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 12:55, 14 May 2011.
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Quote:
- In H5 it was difficult to see all the buildings, so you must be referring to H1-H4....
- It is always tedious recruiting creatures from their individual buildings......so the fact that this is gone is not so bad.
I think we all fear change, but I think Ubihole have a cool game going here, so let's brace it and check it when it comes out....
I quite disliked HoMM IV  . My main frame of reference is HoMM III and HoMM V, yes (although I did also play I and II, the big hit for me didn't come until III). While I admit that it took somewhat more time to get the visuals on the HoMM V towns, it wasn't long before I could quickly spot the various townbuildings in the town screen.
Nowhere did I state that the overall recruitment tab was bad or anything (in fact, I used it plenty, myself), it's just that we had a choice on how to. Now, they're reducing that choice to just one option: from the overall town screen. To me, it makes no sense to make this reduction.
Edit: Maybe it's because they sever the somewhat hard link that creatures had to the building they came from. Now it's just 'ploink down building X, and creature Y appears on the overall recruitment list'.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted May 14, 2011 01:28 PM |
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looks like people have different opinion on how much important the Town-Screens are,
but everyone agrees that the Change clearly wasn't for better!!!
I hope that September delay will help to improve the Town-Windows issue.. at least they will change from what we have at the moment..
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 14, 2011 01:41 PM |
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Quote:
looks like people have different opinion on how much important the Town-Screens are,
but everyone agrees that the Change clearly wasn't for better!!!
I hope that September delay will help to improve the Town-Windows issue.. at least they will change from what we have at the moment..
There we go, that is a pretty good summary.
Almost everybody is against the change, just not everybody cares as much as everybody else.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 16, 2011 12:39 PM |
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The important question is: Why this change?
I think that Towns might be less important than previous Heroes games....now you can convert towns, have this area of control....
All pointing to having "multiple" towns per map and thus individually, towns don't mean the same anymore....
Even with the unique buildings, you can't build them all in one town, you'll have to build some in your first town and the others in your second town.
Hey I'm also cheesed off with the town window, but trying to get into the heads of Ubihole is our solution. It's not laziness on their side, or else they would have left out, for example, the Reputation system which only complicates balancing much more.....
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 16, 2011 01:30 PM |
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Quote:
The important question is: Why this change?
I think that Towns might be less important than previous Heroes games....now you can convert towns, have this area of control....
All pointing to having "multiple" towns per map and thus individually, towns don't mean the same anymore....
Even with the unique buildings, you can't build them all in one town, you'll have to build some in your first town and the others in your second town.
I'd say all the reasons you presented would make towns more important not less, it reduces the value of having just one single town, which makes it in turn much more important to have multiple.
Multiple towns increases your areas of control, thus your mine control, multiple towns increase the growth of your native creatures after you convert them and multiple towns will allow you to reap the benefits of all your faction unique structures.
I'd say this makes towns more important then ever before.
But, in my opinion that has little to do with their presentation in a window.
I've admitted I'm not bothered much about the window, I'd prefer fullscreen but I do admit this:
I am VERY bothered about why?
So far I cannot see an actual relevant benefit.
The only benefit I can think of is a weak:
"It allows you to also see the mini-map and other adventure map UI elemenents that might be useful to see in-town."
It's tiny, and surely the mini-map could have been incorperated into the town UI.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2011 01:53 PM |
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Quote:
but trying to get into the heads of Ubihole is our solution. It's not laziness on their side, or else they would have left out, for example, the Reputation system which only complicates balancing much more.....
It's not about laziness, they simply don't grasp what the soul of this game is. As a proof, here's what they said back in october in a Q&A :
Quote:
You said you wanted to keep the Heroes essence, though one of your first changes was to reduce the resources (which makes long-time fans screaming ). Why such a change? How will the new system impact our games?
Resources are not fundamental, they're a feature. It is important to make a distinction between the soul of the game on one hand(turn by turn, RPG component, realm and city management) and on features on the other (resources for example).
It's funny how they explained that resources were NOT fundamental in comparison to realm and city management and YET they managed to murder what they called themselves, the soul of the game
I'm truely amazed by how Erwan dares to say he's a fan of this game since the beginning and how he managed to slaughter this license.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 16, 2011 01:58 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 13:58, 16 May 2011.
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Quote:
I'm truely amazed by how Erwan dares to say he's a fan of this game since the beginning and how he managed to slaughter this license.
"Rush now, think later!"
\
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 16, 2011 03:18 PM |
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Quote:
I'd say this makes towns more important then ever before.
But, in my opinion that has little to do with their presentation in a window.
I mentioned that the "individual" town is not important anymore....ie. you need multiple towns now. One town on it's own is not game winning, so you'll need many towns. Hence, you'll need to jump from town to town and go through multiple menus, etc. that's, in my opinion, the REASON for the change to town windows, good or bad.
@Avirosb - That's a hilarious picture of Erwan! Very funny! ha ha!
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted May 16, 2011 04:46 PM |
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@Nelgirith
Wow, that's a nice quote to have. Does anyone know where they mentioned not wanting to make us city-planners and reducing micromanagement?
@Avirosb
Haha! That's hillarious! 
@DoubleDeck
We already spent a couple of pages in the discussion thread about the possible reasons for the windows. We haven't been given any (meaningful ones), so I don't think we should spam this thread with further speculation.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 16, 2011 06:29 PM |
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Quote:
I mentioned that the "individual" town is not important anymore....ie. you need multiple towns now. One town on it's own is not game winning, so you'll need many towns. Hence, you'll need to jump from town to town and go through multiple menus, etc. that's, in my opinion, the REASON for the change to town windows, good or bad.
Not a valid excuse, in my opinion. On the larger HoMM III maps, you could have 16 towns or more and to me it never felt dull, or retarded or anything to manage them using the classical approach.
Actually, HoMM V's restriction to only having 8 towns (before hitting default victory condition) felt incredibly restricted in its own right. I would have preferred larger maps, with more towns. And yet, using the same townscreen to handle them all.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 17, 2011 08:41 AM |
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There will never be a valid excuse, as "everyone agrees that the Change clearly wasn't for better!!"
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 17, 2011 08:58 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 08:59, 17 May 2011.
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Ubisoft just didn't do their homework. Again. At this point I'll be fine if they admit that they have no idea what Heroes is and are making wild guesses which tend to hit less often than miss.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 17, 2011 11:56 AM |
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Quote:
Ubisoft just didn't do their homework. Again. At this point I'll be fine if they admit that they have no idea what Heroes is and are making wild guesses which tend to hit less often than miss.
They did do their homework.....They listened to us complaining about H5 for the time it took to enter town screens! We just can't find a valid excuse for it now.....shame on us!
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This thread is pages long: 
