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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Town Screens! Petition!
Thread: Town Screens! Petition! This thread is 57 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 50 ... 53 54 55 56 57 · «PREV / NEXT»
Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted March 30, 2011 06:02 PM

YAY
But ubihole is to lazy
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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted March 30, 2011 06:26 PM
Edited by Willis at 18:31, 30 Mar 2011.

Thanks for this thread, DarkLord. I am sort of mixed about town screens. Talking from a design standpoint, it feels like something you usually only spend a few seconds viewing shouldn't transition into a full screen state. Usually I build one thing and leave within a matter of a few seconds. This is different from battle or the adventure map, where time spent can often be measured in minutes. To be clear, I'm not saying it necessarily takes longer to go to a full screen state; I'm saying it feels more like it is intended to create a pause in the flow of the game. Everything from the adventure map is hidden, including potentially useful things, like the minimap, which could remind you where your town is and if it's in danger (that could be included in a full screen view, though).

On the other hand, it can be very satisfying to soak in what you have built every once in a while, and many players have a strong connection with that feeling. The town graphics are often the most beautiful part of the game, and they show what the player has accomplished. There's also not much need to see things from the adventure map view, and it doesn't necessarily take any more time to use a full screen view.

I think it would be cool in a future heroes game, when the graphics are sufficiently awesome, if viewing your town simply meant zooming in to your town on the adventure map at an angle (along with a UI change). If this was sufficiently detailed, it would be pretty indistinguishable from town screens and a lot more seamless. It would also keep your town in the context of its environment. Of course, everything you build appearing on the adventure map would have implications for gameplay that would have to be considered.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted March 30, 2011 06:47 PM
Edited by Azagal at 18:54, 30 Mar 2011.

They better have a town screen... it just wouldn't feel right without one. Using the 1 second delay thing is really a poor excuse lol.

I mean they say they want to honor the traditions etc. and so far they've done a good job but taking out the Townscreens comes very close to removing the heart and soul of the game. I mean they don't have to be 3d but if they've really broken it down to what Xerox just posted... that's bad news.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 30, 2011 07:16 PM

It was rather obvious that we weren't going to get a proper town screen since some people had been whining about their PCs not being able to handle them, thus slowing the game down.

So the developers are doing what they were asked to do.



NOW GO LYNCH THOSE WHO ASKED FOR IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 30, 2011 07:16 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 19:16, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
I mean they say they want to honor the traditions etc. and so far they've done a good job but taking out the Townscreens comes very close to removing the heart and soul of the game. I mean they don't have to be 3d but if they've really broken it down to what Xerox just posted... that's bad news.


Luckily for us, what XeroX posted is not what we're going to get.

Please get it through you're thick, bony skulls that what Xerox Posted is:
A Pre-Alpha Testing Stop-Gap! We Will Not Get Such A Town Window In The Finished Game! When that video came out the Town-Windows weren't finished, or even made.
We are getting Animated 2D towns like in Heroes III. However they will not be screen filling. That is not something that can, or will be changed.

And may I remind you peoples of Cepheus words:
Quote:
Yeah, still like that as far as I know. It's windowed, at a fixed size, to prevent monitor deformation.
If I had no insight into the development, of course I too would say town screens over town windows.


In which he says that while windows are not screens, they will not be as bad as you people make it out to be.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 30, 2011 08:01 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 20:02, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
It was rather obvious that we weren't going to get a proper town screen since some people had been whining about their PCs not being able to handle them, thus slowing the game down.
Huh? Where? What PC can not handle a 2D full town screen nowadays? My first PC was able to deal with the Heroes III towns and I tell ya, the thing wasn't bright at all!
Quote:
A Pre-Alpha Testing Stop-Gap! We Will Not Get Such A Town Window In The Finished Game!
OK, will you finally tell us where did you see/read that the town windows will CERTAINLY differ significantly from those from the trailer in question or you will finally admit that you have absolutely no idea what's happening - just like everybody else - and ultimately shut up? "They told us so" doesn't qualify for anything, champ!

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Vinetu80
Vinetu80


Adventuring Hero
posted March 30, 2011 08:03 PM

Quote:
Luckily for us, what XeroX posted is not what we're going to get.

Please get it through you're thick, bony skulls that what Xerox Posted is:
A Pre-Alpha Testing Stop-Gap! We Will Not Get Such A Town Window In The Finished Game! When that video came out the Town-Windows weren't finished, or even made.
We are getting Animated 2D towns like in Heroes III. However they will not be screen filling. That is not something that can, or will be changed.

And may I remind you peoples of Cepheus words:
Quote:
Yeah, still like that as far as I know. It's windowed, at a fixed size, to prevent monitor deformation.
If I had no insight into the development, of course I too would say town screens over town windows.


In which he says that while windows are not screens, they will not be as bad as you people make it out to be.


Well, I for one, wish I had your confidence and enthusiasm War-overlord. As it is, I don't. As already mentioned, the excuse advanced was pathetic, and reflect the same level of laziness in Ubi' communication as in technical implementation of the game. You make the most awsome Heroes graphics EVER, then you are too lazy to add another (essential) level of depth?! Why, because computers of 90% of gamers can't handle the resolution? If it came from the developers of Crysis it would be laughable, let alone the Heroes devs'...

This game SHOULD have delivered a town screen like those in the discussion thread from Heroes online. Period. Unless the added layer of graphics were too much for the game engine to handle, but then you step out and say: guys here's your choice, you want the most splendid water animation like ever, or you want to keep your town screens?

Take a guess at what the community would opt for.


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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted March 30, 2011 08:03 PM
Edited by Cepheus at 20:05, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
In which he says that while windows are not screens, they will not be as bad as you people make it out to be.


Well I didn't say that exactly. I don't know what you'll think of them when they're shown, but I do know that your collective opinion will be the correct one, and I will represent it whatever it may be. Just don't pass a judgement yet.
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
posted March 30, 2011 08:38 PM

Quote:
Quote:
In which he says that while windows are not screens, they will not be as bad as you people make it out to be.


Well I didn't say that exactly. I don't know what you'll think of them when they're shown, but I do know that your collective opinion will be the correct one, and I will represent it whatever it may be. Just don't pass a judgement yet.


So, basically You're saying that being a VIP fan, You can't reveal your personal opinion, but when it comes out, with TWs instead of TSCs, You will be among the first to tell the developers that TWs were the greatest blunder of 25 years of Might and Magic, in order to make sure that we get full 2d townscreens in the first possible patch?
Please clarify.
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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted March 30, 2011 08:46 PM
Edited by Cepheus at 20:47, 30 Mar 2011.

No, my personal opinion is that fullscreen town screens absolutely beat town windows and I want town screens in game posthaste. However I can sympathise with the developers' position, which is that it would not be as easy to rework that decision as one would assume, due to various technical problems, and it might take more time and resources than they have at their disposal.
I also hear that the screens are not horrible as you may believe, but of course I can't confirm that to you. So I want you to wait until the screens are revealed, and then if you really do dislike them in their final form, tell us, so we have weight behind our recommendations.
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 30, 2011 08:49 PM

LOL.

I very well know WHEN the screenshot with the pre-alpha thing ws taken.

BUT YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING.

PRETTY MUCH THE EXACT SAME WINDOW APPEARED LATER WHEN WE SAW THAT HAVEN MAP A MONTH OR TWO AGO.

And in Cepheus picture, the window was EVEN SMALLER than in those.

The point is that, that yes while those were an early version (though personally I still think that the necro one is very close to the final one, as it was ANIMATED in the igromir video), the final version will likely still be:

1. SMALL. As seen in screenshots and a photoshopped H3 image. We know from interviews that we will see a big chunk of the adventure map while visiting the town menu window.

2. NO MAGE GUILD and Blacksmith. There are no war machines in the game, and spells are learned through a tbh better system (though I will still miss mage guilds and will contiune to use  them in a new way in my H7 ideas).

3. FEWER FEATURES IN THE TOWN OVERALL. I do not think you should expect a lot. The only new thing is probably going to be the Hall of Heroes building where Blood/Tears are sorted etc.

4. BUILDINGS WON'T BE CLICKABLE. The whole town will be menu-based. The town is not interactive.

5. THEY WON'T SHARE TOWN WINDOWS WITH US. Because they know we will raaaaage even more and wanna share them when its to late to change.

6. NEW BUILDINGS WON'T APPEAR ON THE SCREEN. But on the adventure map.

Even though it is an early version, it is laughable that you seem to think that we will get some super good screen that will be totally different from the old version.

We won't.

And when we see it, I will prove it to you and it will be TO LATE to change and aslong as UbiHole makes Heroes games, we MIGHT NOT EVER have a real town screen again.

Removing town screens to me feels like removing the Heroes in Warcraft 3, removing the building element in Starcraft 2, removing the Normandy in Mass Effect and the town screns in Heroes 1 to 5!
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
posted March 30, 2011 08:59 PM

@Cepheus:
Thank You. I understand that this late in development, it's practically impossible to change them, and OFC they'll beat H4's TSCs hands down, maybe turning out to be almost bearable(definitely bearable with Romero's and King's music playing in the background. See? I'm keeping an open mind... sorta ), but who in his right mind ditched TSCs for TWs in the first place, before any coding even thought about happening?  
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Dark-Whisperer
Dark-Whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted March 30, 2011 09:08 PM

Quote:
However I can sympathise with the developers' position, which is that it would not be as easy to rework that decision as one would assume, due to various technical problems, and it might take more time and resources than they have at their disposal.
I also hear that the screens are not horrible as you may believe, but of course I can't confirm that to you. So I want you to wait until the screens are revealed, and then if you really do dislike them in their final form, tell us, so we have weight behind our recommendations.


Cepheus can you please clarify, if you know of course, what was the idea behind town windows in the first place?
Is it really that they scratched screens because of 1 second loading time?
If so how is it that you, insiders, didn't move against it earlier when something could have been done or at least clarify on this or official forum what is town window in the first place, when we all were thinking town window=town screen?
Also, do you really think that any of our opinions will be considered after we actually see finished town window and we hate it? I feel it would be like post mortem CPR...

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted March 30, 2011 09:35 PM

Quote:
Cepheus can you please clarify, if you know of course, what was the idea behind town windows in the first place?
Is it really that they scratched screens because of 1 second loading time?


No, the one extra second of loading time isn't the main reason I think. I can't give a detailed justification though. You would have to ask Ubi. I'll see if I can get a more satisfactory explanation.

Quote:
If so how is it that you, insiders, didn't move against it earlier when something could have been done or at least clarify on this or official forum what is town window in the first place, when we all were thinking town window=town screen?


I suppose that is my fault, because when reporting on Marzhin's reveal about the windows I only offered a link to his post and briefly summarised it, saying "he clarifies that town screens have not been dropped and are returning". I should have quoted the post directly, or at least said "town screens have not been dropped but will be altered into windows"...
That's the main problem with being an insider and a news writer, I suppose - you assume people know what you do, and lose full clarity.

Quote:
Also, do you really think that any of our opinions will be considered after we actually see finished town window and we hate it? I feel it would be like post mortem CPR...


I think is doubtful that they will be changed for release, but if everybody hates the final versions and there is time, something may be done about it in patches. That's just my speculation, though - don't take that as any sort of official word.
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Dark-Whisperer
Dark-Whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted March 30, 2011 09:41 PM

Thanks Cepheus, fast as always

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted March 30, 2011 10:36 PM

I'd rather whine after you've actually played the game, hmm? It might actually turn out to be quite amazing (unlikely, but one can always hope, I suppose)

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mancubus
mancubus


Adventuring Hero
posted March 30, 2011 10:45 PM

Quote:
I think is doubtful that they will be changed for release, but if everybody hates the final versions and there is time, something may be done about it in patches. That's just my speculation, though - don't take that as any sort of official word.


Just rhetorically asking: how would you define "everybody" in this particular case anyway? Most probably the window trick will result in lost sales, but it's impossible to prove it.

Later of course they'll blame piracy and whatnot for letting this franchise die off (and some fans probably start to blame other fans for "not showing their love enough which clearly insulted the developer and caused them to abandon us!!!"). Aknowledging their own faults like getting rid of the proper town screens etc is not what we are going to hear.

Sale numbers count, not our voice.

If the game will sell poorly, then they won't invest much time and effort to patch it because if you have been watching the interviews and such - in their eyes Heroes 6 really is shaping up to be a perfect product. And if X number of people think otherwise it can only be "their fault, not our", cause "we just know better".

And if it will sell relatively well, then sure we might see a sequel in 8 years or so, but the patches won't change anything fundamentally because "if it works, don't brake it!". In that case lost sales are purely hypothetical, speculative number which cannot be proven. These kind of hypothetical losses are only brought up if the developer wants to blame others, like piracy.  

Remember, nerfing town screens ain't a "bug" or something which accidentially "happened" to the game (so patching it could be considered) - it's a deliberate choice of Ubihole. They are SURE it's the right thing to do and we can't prove the opposite.

Good to have Cepheus on the case/game though. I'm pretty sure he is doing his best. So thank you.

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creepiestdani
creepiestdani


Adventuring Hero
posted March 30, 2011 11:05 PM
Edited by creepiestdani at 23:08, 30 Mar 2011.

@Avirosb
Quote:
It's still a static image though.
Would've been nice if at least the clouds were moving or something.

They did have certain animated elements in Heroes 3. It would indeed be nice if there were more such elements.


@Adrius
Quote:
They should add an option called "Quick-Town-Menus" in Options that, when enabled, does the whole town-window thingy.

When left unchecked, we get full awesome town-screens like it should be.

Awesomeness for everyone.

Completely agree! That's exactly what I was going to suggest. In multiplayer I don't really care about the full-screen view to be honest. Having an option to switch between the two is really the best solution I think.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 30, 2011 11:11 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 23:16, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
Just rhetorically asking: how would you define "everybody" in this particular case anyway?
I second this question with the following addition: the patches are supposed to address technical flaws and gameplay-related issues like the balance between the factions, etc. and not the aesthetics. The town screens, no matter how much we like them, do not count for something that should be "repaired" but rather something that should be "re-shaped" or even "added" and thus I can't see how this could happen before the first expansion at the earliest. Then again Ubihole already have A LOT to bring back with the expansions - 3 factions for starters - and can use the always available excuse that there are more momentous things to be considered than the town screens. By then there will be enough opinions like "I'd rather have (insert something important here) brought back than focusing on something not-so-important like the town screens". And of course returning the town screens would mean admitting a mistake which the big companies are amazingly unwilling to do, even when they face financial losses because of the said mistake. I think - and I hope I'm wrong - that if we lose whatever initiative we have now and the game is released without acceptable version of the town screens/windows, it will stay like that until the end.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted March 30, 2011 11:27 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 23:37, 30 Mar 2011.

Quote:
OK, will you finally tell us where did you see/read that the town windows will CERTAINLY differ significantly from those from the trailer in question


This this link here, smart guy. Q&A with Marzhin
Particularly note the date it was posted.
This should be general knowledge, as it is one of the first thing the devs told the community. There's likely a similar thread in the official forums, but those are down for me.
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