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| Thread: Open vrs. Closed |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2002 02:45 PM |
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Closed maps = fun to play .
Open Maps = fun to play .
Semi-open maps = most fun for me 
i like having contact with my enemy and scout wars but i hate games that only last till day 8 or 9.
Semiopenschaaf
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted February 14, 2002 02:50 PM |
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only thing that rocks nomatter open or closed is playin an allied game.... allied games just kicks
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted February 15, 2002 11:25 PM |
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What are the best Toh maps that are allied and semi-open?
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Go Red Sox!
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted February 16, 2002 02:28 AM |
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I agree w/Vesuvius that no relics and no utopias and open are 3 good starting points but I also agree with Undead Knight.
Most of these open maps are made where the castles are far apart to prevent rush which is OK for people who don't want to learn to defend against that.
But they need more towns in between so you can launch offensives.
Maybe these maps were made in season 1 when gremlin rush was ruining the game.
Remember the map Winterlands?
The starting towns were far apart but there were towns between.
These points of contention made for great games.
These ToH maps are for kindergarteners. Let's have some more strategic elements in play for H4.
-Mocara
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted February 16, 2002 04:20 AM |
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well...
To be honest, best thing about TOH maps are the large variety of styles within them.
You may think all the maps are made for "kindergarteners" Mocara, and it may be true about some, but you cant say that for all, because if you are then 99% of TOH should be offended since they arent masters of a "kindergarteners Map"
Ive actually made all kinds of styles of maps, some with lots of towns, some with no relics, some with lots of relics..etc. but lets face it, the ones people like best are the most popular ones you see now, so all the other maps get hidden and sometimes lost.
If there was 50 Beltway type maps out there you would get the same results you see now, so its not the maps, its the people who play thems preference
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I will not lose.
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted February 16, 2002 07:29 AM |
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If there were 50 beltways out there then it would be stupid but there are 50 maps here that share the same traits.
I think the biggest problem is too few mapmakers are getting their maps on ToH.
I look around the net and find some amazing maps.
Check out the ones at h3trio.
I played insanity last night and it was the same formula.
Please don't take offense Jinxer.
The mines are placed just like on BFH. Castles in the corners just like most maps.
Open but a long journey just like BFP3.
Retrieve the quest artie, Lev 7's block the gate,
etc etc.
I appreciate all the work people like yourself and Jinxer do to make maps. Seriously I do but we do not need the same map formula over and over.
We need variety in maps and if someone sends in another map that is just like one we already have then kick it to the curb.
I know I know "Mocara let's see you make a map" and I will, I promise in H4.
And of course many people will rip on it and that's fine.
But I will not even release a map that has a cliche on it. So it may not come out til around 2005. =P
-Mocara
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted February 17, 2002 12:11 AM |
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my reference to "50 beltways" was that other map makers make maps that arent the formula style you see and hate lol
but we all gotta face the facts, people play what they like. if i didnt accept that Id stop makin maps long ago, because believe it or not, maybe only 1/3rd the maps i make get played...what about the other 2/3rd? who knows, gets lost and forgotten since many dont like to try new things.
which brings me to an example...I noticed Giant War became popular, which is funny because it didnt become popular until 6 months after it was created. It was created, maybe played few times, then lost until people rediscovered it and decided to play it lol
and Im sure we can say the same about hundreds of maps created for h3 by many different editors. so the maps are out there, it just takes the players to play them.
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I will not lose.
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted February 17, 2002 02:09 AM |
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About maps that are too formula. I am in the slow process of making a completely different style map. I sent you a version of it Mocara. Have you looked at it. It's definately clear that it's unlike any other map.
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Go Red Sox!
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted February 17, 2002 06:15 AM |
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I agree with you mostly JB.
ToH is a huge league and any time a huge amount of people are gathered it will always come to the lowest common deonominator.
That is NOT a slam. It's just a fact.
A friend of mine who is a journalist told me that he learned in college to always write as if you were writing to a 7th grader because the average adult has that level of intellect.
So if this is true then the most popular maps will be those that the average person or in this case player would like.
And there is NOTHING wrong with that. Nothing at all.
If I am a housewife with 3 kids who doesn't care about being some silly heroes master then why on earth would I want to learn all these crazy advanced tactics?
You wouldn't of course.
I am glad toh is there for those type of players.
I used to play with a guy who was waiting on a kidney transplant and was not mobile. Heroes was all he had.
So what is wrong with putting towns in the corners and always making everything easy for them?
Absolutely nothing.
But so far in ToH about 99% of maps were catering to these types and maybe 1% for those who want to play more intense games.
That is all I am saying.
I think it will change in H4.
I think the reason we have so many strictly random players is the people that like diverse maps were completely alienated by the cliche maps offered thsi time around.
In H2 we had closed map players and open map players but almost no random players (and the random generator was about the same crappiness) because the very things that make random maps appealing to some are found in these well balanced diverse maps that Antal, Flamingo, Prometheus, Frank and other countless ToH players love.
The only difference is is that now they are balanced. Random maps aren't of course.
-Mocara
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted February 17, 2002 07:15 AM |
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Maybe I didnt play all ToH maps, but 90-95% of those that I saw had the same design : 1 side, 2nd side and central part with something usefull; and its the same for open, closed and semi closed maps. Maybe JB will post here names of toh maps which are not mirrored; where towns are not devided berween players by mapmaker and where those who expand faster can gain more towns like on beltway; and is there any toh map in style of maps from heroes3 CD?
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted February 17, 2002 07:59 AM |
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Undead you seem to have a lot of knowledge on these things.
I hope we can play sometime soon.
-Mocara
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted February 18, 2002 01:26 AM |
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for anyones information...1 of the reasons I got burnt out of bein "the map person" was if I made a map or showed someones map where 1 side had a town 5 days away and other side had 1, 2 days away but a few extra items to make up for it, and then go test map with players for feedback, 9/10 oppinions was "make towns same distance away" and this wasnt from the same people over and over 
well for those who like maps with variety, Id like u to try this map I made awhile back and lemme know what you think.
http://hommbastards.com/maps/extremechallenge.zip
not sure if url shows..if not its hommba5tards.com where the 5 is an s..
and well its not mirrored and i made several like it but most became lost and forgotten..and this was the 1 i went back and fixed up for current standards
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I will not lose.
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted February 18, 2002 02:40 AM |
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extreme challenge
hehe i played that map with destro for uncharted lands in Ba5tards (Blindmap - tourney ).
Was a fun game but not because of the map ( sephinroth came along week 2 with a 300 bolt and my best unit was 1 behemoth ) but because of destro .
Too bad it was too short because sephinroth finished me end week 2.
Blindmapschaaf
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted February 18, 2002 04:21 AM |
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Hehe I liked that map as well as the game..
Although playing it blind it was shocking that all my resources were stolen on day 1 lol.
But fun none the less...
I think I killed sephinroth
Thank god for ivor and his 10 elves
And btw this is a map I think you'd really enjoy moc
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Mocara
Famous Hero
what?
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posted February 18, 2002 04:47 AM |
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I can emphesize with you JB.
When I was making maps for a tourney we had in H2 all I ever heards was stuff like.
"His gold mine was closer."
And I'd say "yeah but you had 3 more resource piles"
"But he had a dragon cave!"
"Yes but you had those 6 orc huts and 42 orcs can kill 1 green dragon."
On and on and on.
It is how it is. Like I said the average player cannot see the nuances so he will want everything to be the same.
I understand.
-Mocara
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Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
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posted February 18, 2002 05:07 AM |
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ToH maps are... diverse??? U kidding?
>>> jb
You said something up there about Toh maps being diverse.
How are they diverse? They all play the same... even the open maps, play like closed because it takes so long to get to ur opponent, that you hafto stay back anyway 
(a good example: boomerang)
Oh yeah, Mocara is god, we need open maps that are really open, and allow more people to make maps for toh (btw: How high in toh do you hafto be to submit a map?)
(if u didnt already know ) I already have been a supporter of this "crusade", as i have been making plenty these types of maps since the beginning...
(well, a couple months after h3 came out I made my first)
And yeah, Winterlands is a pimp map, along with Broken Alliances, Seven Lakes, Dominion(Damn that is a fun map), and a lot of other H2 maps... H2 maps simply put Toh maps to shame.
I think I have several other posts and threads along the same line somewheres in the library of enlightenment and the altar, if anyone has the off-chance desire to read more of my rantings, you can look them up .
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My Site
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted February 18, 2002 05:18 AM |
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all of this is not a reason to make only mirrored maps, some ppl plays random maps and doesnt complain about external 7th lev dwelling and tome of earth near opponents town so I think if there will be more different maps ppl will play them without complains
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted February 18, 2002 07:14 AM |
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well lots to look forward to for h4..Im sure we will see a bigger variety this time around. lots of the map styles popular in h3, but more diverse styles too, and Im sure I will make different styles to see how they play. this time around Im gonna put my signature on all my maps and keep an archive so I dont get blamed for bad maps I didnt do
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I will not lose.
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted February 19, 2002 12:50 AM |
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extreme challenge seems to be interesting map, but beltway seems to be better
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 22, 2002 09:45 AM |
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When playing a fun closed map,
ppl complain about bad luck and
as if luck determines game.....
When playing a balanced open map,
ppl complain about lack of variety
and called it mirror maps......
When a good map is played over and over
and over, ppl complain about ppl just
memorize maps and no courage to try new
things........
When playing random, ppl complain about
unfairness if he/she is unlucky to not have
a utopia in his/her side....
Just kidding from a completely ToH newbie with
0 game record thanks to the excellent ISP
services here. So don't take it too seriously.
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Choose what you love
and love what you choose.
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