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einomida
Known Hero
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posted April 03, 2011 02:16 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
It's not moronic when every time you see complaints about H6, there's things along the lines of "I want this creature to look like H3", "I want this system to be like H3"...
And what is the problem to have some things like in Heroes III? This doesn't mean that the people in question want a full replica of the said game. Actually I'll be surprised if those who want Heroes III to be cloned in 3D are more than a few dozens or hundreds at most. But sure, it's easier to think of everybody who supports some part of the old stuff as of "enemies of the progress" or whatever - painting someone blacker than he/she really is works since the dawn of the civilization, why stop now?...
The point I'm trying to make is that people complain over things that shouldn't matter at all if the game will be good or not. Whether the Griffin is standing on two legs or four isn't something that makes or breaks a game.
Epic storyline, smooth game mechanincs, balanced factions make a game bad-ass... The fact that H3 Griffin stood on two legs didn't amount at all to the successfulness of the game.
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Wckey
Famous Hero
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posted April 03, 2011 03:41 AM |
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Funny, how sometimes it looks like it is considered "childish, silly and therefore wrong" to "whine" about some detail (some creature, town window) of the game, because allegedly it's an indication of immaturity, whereas at the same time it is not considered immature to express ENJOYMENT over certain details of some random computer game, or just half-blindly and openly cheer for the project
Actually, usually a complainig isn't something that can or can't be childish, but the way it is done yes.
Also, I don't see the point of complainig about things you don't know how it will look. You can complain about creatures, you can complain about the idea of town windows, but I don't think you can't, for example, complaining about the game being dumbed down, because you don't know how is the game.
Also, there's a difference between complaining because something isn't more like H3, and complaining because that thing isn't H3.
Anyways, I don't think heroes fans that complains the most here are that bad. There are comunities of other games with much worse complainers (I think it's hard to surprass the fans of Sonic the hedgehog that complained because the character hasd green eyes  )
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Come back soon, Elvin!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 03, 2011 09:55 AM |
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Quote:
The point I'm trying to make is that people complain over things that shouldn't matter at all if the game will be good or not. Whether the Griffin is standing on two legs or four isn't something that makes or breaks a game.
Epic storyline, smooth game mechanincs, balanced factions make a game bad-ass... The fact that H3 Griffin stood on two legs didn't amount at all to the successfulness of the game.
How epic the storyline is is a matter of personal preference but the overall opinion is that the story of Heroes V can hardly get dumber. As for game mechanics and balance - the said game hardly shines. All the previous games have their flaws, but you see, the point is that when you summarize all the pluses and minuses, some of them get better results. It so happens that Heroes III has the best result overall - which does not mean that it should be cloned 1:1 but that one should note the obvious, namely that this success wasn't accidental and that people would like at least some of the things which contributed to this success to be preserved. This is not the same as exposing "enemies of the progress" every time when Heroes III is mentioned and I really hope that you people will finally comprehend the difference.
And by the way, yes - screaming with joy that "Heroes VI will be the best game in the series" at this stage is just as stupid as ranting that it will be an utter failure.
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted April 03, 2011 10:05 AM |
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Matt1128Y
Hired Hero
ALIVE
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posted April 03, 2011 11:07 AM |
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A brief run-down of what I think of the units
A brief run-down of what I think of the units
Haven:
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-GB/game/creatures/haven/index.aspx
Sentinel: Looks cool.
Crossbowman: Stupid name. Boots are too high. Pants look stupid. Giant hood ornament on helmet looks absolutely ridiculous. Helmet visor looks stupid.
Griffin: Looks emaciated.
Seraph: Angels are technically supposed to be genderless. Why have the Angel units dual wield swords? It looks redundant and stupid. Why not have the Angel units use one sword like they did in Heroes 5, 4, and 3? Go look up what the Angel unit looked like in Heroes 5, and then compare it to what Angel units will look like in Heroes 6.
Sister: Looks OK.
Radiant Glory: Stupid name. Doesn't fit in with the theme of Haven. Why a third female unit?
Sun Rider: looks cool.
Inferno:
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-GB/game/creatures/inferno/index.aspx
Hellhound: Looks OK, although I don't like the duckbill look. Aren't they supposed to have more in common with dogs?
Juggernaut: Looks cool. I'm not so sure about the name though. It doesn't seem to fit the unit.
Pit Fiend: Looks cool.
Tormentor: Looks stupid. At first glance it sort of reminds me of a murloc form World of Warcraft.
Breeder: Uninspired and stupid name. The unit looks stupid.
Succubus: Looks cool.
Maniac: Uninspired and stupid name. This would be a mediocre looking unit if there weren't gummy worms coming out of his hands.
Necropolis:
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-GB/game/creatures/necropolis/index.aspx
Skeleton: Looks stupid. Seriously, how did you guys (Black Hole Entertainment) screw this one up? The helmet makes the unit looks stupid.
Ghoul: Looks pretty cool, but there's something about the eyes that I don't like.
Vampire: This doesn't look like a vampire. It looks like something out of World of Warcraft. What's with the over-the-top armor with green lights (same problem with the skeleton)? It looks stupid.
Lich: This unit would look half-decent if it didn't have bright green legs coming out of its back. As it is now, it looks stupid.
Ghost: Close enough I guess, but again, what's with the green lights/jewelry? It looks stupid.
Lamasu: Looks cool. But what is with the green lights/jewelry? Get rid of it.
Fate Spinner: Stupid name. Boring looking.
Stronghold:
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-GB/game/creatures/stronghold/index.aspx
Goblin: Cool looking.
Harpy: This would be alright looking if it weren't for the stupid helmet/head.
Centaur: OK looking, but I think this unit would have looked better if it were male.
Dreamwalker: Stupid looking.
Jaguar Warrior: Stupid name. Looks stupid.
Mauler: Looks cool.
Cyclops: Looks cool.
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Read my bad and infrequently updated blog:
http://deepbluematt.blogspot.com/
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 03, 2011 11:48 AM |
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look, the point I'm trying to get across to people is this. at the end of the day, developers, like Ubisoft, care about one thing and one thing only. money. If a game does well in terms of sales, then it is going to continue, as it's a profitable investment. this is why FPS's get so many games, even if the majority of them at the moment all feel like reskins of the same game.
and as I and others have said, Homm is a niche market for RPG/TBS fans, it needs to broaden it's market base in order to become profitable. it cannot survive purely on the nostalgia of fans, because fans are a fickle bunch of people, and your just as likely to lose them for remaking heroes 3 again as you are to gain them back. really, I can only name two other games apart from the Homm franchise that do RPG/TBS fantasy, disciples and Kings bounty.
a good game does not always equal good sales, unfortunately, and so for a game like Homm to disappear would be tragic. Pre-emptively judging it is... well, you can, but it's not going to help the series any. at the end of the day, it's your prerogative over whether you buy this game or not, but complaining about features that we don't know how they are going to work, or missing units that we don't know whether they are going to be in later. if people want to moan, then I can't stop them, but it's not going to do any good as the information we have now has already been put into the game. we're just waiting for the product to hit shelves now, moaning about a missing creature isn't going to have it in by the time it comes out.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 03, 2011 02:17 PM |
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Yes, yes, it's all about money, we know it, those who didn't know it should have got it by now, stop repeating it. And I fully support the concept of good revenues going to the good developers. Hence I fully support the concept of the graveyard as the proper place for the bad developers. The company producing the Heroes series deserves to be paid as long as the game remains Heroes. After this border is crossed, I couldn't care less about the future of either of them. That's the point that I was trying to make + producers who rape the brand (not necessarily this one) just to squeeze extra money from it should not be given even one broken penny so they can ultimately go to hell where they belong - this is where our opinions seem to differ vastly.
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brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted April 03, 2011 02:38 PM |
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Quote:
It so happens that Heroes III has the best result overall
This is also a subjective opinion.
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted April 03, 2011 02:56 PM |
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I'd like to complain that the most active thread in this forum is one about complaining! Oh wait..
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 03, 2011 03:20 PM |
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well if that's the case, where does Homm stop and where does not-homm begin?
as far as I can see, if it fundamentally still remains a RPG/TBS hybrid with an element of fantasy, then it's still is Heroes of might and magic. they could have the next game about gods fighting one another, using various towns are religious hubs and progressing that way, with the big threat coming not from hell, but from some kind of mechanised anti-god faction that will unwittingly cause the very fabric of the world to collapse around itself by it's mere existance, and if they still had heroes, creatures, towns, resources etc, then it would still be homm.
it's all very well to say that you're not supporting developers when it comes to making games you don't like with a name you do like on it (legend of spyro springs to mind). the problem is that this problem isn't going to go away. Developers and publishers aren't going to make games for people who don't buy their games. sometimes, shaking hands with the devil is the only way you can get him to do what you want... so to speak.
Am I saying you have to accept everything they throw at you? of course not, it's entirely up to you on what your threshold is, but at the end of the day, pretty much everything we've seen so far is already in game, and, as I say, we are now just waiting for zerohour. if the game comes out and you hate it, then fine, if Blackhole are a halfway decent developer, they would monitor the various fansites and look for criticism and so on.
Game Developers aren't all screeching auteurs who will not take criticism from anyone. like most in their field, criticism is highly valued, so they know where they can improve on. this is Black holes big break, as far as I can see, and they want to make it good. more importantly, if you are an old-school fan, your criticism is probably going to be more highly valued.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 03, 2011 03:22 PM |
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i am going to buy the game no matter what!!!
i bought Disciples 3 , i will buy Heroes 6!!!
and i am sure that Heroes6 will be waay better then Disciples3!!
and i have very High Expectations, Ubi is not Akella, they won't make such a horrid mistakes
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 03, 2011 07:16 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 19:21, 03 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
This is also a subjective opinion.
Yes, the predominant subjective opinion. Which makes it more objective than the other subjective opinions.
Quote:
well if that's the case, where does Homm stop and where does not-homm begin?
It stops when it loses the things which define it as HoMM or they become so dumbed-down that you can't recognize them any more. Disciples is a RPG/TBS hybrid, but it is not Heroes. Heck, even Total War is sort of RPG/TBS hybrid, especially the last Shogun, but, again, it's not Heroes. Your definition is way too broad for my liking.
Quote:
it's all very well to say that you're not supporting developers when it comes to making games you don't like with a name you do like on it (legend of spyro springs to mind). the problem is that this problem isn't going to go away. Developers and publishers aren't going to make games for people who don't buy their games. sometimes, shaking hands with the devil is the only way you can get him to do what you want... so to speak.
Oh no, the problem's not going to go away, but supporting the negative trend is much less likely to help. Don't complain, stay silent, hope that it will ultimately turn to be for the better and one day find yourself playing a console port which doesn't have anything HoMM left in it except the name. Because if you leave it to the market and all these life-saving kiddies who want the games to be more and more shiny and more and more retarded, this is the only possible outcome. I'm not saying that Heroes VI does not hold promise to remain "true to the spirit of the series" but there are enough worrying signs which should not be ignored, even if the positive still outweighs the negative. It's called preventive action or if you prefer - preventive whining.
Quote:
Game Developers aren't all screeching auteurs who will not take criticism from anyone. like most in their field, criticism is highly valued, so they know where they can improve on. this is Black holes big break, as far as I can see, and they want to make it good. more importantly, if you are an old-school fan, your criticism is probably going to be more highly valued.
I am far more worried about Ubisoft than Black Hole and the former have the habit of treating the fans like morons and are yet to prove that have a good understanding of what Heroes is about. Sorry, just don't trust them.
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brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted April 03, 2011 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
This is also a subjective opinion.
Yes, the predominant subjective opinion. Which makes it more objective than the other subjective opinions.
And from what objective source/survey do you know that it is the predominant opinion?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted April 03, 2011 07:44 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 19:48, 03 Apr 2011.
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just because lots of people have the same opinion, doesn't make it any more or less subjective than any other opinion. popularity doesn't equal objectivity. lots of people are of the opinion that cornflakes were originally developed as a foodstuff and not as an anti-masturbation alert device for monks, but it doesn't make that opinion right (I've studied monasticism as part of a medieval history course, and as a result I choose to eat rice-crispies).
opinions are just that, opinions, and just because you agree with other people does not make your opinion any more or less valid than a random person on the street.
and the whole thing about dumbing down until it stops being the game you love, heroes has some core, defining features that have not been lost in transition. what's been lost are the excesses. is it really necessary to have 4 special resources over, say, 1?
also, I have to disagree with you about Ubisoft. Yes, they started off in a new universe... so what? Square enix do it all the time. just because heroes 5 decided to do something completely fresh whilst still retaining most of the core mechanics doesn't mean that Ubisoft are lore traitors or what have you.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 03, 2011 08:32 PM |
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Quote:
And from what objective source/survey do you know that it is the predominant opinion?
Well, dunno, maybe it's just me but somehow most of the polls which have something to do with which is the best Heroes so far end up with decisive Heroes III domination. And it remains the most played game of the series to date. But it could be coincidence, mass hypnosis, who knows.
Quote:
just because lots of people have the same opinion, doesn't make it any more or less subjective than any other opinion. popularity doesn't equal objectivity.
This is not rocket science you know, you are not really supposed to build a theory and prove its application to the whole universe. When more people like certain thing and are willing to spend their money on it, then it's not very clever to ignore their wishes. Which is kind of "market objectivity". You are using exactly the same argumentation to claim that the game has to move on and become acceptable for the newbies but you seem to be rather selective.
Quote:
also, I have to disagree with you about Ubisoft. Yes, they started off in a new universe... so what? Square enix do it all the time. just because heroes 5 decided to do something completely fresh whilst still retaining most of the core mechanics doesn't mean that Ubisoft are lore traitors or what have you.
The new world and all that is not the problem. Well, actually it is, but just because it's pathetic, not because it's new. The problem is with Ubisoft's arbitrary decisions which are given little or no explanation and show lack of competence regarding the Heroes series. Why did they remove the three resources? "Because this is just a feature". Why did they reduce the town screens to mere windows? "Because Heroes is not about city planning". Why did they cut the third head of the Cerberus but kept the name, which among other things is given to a three-headed dog in Heroes V? "Because this is not the real world mythology". And so on. You see, this kind of attitude really pisses me off. Not only they do something controversial, but they come up with a daft explanation for it. This does not generate trust, sir, at all!
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted April 03, 2011 09:31 PM |
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I pretty much agree with everything Zenofex says here.
Then again i still believe H6 can turn out to be decent game, so decision whether to cherish it or spit on it will be saved for the release day (or beta if it provides enough grounds for it).
I also consider Ubisoft the weak link during H5/H6 era. Even Nival seemed fine on their own but some Ubi decisions regarding Might and Magic have indeed been... strange to say the least.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 03, 2011 09:37 PM |
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I also consider Ubisoft the weak link during H5/H6 era. Even Nival seemed fine on their own but some Ubi decisions regarding Might and Magic have indeed been... strange to say the least.
You gotta be kidding ... Nival has been a bunch of incompetent guys as shown by their poor coding skills and their chaotic files structure ... they failed in the very basics.
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brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted April 03, 2011 11:43 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And from what objective source/survey do you know that it is the predominant opinion?
Well, dunno, maybe it's just me but somehow most of the polls which have something to do with which is the best Heroes so far end up with decisive Heroes III domination. And it remains the most played game of the series to date. But it could be coincidence, mass hypnosis, who knows.
I think it's simply because many who played H3 have never even tried H5, at least that is my experience. H4 drove people away from the franchise, and so many of the H3 fanatics out there have never tried the last installment believing it's just as bad, or worse than H4.
But it's still your personal impression that most people prefer H3 over any other of the installments.
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Sherekhaan
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 03, 2011 11:59 PM |
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The game's fine superficially.
What I want to complain about is the distribution and the complete rort that is pricing.
In the US it costs $50.
In Australia it costs over $100 USD.
Is that fair? It's for the digital version btw.
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SkySlam
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 02:20 AM |
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Edited by SkySlam at 04:40, 04 Apr 2011.
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Maybe it's just me but somehow most of the polls which have something to do with which is the best Heroes so far end up with decisive Heroes III domination. And it remains the most played game of the series to date. But it could be coincidence, mass hypnosis, who knows.
To be honest, let's start saying that Heroes 3 fans are a very loud crowd. Nearly every youtube video about the series is flooded by "H3 IS THE BEST", "Nothing will beat H3", "H3 ftw" comments, often written by the same users. Some of them spam on M&M Facebook as well.
This is my experience and the reason for my irritation towards many H3 fans.
I don't know about official pools, I never took part on one or ever said that Heroes II was my favourite, so to speak.
Quote:
The problem is with Ubisoft's arbitrary decisions which are given little or no explanation and show lack of competence regarding the Heroes series. Why did they remove the three resources? "Because this is just a feature". Why did they reduce the town screens to mere windows? "Because Heroes is not about city planning". Why did they cut the third head of the Cerberus but kept the name, which among other things is given to a three-headed dog in Heroes V? "Because this is not the real world mythology". And so on. You see, this kind of attitude really pisses me off. Not only they do something controversial, but they come up with a daft explanation for it. This does not generate trust, sir, at all!
On the other hand, it's hard for me not to agree on this. I could quote every word.
Since their explanations for some unpopular choices are directed towards long-time fans and not towards the masses of new customers (who couldn't care less about those changes), I don't get why they can't be honest with us.
For example, they could just say: "we removed town screens for a faster multiplayer-oriented game/because we didn’t have enough resources to make proper screens", or "we cut down resources as it fits better the gameplay we have in mind". One may or may not agree with the sentences above, but we'd got something to discuss.
Instead, giving stupid answers about questions very important to the fanbase in order to divert our attention is generating the opposing effect!
Townscreens’ lovers (like myself) won’t buy the “1 sec charging time was slowing down the game” excuse.
In a similar way, they have been overdefensive with the Cerberus/Orthus matter, to the point of looking ridiculous, when a simple name-swap would have been way more clever and elegant.
The last one is not a major issue for me, but it does show a lack of respect towards fans, especially when they say "this is not the real world mythology". Really? Then why didn't they call Griffins "Pegasi" or Cyclop "Behemoth" and, above all, if it is a different mitology why Sanctuary creatures got the EXACT SAME NAMES of "traditional" mitology? Seems incoherent in my eyes... 
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