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| Thread: H6 Sylvan - Xerox Edition. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 03:21 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 03:22, 08 Jul 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
You can't just make anything just because you feel like it, you have to base most of it from the real world.
i think that's why it's called "fantasy", guy. i don't think you're getting the hang of the whole "imagination" thing, at all. you'd be better off sticking to being a fanboy of something a little more literal in nature. like being a protestor who holds signs and chants things, maybe.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 04:01 AM |
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fred79 said:
JeremiahEmo said:
You can't just make anything just because you feel like it, you have to base most of it from the real world.
i think that's why it's called "fantasy", guy. i don't think you're getting the hang of the whole "imagination" thing, at all. you'd be better off sticking to being a fanboy of something a little more literal in nature. like being a protestor who holds signs and chants things, maybe.
oh gosh, I don't think you understood me at all. Did you even read my previous post?
In fantasy, YOU CAN'T MAKE JUST ANYTHING YOU WANT. Try making a fantasy wherein 2 year old babies are physically stronger than full grown adults and let's see if people will take your fantasy seriously.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 04:40 AM |
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be cool, man, be cool... i'm backing away... see my hands? i'm not holding anything... just be cool, man, nobody has to die... i hate xerox's idea too, no need for violence... 
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 05:06 AM |
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wtf?! I take that you think I'm angry because I used all caps?
I was just doing that to highlight what you've been missing out over and over again.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 05:54 AM |
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i haven't missed a damn thing. i know what you're saying, and it makes no sense. if you haven't learned the difference between imaginative fantasy and reality by now, then there's not much chance that you ever will. but i'll try anyway: fantasy in no way has to be grounded in reality; that's why it's called FANTASY. fantasy is FICTION. and what is fiction? imagination and theory. there absolutely does NOT have to be ANY sort of REALITY in FICTION. you claiming otherwise, only makes you look foolish. in my opinion, you need to sit back and relax, my friend. you are wayyyyy too uptight to be delving into any sort of fantasy world. once you have realized that fantasy isn't a serious thing, then you can dip your toes back into it, and gradually, your whole self. right now, you're in over your head, drowning in your own foolishness, and you don't even see it.
realize, that what you are doing here with your arguments, is the equivalent of wearing a 3-piece business suit meant for wall street, to a comic book convention. you're standing out like a sore thumb, and everyone is looking at you weirdly. which is bad, because most people here are wearing costumes that should never be seen in public. all metaphorically speaking, of course. 
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 06:18 AM |
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Ok, let me give you a very obvious example.
What do you think when you think of fantasy? Elves and Dwarves and Wizards, etc. If you go away from that, like adding a panzer from Nazi Germany, because hey, anything goes in fantasy right? It wouldn't feel very fantasy-ish now would it?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 06:31 AM |
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imagination only has subjective bounds, limited only by an individual's capability of abstract reasoning. when you think of it, elves, fairies, and the like, are all mixtures of different parts of reality. fairies are just tiny humanoid creatures with the wings of butterflies, physically. magically, anything can be attributed to them. what's wrong with adding panzer tanks to the mix? it's a purely subjective thing.
my point is, anything goes, in fantasy. ANYTHING. before you argue any further, i suggest reading up on the term "fantasy", in the dictionary. your argument here is preposterous in the extreme. you seem to think that you can redefine an abstract idea, simply because you feel like it. and isn't that what you were accusing xerox of doing?
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 08:37 AM |
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ok, so a lot of disagreement comes from you taking the definition of fantasy completely literal while I was just offered constructive criticism to Xerox.
Yes, I agree, anything goes in fantasy. However, don't expect people to receive it positively if you'll stretch too far away from what people expects from fantasy.
And panzers and fantasy just don't mix. I mean you can add panzers in fantasies but its modern concept would take away from the magical feel of what people generally expects of a fantasy.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 09:12 AM |
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Jeremiah is right tho. Ashan rules are in proportion of 90% obeying our laws of physics. And not just that, there are elements that closely resemble our reality's without a valid reason. For example the preservation of bodily proportions in heroes and creatures. Male and female genders. Nature with plants and trees not different from our own.
And this is true with every universe. I don't even know why you fail to understand this. It's not like it's rocket science. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 09:12 AM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
ok, so a lot of disagreement comes from you taking the definition of fantasy completely literal.
so, the disagreement comes from the fact that i understand the definition of fantasy? sure, i'll agree with that.
JeremiahEmo said:
Yes, I agree, anything goes in fantasy.
it's about time.
JeremiahEmo said:
However, don't expect people to receive it positively if you'll stretch too far away from what people expects from fantasy.
the only thing i expected in this discussion, is for you to know the difference between fantasy and reality, and that fantasy is subjective. so is "reality" in certain aspects, but that's another discussion, and more meant for the osm.
JeremiahEmo said:
And panzers and fantasy just don't mix.
this is subjective. you stating this, doesn't make it so. you DO realize this, right?
JeremiahEmo said:
I mean you can add panzers in fantasies but its modern concept would take away from the magical feel of what people generally expects of a fantasy.
what people expect from anything is also subjective. that's why you had people who liked Forge, and people who didn't. the problem is, the people who decried Forge as "untrue to fantasy", ended up getting the Forge idea stifled. i take issue with people who push their agendas on others when it stifles creativity, or any expansion of thought away from any norm.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 09:28 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 09:32, 08 Jul 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
Anyway, you keep ignoring my point over and over again. In Ashan, roses are still red and violets are still blue, you know what I mean?
Gravity still makes apples fall and fire can still hurt you. You can't just make anything just because you feel like it, you have to base most of it from the real world.
Yes, because our world has a bunch of demons camped out in the centre in an alternate dimension.
JeremiahEmo said:
In fantasy, YOU CAN'T MAKE JUST ANYTHING YOU WANT. Try making a fantasy wherein 2 year old babies are physically stronger than full grown adults and let's see if people will take your fantasy seriously.
Indeed, but there is exactly nothing beyond male-chauvinism that prevent you from 'creating' a humanoid race where the females are bigger and stronger than the males.
Stevie said:
Jeremiah is right tho. Ashan rules are in proportion of 90% obeying our laws of physics. And not just that, there are elements that closely resemble our reality's without a valid reason. For example the preservation of bodily proportions in heroes and creatures. Male and female genders. Nature with plants and trees not different from our own.
Dragon don't exist on earth, and physics would prevent them flying of they did. Hells, elementals in and of themselves would be physically impossible on earth. You may want to revise that 90% figure, in the downwards direction.
JeremiahEmo said:
And panzers and fantasy just don't mix. I mean you can add panzers in fantasies but its modern concept would take away from the magical feel of what people generally expects of a fantasy.
Try reading stuff from the Warhammer verse sometime, which may not quite as far as panzers, but does include tanks.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:06 AM |
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MattII said:
Stevie said:
Jeremiah is right tho. Ashan rules are in proportion of 90% obeying our laws of physics. And not just that, there are elements that closely resemble our reality's without a valid reason. For example the preservation of bodily proportions in heroes and creatures. Male and female genders. Nature with plants and trees not different from our own.
Dragon don't exist on earth, and physics would prevent them flying of they did. Hells, elementals in and of themselves would be physically impossible on earth. You may want to revise that 90% figure, in the downwards direction.
Not at all. I'm actually being very generous with that percentage. And a dragon is more abiding to our elements of reality that you'd imagine. They have wings, skin, torso, arms and legs, hands, fingers, claws, tail, head, teeth, tongue, eyes, ears, and many other. Why would a parallel universe have beings with such features? Eyes to perceive light? Why would there be light? Ears to hear? Why would there be resonance? Tongues to taste? Why would there be taste?
And seriously, why would a Magma Dragon for example need all those? There is no reason for lava to develop body parts which it cannot use or benefit from. But I'm going to assume that they actually CAN use them and see light and hear sounds, through.. magic. Therefore the 10%. That doesn't excuse the fact that in doing so they have eyes and ears which are totally borrowed from our reality.
And that's just one example. Consider the gazillion feature that Ashan displays that are exactly like ours.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:29 AM |
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^ also, notice that none of the elementals in Ashan can talk. Why? Because they have no mouth!
This alone follows the very concept of our reality.
And I don't know why you think physics won't allow dragons from flying. They have wings big enough to support their entire body don't they?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:31 AM |
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this conversation has jumped off of the deep end. i'm not participating anymore. you guys have fun.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:41 AM |
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Edited by Steyn at 10:51, 08 Jul 2014.
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You clearly have not played heroes 6, as the elementals DO talk (and have mouths) there.
And no, the dragon's wings are not big enough. Try comparing them with a bird of prey or a pterosaur.
Also, who came up with the idea to put armor on the griffins?! They would need a huge amount of (extra) magic to be able to fly like that  (though it does look cool).
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:54 AM |
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Stevie said:
Not at all. I'm actually being very generous with that percentage. And a dragon is more abiding to our elements of reality that you'd imagine. They have wings, skin, torso, arms and legs, hands, fingers, claws, tail, head, teeth, tongue, eyes, ears, and many other. Why would a parallel universe have beings with such features? Eyes to perceive light? Why would there be light? Ears to hear? Why would there be resonance? Tongues to taste? Why would there be taste?
The laws of physics prevent their flight, and I don't think I've seen a good reason yet to explain their breathing fire.
Quote:
And that's just one example. Consider the gazillion feature that Ashan displays that are exactly like ours.
Now consider how Ashan came to be.
JeremiahEmo said:
And I don't know why you think physics won't allow dragons from flying. They have wings big enough to support their entire body don't they?
There's this little thing we call the square-cube law, Look it up some time. And while you're at it, look up the definitions of physics and fantasy, you may be in for some surprises.
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 10:55 AM |
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Idk about Heroes 6 but in Heroes 5, dragon wings were definitely big enough.
And yes, I didn't and will never play heroes 6. A lot of the people here knows why. I would prefer to ignore Heroes 6 completely. It was really that bad all around. I mean bad selection of creatures, irritating bugs, no Academy and Sylvan, boring storyline (based on what I read) and so many more. It's worst than Heroes 4 in my opinion.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 11:16 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:19, 08 Jul 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
Idk about Heroes 6 but in Heroes 5, dragon wings were definitely big enough.
The largest flying animals alive today weigh in at about 20kg, which is probably the upper limit. Dragons on the other hand probably weigh that many tons, and with thier wings would only be able to fly if you scaled them down to the size of perhaps a turkey.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 11:37 AM |
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MattII said:
The laws of physics prevent their flight, and I don't think I've seen a good reason yet to explain their breathing fire.
Dub it Magic. You still have 90% of the elements of a dragon which were borrowed from our own world, with flight and fire breathing being the only ones defying laws of physics.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 08, 2014 12:06 PM |
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Sorry for derailing your thread so much Xerox. I'm really happy to see the shifters here, as I love the idea of a shape shifting druid. However I would rather make them elite tier, but that would probably mess up your unit synergy 
Personally I am not such a fan of using blown-up versions of real creatures, but with the story and background you provided you managed to make the mantices quite intersting champions. Still I would prefer the treant/dendroid in that position. Defenitely not the heroes 5 green dragon. An earth aligned dragon should not be able to fly. A heroes 3 like crystal dragon would be fine, but then a replacement has to be found for magmazilla.
I agree with you that two treant-like creatures is a bit too much, but I wouldn't keep the dryad as imho it's quite similar to the pixie. However, I can't think of any good replacement. All creatures I can come up with are real animals: Stag (CoH), lynx (artwork) or bear (should be with the dwarves).
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