|
| Thread: H6 Sylvan - Xerox Edition. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
posted July 08, 2014 12:10 PM |
|
Edited by MattII at 12:21, 08 Jul 2014.
|
Stevie said:
Dub it Magic. You still have 90% of the elements of a dragon which were borrowed from our own world, with flight and fire breathing being the only ones defying laws of physics.
"Well they break the laws of physics, but only in some ways" is not a solid defence. Now once you add in the pretty much the entire Academy, Inferno and Necropolis factions, plus copious violations from from the others, and that '90%' is looking a bit false.
Furthermore, there is no law of physics that states that females must be weaker than males, it's merely a biological convention that doesn't even hold for all mammals.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 12:29 PM |
|
|
I'm not defending anything. I'm saying that in Ashan, as in any other universe, the amount of elements borrowed from our own reality is vast. And I expressed that by giving a personal approximation, 90%. I won't argue the number because it's not something to be measured precisely. I'm debating the idea: Any universe imagined (and imaginable) by man is based on experience of reality and will inevitably have a majority of elements borrowed from it.
I think I'm done here myself.
|
|
JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 01:09 PM |
|
|
MattII said:
Stevie said:
Dub it Magic. You still have 90% of the elements of a dragon which were borrowed from our own world, with flight and fire breathing being the only ones defying laws of physics.
"Well they break the laws of physics, but only in some ways" is not a solid defence. Now once you add in the pretty much the entire Academy, Inferno and Necropolis factions, plus copious violations from from the others, and that '90%' is looking a bit false.
Furthermore, there is no law of physics that states that females must be weaker than males, it's merely a biological convention that doesn't even hold for all mammals.
but Inferno, Academy and Necropolis actually based their systems on logic. Not like Xerox's idea of women are stronger than men and that's it. There's no logic involved. Not hating, just stating observations. For instance Academy and Necropolis' creation have puppet masters. These machines and animated corpses doesn't just function on their own and be on their way, you know what I mean?
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 01:16 PM |
|
|
MattII said:
The largest flying animals alive today weigh in at about 20kg, which is probably the upper limit. Dragons on the other hand probably weigh that many tons, and with thier wings would only be able to fly if you scaled them down to the size of perhaps a turkey.
Not entirely true. The current estimate of the upper limit of weight in a species capable of powered flight ranges between 200-250 kg. This the estimate weight of Quetzalcoatlus Northropi one of the heaviest and largest Pterosaurs capable of powered flight.
This, however, is not meant to undercut your argument that the likely tons weighing Dragons need to have a far far greater wingspan to be capable of powered flight. In comparison, the Quetzalcoatlus Northropi was roughly the size of a giraffe, had a wingspan of 10-11 m and, as said, is estimated to have weighed between 200-250 kg. This, likely, made them extremely fragile.
Dragons on the other hand seem to be too robust and fat to be propelled into the air by their muscle power alone.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 02:09 PM |
|
|
This thread has been derailed into a ridiculous discussion xD
JeremiahEmo said:
but Inferno, Academy and Necropolis actually based their systems on logic.
The logic of imagination? lol
If Ashan writers decide that female Dark Elves are stronger than male counterparts, there's nothing wrong about it. Writers have the freedom to change real life laws as they wish. Be elementals, dragons flying & spitting fire, dwarves or female stronger than men.
____________
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 09:09 PM |
|
Edited by MattII at 21:26, 08 Jul 2014.
|
JeremiahEmo said:
but Inferno, Academy and Necropolis actually based their systems on logic. Not like Xerox's idea of women are stronger than men and that's it. There's no logic involved. Not hating, just stating observations.
Observations through a world view that's so male-chauvinist that it's an affront to modern society
War-overlord said:
Not entirely true. The current estimate of the upper limit of weight in a species capable of powered flight ranges between 200-250 kg. This the estimate weight of Quetzalcoatlus Northropi one of the heaviest and largest Pterosaurs capable of powered flight.
The atmosphere was different back then (higher oxygen level I believe), what with the 100-ton grazers and metre-long dragonflies and all.
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 09:43 PM |
|
|
MattII said:
War-overlord said:
Not entirely true. The current estimate of the upper limit of weight in a species capable of powered flight ranges between 200-250 kg. This the estimate weight of Quetzalcoatlus Northropi one of the heaviest and largest Pterosaurs capable of powered flight.
The atmosphere was different back then (higher oxygen level I believe), what with the 100-ton grazers and metre-long dragonflies and all.
Read the second link. Scientific consensus is that the levels of oxygen weren't of such an effect that such Pterosaurs would not be able to fly in the modern day atmosphere.
Or to say it without multiple negative, Pterosaurs could fly nowadays had they still lived.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 10:09 PM |
|
|
|
I hate to sound like a creationist, but 'scientific consensus' is not proof (especially not where dinosaurs are concerned), and while I don't doubt that they could fly today, whether they could do so while not dying of anoxia is a different point.
|
|
War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
|
|
posted July 08, 2014 10:21 PM |
|
|
MattII said:
I hate to sound like a creationist, but 'scientific consensus' is not proof (especially not where dinosaurs are concerned), and while I don't doubt that they could fly today, whether they could do so while not dying of anoxia is a different point.
That may be the case, but as far as dinosaurs are concerned that's the best we got. Since the things have been extinct for 65 million year or more and time travel to that period is an impossibility, that's what we gotta work with.
Biomechanically there's nothing stopping them and that is mathematically provable.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 09, 2014 11:15 PM |
|
|
Fair enough.
As to the original topic, the unicorn feels a little out-of-place, although I've always felt this anyway, it's always seemed to me to be more of a 'high-elf' kind of creature than a 'wood-elf' one. Maybe a deer of some sort instead (at least 14 different cultures across Eurasia have a mythical stag of some form, not to mention spliced creatures like the peryton)?
|
|
JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 05:49 AM |
|
|
I agree. I never thought those Unicorns fit the wood elf team.
This should be the Sylvan lineup for Heroes 7. Or should I say.. Preserve.
Creatures
Core
1. Pixie
Upgrades: Nymph and Dryad
2. Wolf
Upgrades: Pack Master and Dire Wolf
3. Blade Dancer
Upgrades: War Dancer and Wind Dancer
Elite
4. Ranger
Upgrades: Hunter and Forest Warden
5. Druid
Upgrades: Druid of Sylanna and Druid of Ylath (which would make sense since Preserve is now on the process of abandoning Sylanna and worshiping Ylath)
6. Beastmaster
Upgrades: Beast King and Shapeshifter
Champion
7. Treant
Upgrades: Ancient Treant and Raging Treant
Heroes
1. Ranger - Wyngaal, Anwen and Vinrael. Focusing on might.
They can have skills that focuses on hunting: traps, scouting, logistics, etc or archery and avenger.
2. Beastmaster - Talanar, Gilraen and a new H7 hero - balance between might and magic
focuses on summoning creatures like the Beast King or go to the shapeshifting route whcih is transforming creatures to higher elven creatures which has its own strengths and weaknesses
3. Druid - 3 new H7 heroes - focuses on magic
focuses on earth magic or air magic.
Campaign:
Act One: Irollan was consumed by the demons. This is all about finding a new homeland on the western continent.
Main Hero - Wyngaal. While you can choose however you want to develop Wyngaal, it's fairly obvious that developing him in archery would give him the best result
Secondary Hero - Vinrael - support hero. He's a hunter by heart and it would be in your best interest to develop him as a hunter.
Act Two: Fairies are not pleased with the Elves sharing their homeland. The Elves will have to use force to rid themselves of their enemy fairies.
Main Hero: Jeremiah - Jeremiah is a Druid who always believed in Ylath. He was condemned by his fellow Druids for worshiping Ylath over Sylanna. Now, the tables have turned. Elves are abandoning Sylanna and going to Ylath. Jeremiah will prove to the Elves that Ylath is the better deity while destroying their Fairy enemy in the process.
Support Heroes - Vinrael and Wyngaal
Act Three: With their new homeland established, a large group of demonic forces followed them from across the ocean. They will have to defend themselves of their demonic foes while choosing to answer to the aid of their old allies, the Wizards of the Silver Cities, who are still in the old continent to rid the world of demons for good.
Main Hero: Talanar - Talanar is very skewed towards being developed as a Beast King but he's also good as a Shapeshifter.
Support Heroes - Vinrael, Wyngaal and Jeremiah
|
|
zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 06:12 AM |
|
|
JeremiahEmo said:
Creatures
1. Pixie
7. Treant
Elves are abandoning Sylanna and going to Ylath.
wut.
Why would pixies and treants stay with the elves
I mean you said the elves are starting to worship Ylath
And with treants and pixies kinda being essences of the earth
If I was a treant I wouldn't stay with people who dont worship the earth
Also
JeremiahEmo said:
Act Two
Main Hero
Jeremiah
Self Insert?
|
|
Steyn
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 09:12 AM |
|
|
MattII said:
Fair enough.
As to the original topic, the unicorn feels a little out-of-place, although I've always felt this anyway, it's always seemed to me to be more of a 'high-elf' kind of creature than a 'wood-elf' one. Maybe a deer of some sort instead (at least 14 different cultures across Eurasia have a mythical stag of some form, not to mention spliced creatures like the peryton)?
How about the forest spirit from Mononoke Hime instead of the unicorn?
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 11:24 AM |
|
|
|
Possible I suppose, but what sort of abilities could be given to it?
|
|
Steyn
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 11:37 AM |
|
Edited by Steyn at 11:38, 10 Jul 2014.
|
He could change the combat terrain to forest/grass 
I think in the movie he also has some healing powers...
What would a stag have as abilities?
|
|
MattII
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 12:00 PM |
|
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 01:29 PM |
|
|
|
I feel Sylvan should be more Sage-like than what I've seen so far in Heroes. Pixies and unicorns are more fairy-like. A more druidic mood would be much more on my taste. Spirit creatures (not necessarily immaterial) would fit the faction better imo. Something like that picture above. A shapeshifter would be nice too..
|
|
Steyn
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 01:42 PM |
|
Edited by Steyn at 13:43, 10 Jul 2014.
|
MattII said:
Charge bonus.
I could also see that working, though he looks a bit old. Make him a bit more muscular and the antlers a little sharper and he will have a pretty menacing charge. Still I would prefer him terraforming the battlefield Especially if there would be some forest terrain with lots of undergrowth that hampers you opponent this could be quite a nice ability. It would also fit nicely with those tree hugging elves that want to protect the forest.
I would anyway like to see a more pronounced role for the battlefield terrain. Especially with spells there can be more battlefield influence. Fire and ice spells should destroy your grassy terrain. Ice spells should have a reduced duration on lava and desert terrains, while the durations is increased on snowy battlefields.
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 01:44 PM |
|
|
zipzopzoobity said:
JeremiahEmo said:
Act Two
Main Hero
Jeremiah
Self Insert?
ROFL 
____________
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted July 10, 2014 10:29 PM |
|
|
Unicorn and Hunter/Elf are the only creatures which have been in all Sorceress/Rampart/Preserve/Sylvan towns. I think they should stay for the sake of continuity. I'd probably make a H7 Sylvan something like this, using a four tier system:
Lv1. Pixie, Hunter
Lv2. Terratoise, Dryad
Lv3. Unicorn, Griffin (I think its time Haven got something new)
Lv4. Faerie Dragon (love these guys, an original type of dragon!)
You have traditional creatures in the Hunter, Unicorn and Pixie, old favourites like the Griffin and Faerie Dragon returning aswell as two new creatuures in the Terratoise and Dryad.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
|
|
