Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Origins of Life
Thread: The Origins of Life
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 28, 2011 03:37 PM
Edited by Corribus at 15:40, 28 Apr 2011.

The Origins of Life

Greetings HC –

I know the Origin of Life has been discussed here before, mostly in the context of other threads, but I wanted to share some new scientific research studies that were published in the last few months that might shed some light on this topic.  

1. Scientists discover amino acids in primordial soup.

The first study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, reanalyzed some samples from the famous Miller-Urey experiment that was conducted in the 1950s.  The actual research article can be found here and a summary published in Time Magazine can be found here.  Most likely you don’t have access to PNAS so you’ll have to be content with the abstract.

In case you aren’t familiar with the Miller Urey experiment, Miller and Urey essentially took some elementary gasses that were likely present in Earth’s primordial atmosphere (water, ammonia, carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulfide), sealed them in a jar, and subjected them to pressure changes, sparks and heat to simulate environmental conditions like weather, lightning and volcanism.  Then they analyzed the contents and found evidence of numerous amino acids – suggesting that, given time, this soup of gasses could react to give some of the basic building blocks of biological proteins.  (Which, presumably, could organize and start building primitive life forms like viruses, etc.).

Some of Miller and Urey’s vials were sealed and then recently opened and re-examined using more modern instrumentation (high-performance liquid chromatography and a very sensitive type of mass spectrometry), which is the paper linked above.  What scientists recently found is that Miller and Urey’s vials contained more amino acids than initially thought, as well as some other complex amines and organic molecules.  Scientists found over 23 amino acids in these new experiments.  Moreover, according to the article’s published summary, “The simulated primordial conditions used by Miller may serve as a model for early volcanic plume chemistry and provide insight to the possible roles such plumes may have played in abiotic organic synthesis. Additionally, the overall abundances of the synthesized amino acids in the presence of H2S are very similar to the abundances found in some carbonaceous meteorites, suggesting that H2S may have played an important role in prebiotic reactions in early solar system environments.”

2. Origin-of-life implications for synthetic RNA

In this work, published in Science, scientists developed RNA molecules that can synthesize new RNAs up to ~100 base pairs in length or that can assemble a RNA that is itself an active enzyme.  It’s long been thought that the original genetic material was RNA and not DNA, and with this study scientists have shown that a precursor may well have been an RNA that is able to replicate itself and create a broad array of RNA sequences – that is, a single RNA that self-creates genetic diversity.  This is a big step forward in our understanding of the origins of genetic replication.

3. Origin of life implications for comet and meteorite chemical roots

Finally, we return to PNAS for another study with implications about the origin of life.  While primordial gasses may have been sufficient for the generation of organic molecules (Miller Urey experiment), another possibility that may have contributed is organic material brought here by meteorites.  In the present experiment, scientists have proven that the simple organic molecule, formaldehyde, is likely responsible for the carbon polymers well known to hitch a ride on inter-planetary objects like comets and meteorites, and be deposited here on earth when said objects make unexpected stops.  This rich carbon source may have contributed to some of the early diversity of functionalized organic molecules (amino acids, nucelotides, amines, etc) we often refer to as “primordial soup”.

So – any thoughts on this interesting topic?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bLiZzArdbOY
bLiZzArdbOY


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted April 28, 2011 03:45 PM

Tagged for later. My initial thoughts were food-related so I took it to the VW.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 28, 2011 04:00 PM

My first thought is, that it doesn't really help. While it would seem to counter any line of thought going into the direction that "life" would be too complex and complicated that its development could be happenstance - since it would seem more like a matter of course now than complex - the next question would be, then, how it CAN be a matter of course, that is, a highly likely development.

Which is the question, that, if I remember right, Corribus, we both have asked anyway, since we both were certain that the fact that there is life would suggest that it HAD TO develop (and therefore ain't happenstance), but the question still remains whether there is some "purpose" or "meaning" behind that.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted April 28, 2011 08:04 PM

Quote:
an RNA that is able to replicate itself and create a broad array of RNA sequences – that is, a single RNA that self-creates genetic diversity.  This is a big step forward in our understanding of the origins of genetic replication.
Is there more on this? Replication and self-replication, is it a feature of organic matter only, when and how it first happened, why does it occur, did it take place before self-organization, etc.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 28, 2011 08:24 PM

@Vlaad

There is some information about ribozymesat Wikipedia.

More generally, autocatalysis (a chemical species being able to catalyze it's own synthesis) is not something that is particularly new or rare in chemistry.  There are a number of examples.  The fact that most reactions lead commonly to a small portion of side products suggests that some inorganic (or "nonliving" organic) systems may undergo "evolutionary" processes that we ordinarily associate with living creatures.  That is, reaction side products might be seen as mutants that get weeded out in the same sort of selection process that living mutations do.

Think of it this way.  Say you have a molecule that is able to catalyze its own synthesis.  We'll call it A.  So A goes along and makes more and more copies of A, but occasionally there's an error and B and C and D are produced.  Many of these do not have the capability to reproduce themselves.  But a few of them (F, for example) actually do it faster than A.  After some time, F outcompetes A at reproduction, so that eventually there are no A's and only F's.  Then H comes along which is even better, but maybe more complex, than F, and we can imagine that maybe H only works better in humid environments.  Then years later you have only H's near the oceans but A's in the deserts.  

I think maybe you can see then how a simple autocatalytic chemical can, given time, create great diversity in "living" systems.  These systems get more and more complex - what was once simple molecules are now huge polymeric structures (proteins, DNAs) that are even better at ensuring their own reproduction.  Eventually, they start to resemble something we'd call a 'living creature'.

Of course, at what point do you consider something to be living?  That requires some sort of definition I suppose.

@JJ

I'm confused.  What makes you think there has to BE a purpose?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 28, 2011 10:26 PM

I'm missing the right word, because purpose is conveying the wrong message.
Since I'm realizing that I'm unable to explain what I actually mean - which very probably means that it's just a... hunch -, simply forget that I wrote it.
It's something strange with complex organic life, and I entertain the idea that it might be a way "round the laws of thermodynamics", which in turn makes it strange that the development of organic life would be somewhat inevitable.
Sorry, can't really nail the thought down to something palpable, so I take it back.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread »
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0395 seconds