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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime [ This thread is 55 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 (14) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 ]
Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 28, 2012 06:09 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 06:10, 28 Jul 2012.

It costs less than a shotgun, trust me.

in my country, if the letter is of high priority, you need to sign a paper when you receive it. idk about US.
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I regret nothing, I expect nothing.
NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE!

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 28, 2012 11:13 AM

And what if you are not home?
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 28, 2012 04:44 PM

They leave a notification. Thing is, they are obliged to try to deliver it personally first.

In this scenario this would mean getting shot in the head
____________
I regret nothing, I expect nothing.
NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE!

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Ω Sunt lacrimae rerum Ω
posted July 28, 2012 05:04 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 17:06, 28 Jul 2012.

Well the guy hasn't shot his postman, and he was pretty crazy (from what I've read), so I don't see your point.
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 28, 2012 05:23 PM

There was no point, I was simply wondering why he didn't gun down any delivery man with that kind of attitude
____________
I regret nothing, I expect nothing.
NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE!

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted July 28, 2012 07:06 PM

I guess the postal service actually respect the signs?
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted July 28, 2012 07:14 PM

Packages still have to be delivered to the door, and they have to be signed for if the person is home. A mailbox isn't the "End all" of mailman homicide...

Other than that, there really would be no reason for someone to ignore the signs. Unless they were blind or illiterate. Right?
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"GNOMES GET OUT OF MY BRAIN"
-Adrius

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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 28, 2012 07:36 PM

what mailman? I've never seen one of those in my entire life
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Over himself, over his own body and
mind, the individual is sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted July 28, 2012 09:28 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 21:43, 28 Jul 2012.

Quote:
I'm getting the impression that in the US you need a bulletproof vest and a combat helmet if you need to enter someone's property for whatever non-malicious reason. And this is considered normal. Well...





I dont think that the sales-guy had to die but... selling crap to some guy with no trespassing signs sure should have made him see this crap coming.

Again, landmines on the lawn, automatic chain turrets and a tank should be the new standard of homelawn security.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 29, 2012 09:14 AM

Quote:
Other than that, there really would be no reason for someone to ignore the signs. Unless they were blind or illiterate. Right?


or you want to piss off the guy but don't know he is dangerous.

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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted July 30, 2012 12:51 AM

Speaking from personal experience, Fauch?
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"GNOMES GET OUT OF MY BRAIN"
-Adrius

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 30, 2012 06:14 AM

If you go to someone's house with the express intent of pissing them off you are asking for trouble and being extraordinarily stupid. If you go on someone's land when there are clearly marked no tresspassing signs you are breaking the law and also being extremely stupid.
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Revelation

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2012 06:36 AM

If being stupid and breaking the law were reasonable and valid grounds for killing someone, we had an all-out war to the last man standing.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 30, 2012 07:38 AM

Refer to page 13 where I said, "Of course I don't believe the man was justified in shooting the salesman assuming things occured the way the article was written." But that does not change the fact that the salesman was committing a crime by trespassing and that he was behaving very foolishly. I guess being a pushy salesman intruding where you are not welcome can be very dangerous.
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Revelation

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2012 07:51 AM

I think the no trespassing signs can be an inducement to trespass

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 30, 2012 08:03 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 08:04, 30 Jul 2012.

Being pushy is part of the salesmen job description. You don't have to like them or their intrusive behaviour (I don't) but if you have a single brain cell not infected by lethal paranoia, you will figure out that one such person is just doing his job and ask him to leave, maybe call the police if he dawdles too much and his presence gets on your nerves (or kick him in the butt if you're in a really bad mood - most people will dig the message). Killing him just because he has entered your property though is beyond idiotic, signs or no signs. He may have been stupid but if stupidity was a valid reason for taking someone's life, the planet would have be depopulated within an year.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2012 09:20 AM

It is more about how much is needed before you lose your minds.

Salesmen can be terribly annoying, you put one sign, they still enter, ten signs same, they simply consider you a money purse, not a human. Here where I live, they do their job by phone, I get several calls everyday and have a only wish, send them in hell. There is no way to avoid this other than a pit bull or put your phone number on red list, both situations having serious disadvantage.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 30, 2012 09:22 AM

I disagree that it is a salesman's job to trespass. If I came home to find a salesman sitting on my front porch swing I'd certainly file trespassing charges on him.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 30, 2012 10:20 AM

Quote:
Refer to page 13 where I said, "Of course I don't believe the man was justified in shooting the salesman assuming things occured the way the article was written." But...
There is no "But". He's either justified or he is not. After all, someone died. Bottom line is, he shot a man down who was unarmed, and exceuted him cold-bloodedly, and in my book that means he's earned himself a place behind the hopefully safe bars of an asylum.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 30, 2012 10:27 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Refer to page 13 where I said, "Of course I don't believe the man was justified in shooting the salesman assuming things occured the way the article was written." But...
There is no "But". He's either justified or he is not. After all, someone died. Bottom line is, he shot a man down who was unarmed, and exceuted him cold-bloodedly, and in my book that means he's earned himself a place behind the hopefully safe bars of an asylum.


You seem to be having great difficulty comprehending what I wrote. I said the man was wrong for killing the salesman but that the salesman was also wrong for trespassing. Me saying the salesman was also wrong was not in any way saying the shooter was justified for shooting the salesman as I clearly stated the shooter was not justified in shooting the trespasser.

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