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| Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime |  This thread is pages long: 1 10 20 ... 29 30 31 32 33 ... 40 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gnomes2169
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posted September 24, 2012 06:31 PM |
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Basically, you're getting a John Doe with better aim, psychological conditioning, training to spot risk factors and dangerous individuals, and the ability to know right and wrong in every situation as it pertains to the law. You are not getting superman, who can see through flesh and bone to spot a small concealed weapon, nor are you getting an inhuman robot that lacks nerves, fear or a self of sense preservation. It wouldn't be a good idea to have one of those running around anyway, the robots would eventually become terminators and create Sky Net and then humanity is ******.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Zenofex
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posted September 24, 2012 06:43 PM |
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Yes, they are humans but that's hardly an excuse. The vast majority of the humans will figure out that a semi-mobile person in a mental institution where it's unlikely the patients to get hold of a knife isn't a threat worthy of a bullet in the head. And that's even without the whole training and alleged "conditioning". Frankly the problem seems to be that the policemen are (or feel) authorized to kill whenever they can't come up with something better according to the limitations of their brain, if there's a threat of any degree.
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gnomes2169
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posted September 24, 2012 06:54 PM |
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Part of their training is actually to ignore what we consider common sense once a threat reaches a certain point and to deal with the threat as quickly as possible before it has the possibility of escalating. Being high-strung, jumpy and seeing someone stab your girlfriend in the past (from the article) that threshold allot lower when an officer sees their buddy being allegedly stabbed by someone...
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Zenofex
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posted September 24, 2012 07:03 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:54, 24 Sep 2012.
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That doesn't really explain why they seem quite happy to remove the threat by killing its originator. Witnessing someone stabbing another person with a knife and shooting the former is by far not the same thing as gunning down a half-disabled cuckoo who might be holding some dangerous object and who could have been dealt with in 100 non-lethal ways.
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Fauch
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posted September 24, 2012 07:31 PM |
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threatened by a double-amputee in a wheelchair with a pen : "oh god, I'm so gonna die! I want my mum!" 
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OhforfSake
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Initiate
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posted September 25, 2012 02:40 AM |
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It looks like a rather amazing coincidence how fitting today's cyanide and happiness is on the current topic of the thread:
Obviously it's always a mistake whenever force is applied against any individual. However those applying the force usually see it as the best viable option left. Can we expect in this particular incident that the police could have found another viable option, which did not require force? Given the circumstances, it looks like an obvious 'yes', to me.
In some countries, the police does not even carry guns, only special officers do. Obviously, any gunning down would be impossible for any law abiding standard officer then. But does it make for a better society? I don't think anyone can convince everyone either way.
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Fauch
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posted September 25, 2012 03:32 AM |
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technically, with only one hand, the guy can't manoeuvrate his wheelchair and attempt to stab at the same time? how can you even get cornered?
maybe the guy was professor X
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Elodin
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posted September 25, 2012 03:39 AM |
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Quote:
threatened by a double-amputee in a wheelchair with a pen : "oh god, I'm so gonna die! I want my mum!"
Pens can actually be lethal weapons if you stab the right spot and can be modified to make quite good shanks. Lethal weapons can be made of just about anything. And of course the cop thought the attacking man had a knife.
Morons who refuse to stop when a cop says stop and who make aggressive moves towards a cop they have cornered have only themselves to blame for the consequences they suffer.
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Fauch
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posted September 25, 2012 03:55 AM |
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I guess wheelchairs are lethal weapons too
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del_diablo
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posted September 25, 2012 07:27 AM |
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Well, it depends on the pen. More frail plastic variants is not even capable of properly stabbing people anywhere, except the eyes. Studier ones, with decently shaped heads, could in theory rival a blunt stabbing knife or a knitting needle.
Then again, I would love to see somebody getting shot, while wielding yarn and a knitting needle. It does certainly prove a point, even if their hearing is just bad.
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GunFred
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posted September 25, 2012 02:48 PM |
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I think the police officers acted correctly. After all, the guy could have risen on his one leg, used his one arm to lift the wheelchair and then brutally bash them to death with the wheelchair. And the pen could have been one of those secret agent pens that can shoot darts or bullets.
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Salamandre
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posted September 25, 2012 02:54 PM |
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Quote:
Morons who refuse to stop when a cop says stop and who make aggressive moves towards a cop they have cornered have only themselves to blame for the consequences they suffer.
The problem in US is that they can't blame anymore on themselves, it looks like every time you don't agree with a cop you lose you life.
Seriously, I think that this kind of cops who get no other option than shooting in the head a double amputee "armed" with a pen, are a disgrace for the profession and for their country too.
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Doomforge
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posted September 25, 2012 07:11 PM |
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I can't believe you actually defend a guy who shot a mentally ill guy with one leg, one arm and a pen as a "weapon", Elodin. Wouldn't it be enough to move away from him, or (an extreme measure) knock the wheelchair down?
Cops shouldn't apply self-served justice. Their guns are for protection, intimidation and other factors, but not for being a tool for trigger-happy lawbringers.
People who panic at the very sign of threat and gun down a cripple because "he has a pen" are a disgrace to the Police. Why are they Policemen in the first place? Will they also gun down a kid with a spoon if he "acts suspicious"? disgusting.
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Vlaad
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ghost of the past
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posted September 28, 2012 06:55 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 18:57, 28 Sep 2012.
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Quote:
NEW FAIRFIELD, Conn. — A man fatally shot a masked teenager in self-defense outside his neighbor's house during what appeared to be an attempted late-night burglary and then discovered it was his son, state police said.
Police identified the dead boy as 15-year-old Tyler Giuliano, who was shot at about 1 a.m. Thursday in New Fairfield, a town along the New York line just north of Danbury.
A woman who was alone in the house believed someone was breaking in and called the teen's father, who lives next door, and he grabbed a gun and went outside to investigate, police said.
The father confronted someone wearing a black ski mask and black clothing and then fired his gun when the person went at him with a shiny weapon in his hand, police said.
When police officers arrived, the father was sitting on the grass next to the woman's home and the teen was lying in the driveway with gunshot injuries. The teen was pronounced dead at the scene, police said.
WTF.jpg
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del_diablo
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posted September 28, 2012 07:49 PM |
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I don't want to know about all the extra problems in that neighboorhood or area, that the media will never dig up and point out.
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Zenofex
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posted September 28, 2012 10:57 PM |
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Shoot first, ask questions later - why bother with any alternative when such an approach OBVIOUSLY produces excellent results?
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted September 28, 2012 11:00 PM |
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Amazing
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gnomes2169
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posted September 29, 2012 12:15 AM |
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Quote:
Amazing
Yes it is. And rather entertaining as well...
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Elodin
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posted December 04, 2012 10:54 AM |
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The police finally released a digital photo of Zimmerman the night he killed a teen who had attacked him. It pretty much blows away the prosecution's claim Zimmerman just gunned down the teen in cold blood (supposedly racially motivated because the teen was black.) There is also a tape that shows the back of Zimmerman's head bandaged where he was injured from the teen supposedly slamming his head into the concrete.
Bloody Zimmerman
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 16, 2012 01:26 AM |
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Quote:
You get a gun for one reason: killing. What else do you have in mind when buying a gun? That's the only thing the gun's good for.
Quote:
I see no utility in a gun other than killing. it's designed for it, and it's meant for it. Sure, you can goof around with it in the shooting range, have fun. But the purpose? killing. What else? Would you deny it?
These two are completely different subjects as I'm sure you know. I can use my assault rifle for toasting bread or earning a living on the shooting range as well as hunting and killing prey. So killing isn't the only thing the gun is good for.
Guns can be used for a multitude of purposes but were originally designed to kill. They have evolved since then. Same goes for knives.
You'd have a hard time killing someone with a wooden butter knife. Much easier with a filetknife. Similarly good luck for killing someone with a water pistol. Much easier with a bb gun.
Nail guns weren't designed for killing people yet they're capable of it. Swords weren't designed for spreading butter yet they're capable of it.
And surprise, surprise, most people don't go looking for a gun they have the easiest time killling people with!
That's just the states.
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