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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 30 31 32 33 34 ... 40 50 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
GunFred
GunFred


Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
posted December 16, 2012 02:56 AM

To JoonasTo...

Assault rifles are not exactly good at toasting bread and who the hell would pay you to shoot at a shooting range?! You want to hunt? Use a bow and arrow like a real man.

How have guns evolved? To become better at killing is the obvious answer. A household knife is a tool for cooking, eating or something else. Guns do not have a multitude of purposes though because they were ALWAYS designed to kill or threaten with death. Only Mr.Bean or H.Simpson would be dumb enough to use a gun as a non-killer tool.

So what if nail guns are capable of killing people? They have to be the way they are to perform their purpose and do not give them to children and bad people. I could use a broom to spread butter so why care if you can do it with a sword? all you need is any form of object that is able to scoop up butter and then spread it over a piece of bread.

"most people" being satisfied with handguns does not really stop a few people to with assault rifles to indiscriminatly murder anyone around them.

I honestly hope you did not think you were smart when you posted above JoonasTo. Rarely have I seen such complete BS from a seemingly smart guy. Normally I would ignore a post that either attacked or defended guns and enjoy a good read but the stupidity REALLY annoyed me and forced me to reply rudely. If you have to defend guns then at least use real arguments and explain why legal guns are good for society. Not embaressing clown logic.

If I somehow misunderstood you Joonas and you were only goofing around or something, then I apologize for overreacting.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 16, 2012 03:09 AM

Quote:
and explain why legal guns are good for society


They have the potential to make bad people go away, and in this recent incident, it has also the potential to make kiddies go to heaven sooner than without guns, personally I see this as a double win.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted December 16, 2012 10:00 AM

Quote:
Quote:
and explain why legal guns are good for society


They have the potential to make bad people go away, and in this recent incident, it has also the potential to make kiddies go to heaven sooner than without guns, personally I see this as a double win.


If the teachers had been armed the murderer would not have been able to murder 26 people. But since nobody but the murderer was armed he was able to murder as many people as he wanted to before he committed suicide.

Guns don't murder people. People murder people. Most liberals seem to have a rather difficult time comprehending that fact.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 16, 2012 11:31 AM

On the other hand, non-liberals have a difficult time to comprehend that while it's true that people kill people, and not guns, the quality of the gun decides about the NUMBER of them.

I don't think, the guy could have done what he did with a flintlock pistol or 2, while a flintlock pistol or 2 with a teacher would still have been enough to end it, although, while the guy was trying to load his guns, the effect would be te same to hit him over the head with the thing.

An assault rifle or machine pistol on the other hand...

So, yes, people kill people, but you don't have to make it too easy for them to kill a bunch of them, effortlessly, in no time. You don't allow anti-person mines to safeguard your home either.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 16, 2012 11:48 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 11:54, 16 Dec 2012.

I agree with Elodin, the teachers lacking firepower was a serious hindrance (in this instance at least). While I see the downsides to teachers having guns (children could get access to them) the school had a responsibility to protect the children, if I was one of the parents who lost their kids, I would sue the local governor for failing to safe-guard my child.

Here in England, we had a member of the police force permanently stationed at our school, though her main duty was to protect the school from possible assailants, or criminal activities, she also had a special task to educate children on the law and drugs, mainly during citizenship classes.

The point being, a stationed officer/sentry at schools seems like a good alternative to having armed teachers.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 16, 2012 11:55 AM

If you seriously consider arming a teacher as a mean to protect the children at school, then you should certainly stop for a moment, take a deep breath and instead think about how seriously ****** up the country which you are referring to is.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 16, 2012 11:59 AM

Quote:
If you seriously consider arming a teacher as a mean to protect the children at school, then you should certainly stop for a moment, take a deep breath and instead think about how seriously ****** up the country which you are referring to is.


Exactly.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 16, 2012 12:01 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 12:05, 16 Dec 2012.

Seriously, someone help me out, do people seriously look at everything in such a narrow minded way? From my perspective I put a pretty neutral point forward, I am utterly clueless how you got to the conclusion that I advocate arming teachers, all I can advise is that you re-read my post. I EVEN ****ing BOLDED MY PERSONAL CONCLUSION OUT FOR YOU, for christ's sake.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 16, 2012 12:05 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 12:06, 16 Dec 2012.

No, he's actually right. The only conclusion to everything gun-zealots make is that you need even more guns that you already have. Nice brainwashing by gun-market, but honestly, what would a gun for the teacher do when the guy enters the class and shoots him first?

You can't neglect that it's the bad guy that has the upper hand and initiative.

By the way, not calling you a gun zealot or something. I'm aiming this post at the idea (not necessarily yours), not at the poster.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 16, 2012 12:08 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 12:16, 16 Dec 2012.

Surprisingly, it is anti-gun people who seem to have the qualities of zealots.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 16, 2012 12:08 PM

Having a cop at school will only increase casualties by 1. How hard would be for a determined criminal to shot an extra bullet to some guy which has to hide constantly his weapon. There are no solutions-for USA, that's it-, but only daily drama, as it always has been. Next.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted December 16, 2012 12:36 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 21:40, 17 Dec 2012.

Here is a sollution for the classroom scenario where a guy comes in and tries to shoot everybody inside.

Install this in every classroom:



We need an automatic-manual turret revolution!


edit:

Mass Shootings in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeVG0C9HQc0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MEOf8zS_f4

Quote:
"The National Rifle Association says, 'Guns don't kill people. People do'. But I think the gun helps.
Eddie Izzar

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 17, 2012 09:30 PM

Quote:
what would a gun for the teacher do when the guy enters the class and shoots him first?


well, for him nothing, but the other teachers heard the gunshots and had time to hide the children. they would have had time to get armed as well.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted December 17, 2012 09:54 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 21:54, 17 Dec 2012.

Quote:


well, for him nothing, but the other teachers heard the gunshots and had time to hide the children. they would have had time to get armed as well.


I think teachers need a pay raise. Going to school has become a risky thing nowadays. I like the idea of training teachers military training...
But seriously speaking, some sort of static turret defense seems to me a good idea, non leathal if possible.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 17, 2012 10:10 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 22:13, 17 Dec 2012.

There's what? 98,817 public schools in the USA, a few getting attacked hardly instigates a nationwide multi-billion programme of teacher military training, or a pay raise, or bloody turrets. (that figure doesn't include high-schools or colleges)

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted December 17, 2012 10:29 PM

Quote:
There's what? 98,817 public schools in the USA, a few getting attacked hardly instigates a nationwide multi-billion programme of teacher military training, or a pay raise, or bloody turrets. (that figure doesn't include high-schools or colleges)


You are right of course. I just dont see anyone posting any ideas about this. I would like to hear about a good solution to these types of problems.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 17, 2012 10:49 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 22:49, 17 Dec 2012.

Quote:
You are right of course. I just dont see anyone posting any ideas about this. I would like to hear about a good solution to these types of problems.



Quote:
Here in England, we had a member of the police force permanently stationed at our school, though her main duty was to protect the school from possible assailants, or criminal activities, she also had a special task to educate children on the law and drugs, mainly during citizenship classes.

The point being, a stationed officer/sentry at schools seems like a good alternative to having armed teachers.


I posted this before, I'm assuming that you consider this as an inapt solution, if this is truly the case, I'd like to hear you criticisms.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted December 17, 2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

I posted this before, I'm assuming that you consider this as an inapt solution, if this is truly the case, I'd like to hear you criticisms.


The idea is fine. Its just that one officer seems to be too few for my imagination. Two maybe?

Also, Police officers may not have the experience or the desire to work with children or teenagers or students.
Also, I assumed that high schools in america already have an officer stationed there, which I thought was not sufficient.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Soli deo gloria
posted December 17, 2012 11:07 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 23:21, 17 Dec 2012.

I've found that police prefer to talk to young people, and tend to socialize here, especially in schools where they want to make an impression on young people and stamp out problems before they have a chance to manifest. The ones I met were friendly and a mixture of informal and formal which was nice, however I can't speak for the entire country, and I have no idea how American youths/parents/police would take to this.

Also, it's logical to assume that one experienced officer is capable of apprehending a young adult who likely has no experience with firearms.
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"What is a man? A miserable pile of secrets."

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 19, 2012 12:14 PM

That could be a start but I doubt that it will be very effective. It's not hard at all to catch the one person who can stop you off guard when you're just one of the many people at school and you're not waving your gun from the moment when you enter the building. And you don't need to be proficient in firearms to kill a large number of people - including the policeman - with some automatic weapon. And of course the said policeman will also be heavily restricted and probably won't even have his weapon loaded all the time - the school is place full of children after all. I don't think it requires a professional assassin to get past such an obstacle.

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