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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime
Thread: Right to Self Defense, Gun Ownership, and Deterence of Crime This thread is 55 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 40 ... 51 52 53 54 55 · «PREV / NEXT»
Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted April 30, 2011 04:48 PM
Edited by Darkshadow at 16:48, 30 Apr 2011.

Quote:
Ban of firearms is pretty important to avoid people of getting false impression that they can defend with a puny gun.

Some have no clue and think pretty highly of themselves just because they have a shotgun tucked under their bed.

Not allowing such people to get that shotgun in the first place is actually better than explaining to them how useless this weapon is in their hands, as we see on an obvious example.


Defend with a puny gun?

So the criminals are going to use artillery or something?

If a shotgun doesn't work, use more gun.
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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 04:48 PM

Here's what happens when you have guns in your home, true story

I was watching a movie (don't remember which one) at night, something scary (was 19 or something back then), went to sleep thinking of hot playboy bunnies with lesbian tendencies or something worthy of my dreams, at some point things went the wrong way, probably missunderstood the whole concept of lesbians not being into guys hence me LOL, im kiddin but it did turn into a nightmare anyhow, bad dreams, sweating my ass off, suddenly boom ! I wake up, heard a noise in the kitchen psycho killer movie, nightmare, kitchen noise yup I grabbed my gun and went investigating... I see a shadow holding a knife in the kitchen, I scream the snowy flakes out of my lungs, aim the gun and tell the shadow to drop it
lights get turned on, my dad is standing with a knife making a sandwich looking at me like WTF

Point of the story, guns lead to accidents, unless you have a really good reason, dont carry one

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Ohforfsake
Ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 30, 2011 05:02 PM

Well smithey, for the sake of completeness, let's assume you've travelled back in time to that exact same moment. However, I may or may not have replaced your dad with an actual knife carrying burglar. But one more twist, you can choose exactly what item you want, in stead of the gun. Now what would you choose? (I don't think this is an easy question and I don't know if there, today, exist an item, where you'll be safe, without having to put those you love into risk).

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 30, 2011 05:04 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 17:06, 30 Apr 2011.

Quote:

Defend with a puny gun?

So the criminals are going to use artillery or something?

If a shotgun doesn't work, use more gun.




Well let me use an example. My friend got mugged - in a way the muggers usually operate (not like Elodin's hollywood movies show). He had a big hood, someone that was walking behind him simply jumped to him and showed the hood on his head, covering his face. The other guy stuck a knife to his back and told him to give the money&phone. What could he do blinded and with a knife at his ribs? Do you think a puny gun would save him? He might as well carry a minigun with him to no avail.

Muggers, burglars and alike operate when you're not aware of them. The element of surprise eliminates their victim's chance to retaliate in any way, and once it happens, it doesn't matter if you're armed or not.

PREVENTION is what keeps you safe, not a shotgun under the bed. Also in home security (as I said before, the modern alarm systems are more than capable of minimizing the risks to nihil.) If someone sneaks in your home with the intention of killing you, he has a million times bigger chance of killing you than you have a chance to defend yourself. It's better to focus on not letting anyone get in, rather than picturing ridiculous scenarious of you blowing someone's head with a shotgun and then telling your daughter that everything's ok.
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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 05:15 PM
Edited by smithey at 17:17, 30 Apr 2011.

Quote:
Well smithey, for the sake of completeness, let's assume you've travelled back in time to that exact same moment. However, I may or may not have replaced your dad with an actual knife carrying burglar. But one more twist, you can choose exactly what item you want, in stead of the gun. Now what would you choose? (I don't think this is an easy question and I don't know if there, today, exist an item, where you'll be safe, without having to put those you love into risk).


Against a knife, I would choose a machete I guess, you can't shoot one off by mistake with that, however, in my parents home we had one of those doors you can't unlock from the outside and it was the third and the last floor so basically it couldnt of have been a burglar anyhow, but I get what you're saying however my friend once walked downstairs and saw a burgler standing in his living room... They looked at each other and the burgler ran away, I dont think you should be shooting and killing everyone who breaks into your home, a bit fanatic considering 95%+ of the burglars arent violent, a 15 year old troubled kid breaks into my place and I should shoot him dead ? I dont want to live with his death on my hands, somebody tries to kill you it's self defense but in the states they can just go on shooting whoever Think about it, you get drunk, miss your house, cant unlock it because you have the wrong key so you enter some other way... and you get shot ? Tooooo drastic IMO

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Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted April 30, 2011 05:17 PM

Quote:
I would choose a machete I guess


Just a heads up, you are more likely to cut your own arm off with a machete than to use it against someone else (unless you have like Gurkha training)
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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 05:20 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I would choose a machete I guess


Just a heads up, you are more likely to cut your own arm off with a machete than to use it against someone else (unless you have like Gurkha training)


I've seen the movie (horrible movie btw) so I'm well trained
(it was a joke man, baseball bat is the best way to go and it's not like burglars are looking for a fight, otehrwise they wouldnt be creeping around during night time)

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 30, 2011 05:20 PM

I would like to add, that I think if someone really really intends on killing you, he won't sneak into your house or anything like that.

I imagine, if he absolutely has to hit, while you're in your house, that he'll either:
a) Fire a good amount of homemade bombs into it (from safe distance), burning it down and luring on the outside, should you happen to run out, snipe you.
b) Remote control a truck into your house which he has tampered with, so it's basicly a moving bomb he can detonate from afar.
c) Simply snipe you whenever you are at your window.

It of course depends on what kind of area you live in. But really, if someone was out to get you, a gun is not worth anything at all, unless you actually went outside after "them" first, without even knowing who "them" are, or where to look for "them".

However, I think it'd be stupid to target you, while you're in your house. After all, you've all possibilities to set up decoys, traps, false positives, etc. It's about having home ground, as I see it, so it's more likely such a person would wait for you, to go where they want you to be, knowing for certain they've the right target, etc.


Which I think leads back to either:
A) The person is not intended in killing you and won't invade your home, while you're at home.
B) The person is really desperate and see no other alternatives, than to invade your home. (And how did said person come in such a situation then?)

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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 05:23 PM

Quote:
I would like to add, that I think if someone really really intends on killing you, he won't sneak into your house or anything like that.

I imagine, if he absolutely has to hit, while you're in your house, that he'll either:
a) Fire a good amount of homemade bombs into it (from safe distance), burning it down and luring on the outside, should you happen to run out, snipe you.
b) Remote control a truck into your house which he has tampered with, so it's basicly a moving bomb he can detonate from afar.
c) Simply snipe you whenever you are at your window.

It of course depends on what kind of area you live in. But really, if someone was out to get you, a gun is not worth anything at all, unless you actually went outside after "them" first, without even knowing who "them" are, or where to look for "them".

However, I think it'd be stupid to target you, while you're in your house. After all, you've all possibilities to set up decoys, traps, false positives, etc. It's about having home ground, as I see it, so it's more likely such a person would wait for you, to go where they want you to be, knowing for certain they've the right target, etc.


Which I think leads back to either:
A) The person is not intended in killing you and won't invade your home, while you're at home.
B) The person is really desperate and see no other alternatives, than to invade your home. (And how did said person come in such a situation then?)


LOL, let me just ask one question, ok three questions :

1. Do you have a little hit list/book ?
2. Am I on it ?
3. How far from Prague are you next week ?

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 30, 2011 05:27 PM

Quote:
1. Do you have a little hit list/book ?
2. Am I on it ?
3. How far from Prague are you next week ?


1) Yes!
2) Only girls are in it!
3) I am Prague!!

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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 05:33 PM

You are Prague ? Goddamnit, the whole "train journey to prague" just got a creepy twist...


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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 30, 2011 05:45 PM

Then just wait until you check out the Prague prostitutes! I can guarantee for some nice and nasty surprises! (Just ask jaba, bliz, selcy, or meroe, if you doubt me)

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1910
1910


Known Hero
posted April 30, 2011 05:47 PM

All I have to say is that I agree with DF's last post. Well said mate.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted April 30, 2011 05:54 PM

Here are some instances of people stopping home invaders by shooting them.


Video of home invaders fleeing for their life

Quote:

CCTV:Feb 05/09.Tucson,Arizona,A homeowner, alerted of an impending home invasion by his security cameras, arms himself and takes matters into his hands last Thursday when four armed suspects attempt to break into his home.

The video the owner caught is incredible. You see a vehicle pull up, and four men run out. One of them is carrying what appears to be an AR-15 or M-16, a weapon which could be fully automatic.

The robbery happened last Thursday in broad daylight at a home on West Vande Loo Street. All the action was caught by the homeowners outdoor surveillance system.

"The victim was able to get back inside his house, close his door, semi barricade it, reach for [a] weapon that was easily accessible," says Pima County Sheriff's Deputy Earl Gieron.

The homeowner shot at the suspects. He even put a bullet through the windshield of the suspects car, which is also caught on camera. The four men retreated and took off. All of them remain on the run.



Elderly man kills robber with gun while being mugged

Homeowner shoots burgular


Clicky

Quote:

HOUSTON – The tables were turned Thursday on a group of suspects who held a woman at gunpoint during a southeast Houston home invasion, according to Houston police.

Police said two men and one woman approached a unit in the Broadway Square Apartments located in the 8600 block of Broadway around 10:45 p.m. A man and a woman were home at the time.

The female suspect knocked on the door, then hid from view. The woman inside the home said she looked out the peep hole first, but after not seeing anyone, opened the door to look outside.

That is when one of the suspects, 33-year-old Miguel Antonio Valencia-Mejia, pushed his way into the residence, grabbed the woman’s hair and pointed a pistol at her head.

The woman’s boyfriend heard the commotion and retrieved his shotgun.

He rushed out of the bedroom and opened fire.

Valencia-Mejia was shot and died by the front door. The other two suspects fled the scene.

Police said no charges have been filed against the residents.



Clicky

Quote:

Suffolk County Police Homicide Squad detectives are investigating an incident during which a burglar was shot and killed by a resident in East Islip early this morning.  

Three men, one armed with a .22 caliber rifle, forcibly entered through a rear door at 60 East Adams St. at 12:19 a.m. Once inside the home, the armed man shot a dog. A male resident of the home, armed with a shotgun, confronted the men and shot two of them. The third man fled the scene.  

One man, who has yet to be identified, was pronounced dead at the scene by a physician assistant from the Office of the Suffolk County Medical Examiner. The second suspect, Justin Benkov, 25, of 221 Patchogue Ave., Mastic, was transported to Southside Hospital in Bay Shore where he is listed in critical condition. Benkov will be charged on an active warrant for Criminal Possession of a Controlled Substance 4th Degree.  

The man who fled the scene, Philipe Robinette, 27, of 4778 Sound Ave., Aquebogue, was located a short time late by Third Precinct Sergeant Paul Bowden. Robinette is charged with Burglary 1 st Degree. He will be arraigned at First District Court in Central Islip tomorrow.   The dog, a pit bull, is expected to survive.  



Home Invader shot in San Antonio

Anti gun Senator shoots intruder

Clicky

Quote:

A homeowner turned the tables on three fake FBI agents attempting a home invasion in Cooper City, Fla. Broward County deputies compared their poor attempt to the antics of The Three Stooges.

Just after 4 a.m. on July 12, three men were captured on surveillance video as they pulled into the driveway of a home in the 5000 block of SW 104 Avenue.

Two of the men went to the front door and the third waited with the vehicle and acted as a lookout.

The two at the front door attempt to use a crow bar to pry open the front door. When that didn't work, they tried to get in through the front window.

They were stopped in their tracks when the homeowner fired his .40-caliber pistol through the window at the crooks.

The suspects barely made it to the getaway car before the driver took off.



Clicky

Quote:

PEORIA, Ariz. -- A west Valley homeowner shot a man trying to break into his home and rob him.

"I didn't shoot to take the man's life," said John Kallas, a Vietnam veteran. "I only shot to protect myself."

Kallas said the 18-year-old intruder, later identified as Jason J. Rodriguez, 18, ignored his warnings to stop at the door.

"Then again I warned him," Kallas said. "He didn't comply. I fired my pistol."

The incident occurred early Thursday near 85th Avenue and Olive in Peoria.

Kallas, 62, said he aimed the gun at the intruder's right shoulder and then held him until police arrived.

"I hoped I'd never have to use it but I did have it for protection," he said.

Officers said they found the burglar's getaway car still parked outside with the engine running.

"It looks like he thought it was going to be an easy score for him," said Mike Tellef, Peoria Police Department spokesman.


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 30, 2011 05:56 PM

Here's some examples on people who can stand on their ears:

oh wait, it's not needed.I guess any sane person would deduce that a few examples don't prove a theory regarding a few billions of humans overall.

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smithey
smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted April 30, 2011 05:58 PM
Edited by smithey at 18:00, 30 Apr 2011.

Here's something as well

http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php

guess 500 kids a year is a price we are willing to pay for those four heroic stories


Here are just a few heartbreaking cases:

-On July 19, 4-year-old Dylan Jackson shot himself to death after finding a loaded gun at a friend's home during a birthday party.

- A 3-year-old Southeast Washington boy shot himself in the foot and grazed his hand while playing with his father's gun -- which he found lying on the floor.

- A 2-year-old Tampa boy shot himself in the chest with a loaded 9 mm he found in his parent's couch while playing.

- Last February, a 13-year-old boy shot himself with a semiautomatic handgun in the home of his guardian, a Maryland police officer.

- The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer died after shooting himself in the face with his father's loaded revolver. The boy found the weapon on a shelf in the basement while looking for a ball his mom had hidden.

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Warlord
Warlord


Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
posted April 30, 2011 06:01 PM
Edited by Warlord at 18:02, 30 Apr 2011.

The first one, he could have stood next to the door with a baseball bat and got the same result. It was the cameras that saved him. Then, with the one about the dog, if there was no dog he wouldn't have known the people were there. And in one of them, the person was a soldier, a Vietnam veteran. Most people aren't.

Talking to Elodin.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 30, 2011 06:03 PM

Those stories aren't heroic, they're horrible!
People not only breaking into eachothers homes, but shooting at eachother?

The main problem, in regard to the thread, I have with those stories, are not only are they only told from one viewpoint, they really lack information of what lead to these occurances in the first place!

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 30, 2011 06:06 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:08, 30 Apr 2011.

nice points, Smithey and Warlord

I would also question those people's psychic, killing a person, even in self defense, is most likely something that would haunt an "average" Joe for the rest of his life. In our society, an average person is pretty much expected to suffer a heavy trauma after taking a life, even in self defense.

Elodin, have you killed anybody yet?
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted April 30, 2011 06:11 PM
Edited by Elodin at 18:13, 30 Apr 2011.

Gun Control Explained


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