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Heroes Community > Other Games Exist Too > Thread: Diablo III....
Thread: Diablo III.... This thread is 28 pages long: 1 10 ... 12 13 14 15 16 ... 20 28 · «PREV / NEXT»
del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 16, 2012 03:24 PM

Quote:
And what's stopping you from making "your own" build right now? the fact that the other skills you happen to be not using aren't grayed out?


Nothing is "stopping" me beyond that making something like D2 Meele Sorc is impossible.
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 16, 2012 04:17 PM

I'm simply in love with the game.

Everything matters now; every stat is important to every class, just one of them is more important for one, that's it. The items matter greatly even more than Diablo 2, cause the abilities' damage is calculated over your items. Unused item even matter because of the artisans. Many abilities and their runic versions, and you can only choose one among each type of ability at a time. Custumization is at its full. Stats were already determined for every class in Diablo 2. Now you don't have to click, that's all. Everything counts in this game. Every new thing (except connection requirement) is great. Everything given up is a good choice. Whoever is not satisfied simply wanted Diablo 2 re-made, it seems.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 16, 2012 05:59 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:06, 16 May 2012.

Quote:
Zero customization? How can I create "my" hero when the game is auto-generating and auto-modifying his stats and skills and my only intervention is to choose between the offered universally available skills and the maybe not-so-universally available loot?


By your definition, your character is defined by what is unavailable to him and not by your playstyle and usage of skills.

I disagree with that logic.

You don't have to have "whirlwind" greyed out to not use it.

Nothing stops you from playing, say, frenzy-only too.

Why do you need an interface-based limitation? What's stopping you from limiting other skills yourself?

Quote:
In short - why shouldn't I be allowed to create a character with stats and skills of my choosing? Like I said, if you link certain ability to certain attribute and allow them to be increased manually, the potential combinations become much more and it's far more likely to create a character who is at least somewhat "unique".


"Unique" is a funny word in a game with limited possibilities and millions of players. Any "unique" build has probably been done 9001 times or so.

Besides, if someone finds screwing up a character development on purpose fun, he can do it outside a way that is implemented in the interface. He can play without keyboard or do a headstand while playing.

"fun builds" are usually incapable of beating high difficulties, unless the game is so easy by default that bored people try that for fun. Like many "fun builds" in D2, available mostly because of the stream of broken runewords added in 1.10 patch.

ergo:

Quote:
Quote:
And what's stopping you from making "your own" build right now? the fact that the other skills you happen to be not using aren't grayed out?


Nothing is "stopping" me beyond that making something like D2 Meele Sorc is impossible.


You can also say "the Diablo 2 system and runewords were so broken that unintended garbage like melee sorc was possible" instead.

Besides, you CAN do a melee wizard in D3. Just set "normal attack" instead of a spell and go whack stuff.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 16, 2012 07:57 PM

Quote:
By your definition, your character is defined by what is unavailable to him and not by your playstyle and usage of skills.
With all skills available to all players, my character is defined as a clone to any other character out there. If the balance is flawed, certain skills will be used more than others anyway.
Quote:
Why do you need an interface-based limitation? What's stopping you from limiting other skills yourself?
Then what's the point in making them all available? I can limit myself in many ways - playing without a keyboard, using only one finger with the mouse, pulling out one of the RAM boards so the performance can get worse and the monsters can kill me between the frames... If you want it hardcore, you can make it hell if you want.
Quote:
"Unique" is a funny word in a game with limited possibilities and millions of players. Any "unique" build has probably been done 9001 times or so.
Notice the "somewhat" before "unique" in the quoted part. Of course there is no way to make a completely unique build , but still you can try to achieve something that you like for yourself and is at the same time effective and not present in the vast majority of the other builds made to rape the game.
Quote:
"fun builds" are usually incapable of beating high difficulties,
Which is a balance problem, i.e. the thing that I'm talking about all the time. Really, do you have any issue with manual skill selection and attribute increase if all skills are equally viable (for example, you can beat the game on Hell with any possible combo without breaking your nerves in the process)?

To clarify something - the game is fun. Quite fun actually, especially after Act I. I like it, after some time I may even start to like it a lot. It could have been even better without all this automated, static leveling system though.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 16, 2012 09:37 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 21:38, 16 May 2012.

Quote:
With all skills available to all players, my character is defined as a clone to any other character out there.


Why? because 80% of his skills isn't greyed out?
Again, if your friend plays, say, a whirlwind barbarian, and you play a frenzy barbarian, you're playing two different characters, and your item build probably reflects that. The fact that he doesn't have frenzy greyed out and unpickable doesn't change a damn.

Quote:
If the balance is flawed, certain skills will be used more than others anyway.


Which is a given because it's impossible to equalize skills to the point of them all being useful, no matter how hard you try to balance things out.
Balance of H&S should just focus on certain skills being utterly OP or utterly useless.

Quote:
Then what's the point in making them all available? I can limit myself in many ways - playing without a keyboard, using only one finger with the mouse, pulling out one of the RAM boards so the performance can get worse and the monsters can kill me between the frames... If you want it hardcore, you can make it hell if you want.


That was exactly my point, no?

Quote:
Which is a balance problem, i.e. the thing that I'm talking about all the time. Really, do you have any issue with manual skill selection and attribute increase if all skills are equally viable (for example, you can beat the game on Hell with any possible combo without breaking your nerves in the process)?


There will always be some statistical advantage of one skill over the other, pretty much every game proved this. And if there's none, they are actually the same skill, just named differently and may as well be combined into one.



I know your point is that you don't feel the character is personalized enough, but my counter-point is that this is mostly in our minds - the real deal AKA the gameplay remains varied as you can use only one skill at the time, and there's no time for switching them constantly as you're swarmed 24/7, so most players have to decide on their main "killer" anyway. Which means you get exactly the same results as with Diablo II, only that you're actually able to switch skills instantly when you get bored of the old one.


Also, the progression where you unlock new things each level actually is a LOT more fun and rewarding than leveling up 30 times using the same zeal skill over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
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Smithey
Smithey


Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
posted May 16, 2012 11:08 PM

Im enjoying the game except for their servers telling me when can I play, however I do agree with Zenofex, it sucks how they took away "the choice" you can say it doesnt matter, you can say its more efficient but the bottom line is that its one less feat, feat some of us enjoyed having (at least I did)....
In a same manner didnt like the hoop jumping I had to go through only so I can use a sword instead of a bow

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 17, 2012 12:36 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:27, 17 May 2012.

They did not take away the choice. They removed the implementation of the choice from interface. The choice is still yours whether you limit yourself to a group of skills or not.

edit: 60$ in Poland
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 17, 2012 01:32 PM

Quote:
You can also say "the Diablo 2 system and runewords were so broken that unintended garbage like melee sorc was possible" instead.

Besides, you CAN do a melee wizard in D3. Just set "normal attack" instead of a spell and go whack stuff.


"Garbage"? Guess who is incapable of having a rational discussion. Well, I am just hating cuz I liked the D2 gfx and D1 atmosphere. Well, time to go back and wait for a beta key for Path Of Exile.
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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted May 17, 2012 01:41 PM

So is it any good? Worth getting?
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waste the hours in an off-hand
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 17, 2012 01:53 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 13:56, 17 May 2012.

Quote:
You can also say "the Diablo 2 system and runewords were so broken that unintended garbage like melee sorc was possible" instead.


What's irrational in "garbage" ? Classes are designed to be used like, well, intended. If Blizz makes a sorceress and gives her spells only, they intend her to cast spells and not whack stuff with a sword, that's what barb/pal are for. But if you combine overpowered runewords (of 1.10) and easy difficulty, stuff like meleesorc becomes available. To me it's garbage not per se, but because of the game's skewed mechanics and low difficulty that allow such foolishness in the first place. One may argue if the melee sorc was intended or not, but to me it's quite obvious that it wasn't. Delete passion, dream and other 1.10-induced broken runewords and see how far your meleesorc will get. It will be exactly like Diablo3 wizard using his auto attack, ergo, your point is sort of incorrect.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 17, 2012 02:47 PM

Yes you could, but without those ridiculous runewords like Dragon, Dream, Passion, and many others, the viability of meleesorc would be pretty much zero. Don't you agree?
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted May 17, 2012 02:47 PM

No RP = not getting it
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 17, 2012 03:15 PM

>Argues about runewords
>Said runewords are Difficult Hell+

I feel somebody is a bit too "hardcore" to argue.... Meele sorc is quite viable until you get to the point where you need 10+ in each skill to survive, and no normal items can be equipped because you need special skill bonuses. Nevermind that meele is viable from get go with short sword/spiked club+ shield.
Nevermind that the game is actually balanced only for the first difficult and a bit into hell, where after that point its just a machoist challange for the "hardcore gamers".
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 17, 2012 05:31 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 17:32, 17 May 2012.

The game isn't balanced at all - there are countless flaws, never addressed by Blizzard because of lack of care. But that's not the point... the point was that it was the design that allowed people to beat the game with naked amazons using their fists (true story), and - similarly - to use meleesorcs with reasonable success rate.
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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted May 17, 2012 11:08 PM

Thanks for answering my question. lol
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted May 18, 2012 12:17 AM

I already know I won't be playing Diablo III. DRM, boring repetitive combat (click at stuff until it dies, if low on health run back a few steps while a potion is taking effect).

I may play Torchlight 2. It has a ferret pet. With goggles.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 18, 2012 12:30 AM

Seeing how bad Torchlight 1 is, I wouldn't expect too much from its successor

the whole genre is based on clicking until things die, by the way
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 18, 2012 02:24 AM
Edited by Nocturnal at 02:28, 18 May 2012.

I can't really believe how someone doesn't like this game. Obsessed with the old, some people really miss so much, just trying to find excuses to not like it because it is not Diablo 2. It is one brilliant game.

Quote:
So is it any good? Worth getting?


Not even a question. Buy it this second. Best game I've played since 2011.
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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted May 18, 2012 07:44 AM
Edited by B0rsuk at 07:51, 18 May 2012.

Quote:

the whole genre is based on clicking until things die, by the way


Nox isn't.

Nocturnal:
Keep telling yourself that. No point telling you the reasons because you already know The Truth. You don't even ask.

Best game of 2012 is still in alpha stage, and it's the Day Z (zombie apocalypse) mod for ARMA 2. It's a game Blizzard would never design. It's harsh and difficult to play. Permadeath. No hand holding. And it's unique. When was the last time Blizzard released an unique game ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz70TaHHlaU
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 18, 2012 08:09 AM

wow I really don't care about some random game that's in alpha
I can have fun in a game even if it isn't super unique

anyway, I am REALLY REALLY enjoying Diablo 3.
I have not played any other Diablo games. Just like all Blizzard games, it's just an extremly fluid and nice game. It feels good to play. As usual for Blizzard, the character responsiveness is amazing.

The story is very nice, the voice acting is amazing (I love my female Monk, the Templar and the Scoundrel) and difficulty is perfectly tuned. You get new spells or runes every level and there are lots of interesting enemies and items.

I'd give D3 4.5 / 5. But that's first day impressions that will probably change.
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sovereign.
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