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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Does shatter destruction work on spellcasting creatures ?
Thread: Does shatter destruction work on spellcasting creatures ? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Humblepie73
Humblepie73

Tavern Dweller
posted May 18, 2011 04:25 PM

Does shatter destruction work on spellcasting creatures ?

Hi,

i was wondering if shatter destruction only works against enemy heroes or if it's also useful to creep spellcasting neutral creatures like mages, druids and so on.

Anyone know?
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mlai
mlai


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2011 05:07 PM

SD works on magic-user neutrals/creeps.  I know b/c I saw the damage from Druids' lightning bolts pre and post SD.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 18, 2011 05:09 PM

Not entirely sure but from an effectiveness point of view orcs do not need any shatter other than shatter dark. In fact getting shatter destructive I consider a mistake since you will leave out an important might skill, be that defense or luck.
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Humblepie73
Humblepie73

Tavern Dweller
posted May 18, 2011 10:56 PM
Edited by Humblepie73 at 22:58, 18 May 2011.

Thanks for the replies, i was just wondering because i had a problem creeping a ton of mages who guarded a gold mine in week 4 (i think it was around 70 or so).

The first time i tried it i had 3 upgraded cyclops (the dudes that shoot beams from their eye, can't remember their name), war machines with tent, ballista and flaming arrows (no triple ballista yet) on Haggash.
I put 4 stacks of one goblin on the field so the cyclops could heal themselves for when the first aid tent was overchallenged, but i couldn't make it without losing a cyclops.

I could creep them lossless one week later when i had 5 cyclops and triple ballista, but i wondered if it would have helped if i had gone for shatter destruction instead of enlightenment, which i had skilled already in addition to war machines and logs.

I think i'll give it a try in my next game, i play singleplayer and found creeping with haggash+war machines quite comfortable, except for those larger stacks of casters. The map i'm playing has a memory mentor, i think i could just ditch shatter destruction later when my army is big and try to level haggash with war machines, shatter destruction and logs next time, just for convenience
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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 19, 2011 03:40 PM

Quote:
Not entirely sure but from an effectiveness point of view orcs do not need any shatter other than shatter dark. In fact getting shatter destructive I consider a mistake since you will leave out an important might skill, be that defense or luck.


Except for when they are against Dungeon, you mean? Because I can't think how fast they will die against empowered spells without shatter destruction.
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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted May 19, 2011 04:35 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Not entirely sure but from an effectiveness point of view orcs do not need any shatter other than shatter dark. In fact getting shatter destructive I consider a mistake since you will leave out an important might skill, be that defense or luck.


Except for when they are against Dungeon, you mean? Because I can't think how fast they will die against empowered spells without shatter destruction.


not really even against dungeon. rage protects against spells very well even on it's own, and it's better to get might build so dungeon units die faster. there's also the chance dungeon won't go destruction at all against stronghold, making you waste skillpoints completely.

also ive been able to win against stronghold with spells, even when they had shatter destruction. so it really doesn't affect all that much.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 19, 2011 04:42 PM

Quote:
Except for when they are against Dungeon, you mean? Because I can't think how fast they will die against empowered spells without shatter destruction.

Especially bad against dungeon.
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atheist
atheist


Hired Hero
posted May 19, 2011 05:43 PM

The description of the skill implies that Shatter Distruction works on any destructive magic spell cast on your units by the enemy. A creep casting on you is an enemy so it should work.

In any case I think that Destructive magic is waste of a skill so shatter destruction is somewhere along the same lines.

Dungeon should penetrate resistance to spells due to Irresistible Magic so indeed it seems like a bad idea to try to defend from their spells with this. Better take something more offensive like attack , luck, leadership maybe.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 20, 2011 12:04 AM

You'd be hard pressed to find a pure destructive warlock that can survive more than 2 rounds against a barbarian and much less that could actually win. To win you have to not only hit hard but combine attacks in a way that strip an orc unit from its rage shield. And dungeon CAN hit hard, chains are damaging enough on their own, add luck and/or cold steel(since you'll often want tactics to negate orc tactics anyway) and a pre-emptive strike with furies, raiders and maybe dragons(if they can pull off a good firebreath) can greatly weaken the orcs before they gain rage. Either way focusing your units and spells on one target at a time is the only effective way to kill orcs, spells and sorcery alone won't cut it. Warcries, battle elation and attacking can build rage faster than you can wear it down, especially given morale, haste or long reach due to tactics/aura of swiftness.
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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted May 20, 2011 12:10 AM

Are you saying I have acquired shatter destro for nothing when playing your duel map?
Oh well I have won those times anyway...
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 20, 2011 12:22 AM

If opponent does go for a pure destructive build it's not, add shatter destructive and it's pretty much a loss. But shatter destructive does not cover for instance dark nor a melee offensive dungeon and can turn into dead weight. This is even worse in a real game where logistics are a must and often enough warmachines as well.
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mlai
mlai


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2011 04:57 AM

How can Shatter Dark be better than Shatter Destructive?  How does that make sense?

It's far better to cut a fireball's damage by 50%, than to make a Mass Slow spell last 5 turns instead of 10 turns.  Oh boy, I only get to be slow for 5 turns, woot.  Take that, Dark Magician, ha ha.

I never get Shatter Dark.  What's the secret?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 22, 2011 12:15 PM

That if opponent gets dark you often lose. If you do not get shatter destructive you have better odds at winning anyway. Just practical online tips.
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Deathy
Deathy


Known Hero
Angels Galore
posted May 23, 2011 12:24 AM

besides, shatter dark does more than just "make mass slow only last 5 turns instead of 10" expert shatter dark itself already weakens expert level spells into basic level, which weakens spells like suffering,weakness and slow ALOT, making them pretty pointless against stronghold. but on the other hand, without shatter dark, berserk,hypnotize and vampirism will run rampart and kill orcs very fast.(although even with it berserk atleast will kill orcs very fast)

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mlai
mlai


Adventuring Hero
posted May 23, 2011 03:17 PM

Yeah after typing my post I thought about how SDark will keep the Dark Magician from puppetmastering your Cyclops stack.

Just one spell, but a pretty big factor LOL.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 23, 2011 03:25 PM

There is a lot more to it than cyclops immunity. Frenzy will only last one turn, blind will be pathetic, confusion will not prevent retaliations etc etc. It is absolutely necessary vs dark, cannot defeat necro or a dark dungeon otherwise. Unless you are ridiculously lucky with everything.
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CliffracerRIP
CliffracerRIP

Tavern Dweller
posted June 03, 2011 10:10 PM

Wouldn't you ideally speaking want to have the following skills.

Shatter Destruction.
Shatter Light
Shatter Dark
Leadership
Luck

Luck and leadership taken together with a high attack score such as a barbarian presumably has would win the game without annoying magics to get in the way.  
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 03, 2011 10:22 PM

lol. that looks like suicide. in most case at least 2 of those skills, if not 3 will be wasted.

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted June 04, 2011 12:45 AM

Did I get trolled in that other thread?...
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CliffracerRIP
CliffracerRIP

Tavern Dweller
posted June 04, 2011 11:04 PM
Edited by CliffracerRIP at 23:04, 04 Jun 2011.

Quote:
lol. that looks like suicide. in most case at least 2 of those skills, if not 3 will be wasted.


Yes they will be 'wasted' but we are assuming here that you aren't equipped with a psychic ability to detect what form of magic your enemies are going to be using.  

Luck and leadership taken together add to the maximum speed and damage potential and if my memory isn't off (I haven't ever actually played Tribes of the East, just finishing Hammers of Fate) the more damage you do the stronger your units get (called blood rage).  

While if you allow people to use light magic they will buff their units so they can defeat yours, dark magic they will undermine your units killing powers and with destructive magic they will simply blast your units to bits (especially if it's a small battle).  

And it's great not to take full damage from druids lightning bolts.
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