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| Thread: Strategies against inferno |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Bombur
Known Hero
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posted May 31, 2011 11:33 PM |
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Strategies against inferno
Can anyone tell me which faction is best against inferno because their familiars are the biggest problem by far in a battle. Against necro they steal most of the mana, although it can be recovered with mark of the necromancer and against dungeon and academy is the same thing. Can anyone tell me which faction is best used against them and especailly Deleb. I know sylvan has high initiative but with all the gating going around the arcane archers and some units might be caught in the middle.
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 01, 2011 12:00 AM |
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Quote:
Can anyone tell me which faction is best against inferno because their familiars are the biggest problem by far in a battle. Against necro they steal most of the mana, although it can be recovered with mark of the necromancer and against dungeon and academy is the same thing. Can anyone tell me which faction is best used against them and especailly Deleb. I know sylvan has high initiative but with all the gating going around the arcane archers and some units might be caught in the middle.
You indeed need a faction that has access to a means to replace lost mana on the battlefield. Demons with their eat corpses ability would do well, but this isn't how to kill inferno with inferno.
Necropolis has a free ability called mark of necromancer which allows loads of mana to be gained rather easily by hurting enemy units (even better than killing them and eating their corpses). So necropolis is probably the best faction for demon-killing. The longer it takes to kill the demons, the more mana you get.
The alternative I guess would be to have so magic that the imps don't matter, this means perhaps having a mage with enlightenment and intelligence.
Sylvan probably isn't that a good idea because they depend on vulnrable ranged units (hunters, druids) that are going to be vulnrable to the gating ability and all the demons units are pretty much a match for any sylvan unit in melee.
Or you can use the the Orcs for their original intended purpose, they don't even need magic afterall  .
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 01, 2011 01:04 AM |
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The multiplayer reality says that sylvan, fortress, academy and dungeon kinda rape inferno, only orcs seem to have trouble. Necro normally has the upper hand though it can be close if we are talking big armoes and inferno also has vampirism or light - even so a lot is decided by hero atb and resistance. Worth noting that I am referring to full maps, not duels. Mid to lategame.
Inferno takes great skill to prove a challenge to the opponent and is often forced to pick warmachines or risk a slower creeping with higher casualties. Also they can be pretty vulnerable early on though not all maps allow you to rush them.
As for dungeon, academy and necro running out of mana. Highly unlikely if you pick enlightenment -> intelligence and keep an eye on trade guild/artifact merchants. Academy just doesn't run out of mana. Dungeon and necro just might but they can make short work of you via spellcasting before that happens. Dungeon specifically can only be threatened if the game gets too long or inferno gets the right protections, however the odds are in their favour because they can have an artifact/level advantage being a faster development faction. They can engage opponent as soon as week 4 even in large maps and can pass through hordes of tier 7 where inferno might be hesitant. Necro is similarly fast and can wreak havoc with a single well-timed puppet. It's not as simple as that obviously but they can control the map better and inferno needs some luck against their dark. Academy can be similarly fast, defensive and get access to dark..
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 01, 2011 12:56 PM |
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Quote:
The multiplayer reality says that sylvan, fortress, academy and dungeon kinda rape inferno, only orcs seem to have trouble. Necro normally has the upper hand though it can be close if we are talking big armoes and inferno also has vampirism or light - even so a lot is decided by hero atb and resistance. Worth noting that I am referring to full maps, not duels. Mid to lategame.
Inferno takes great skill to prove a challenge to the opponent and is often forced to pick warmachines or risk a slower creeping with higher casualties. Also they can be pretty vulnerable early on though not all maps allow you to rush them.
As for dungeon, academy and necro running out of mana. Highly unlikely if you pick enlightenment -> intelligence and keep an eye on trade guild/artifact merchants. Academy just doesn't run out of mana. Dungeon and necro just might but they can make short work of you via spellcasting before that happens. Dungeon specifically can only be threatened if the game gets too long or inferno gets the right protections, however the odds are in their favour because they can have an artifact/level advantage being a faster development faction. They can engage opponent as soon as week 4 even in large maps and can pass through hordes of tier 7 where inferno might be hesitant. Necro is similarly fast and can wreak havoc with a single well-timed puppet. It's not as simple as that obviously but they can control the map better and inferno needs some luck against their dark. Academy can be similarly fast, defensive and get access to dark..
As I understood it Inferno wins in sieges by creating a screen of gated creatures that clogs up the enemy melee advance while using hero magic,shooting and pit-fiend magic to eliminate the enemy shooters. Then you blast them with magic and shooting until the melee advance is no more as well.
In sieges the devour corpse ability comes very handy to get you mana as sieges tend to last longer you can often run out mana within a reasonable time period. It can be used to raise mana to buff your forces and in one case (a battle I expected to lose) to teleport pit fiends to attack the enemy titans.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 01, 2011 01:59 PM |
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A siege takes away from you your only advantage - fast-paced open melee - which is your only hope against certain factions. I'd much rather face dungeon or necro in an open field than in my town.
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 02, 2011 05:48 PM |
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A siege takes away from you your only advantage - fast-paced open melee - which is your only hope against certain factions. I'd much rather face dungeon or necro in an open field than in my town.
It is always to the advantage of the player to fight a siege, even inferno. The towers inflict constant damage and they don't run out of ammunition unlike the shooters (once you've destroyed their ammo cart which is easy).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2011 06:19 PM |
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Umm no it's not.
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veco
Legendary Hero
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posted June 02, 2011 06:54 PM |
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Edited by veco at 18:55, 02 Jun 2011.
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As I understood it Inferno loses in sieges by creating a screen of gated creatures that clogs up the friendly melee advance while using hero magic with 2 Spellpower, pathetic shooting and even more pathetic pit-fiend magic to get eliminated by enemy shooters. Then you get blasted by them with magic and shooting until the melee advance is no more as well.
fixed
Face it, Inferno is a might melee faction - it needs wide open space to shine.
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 03, 2011 03:37 PM |
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Face it, Inferno is a might melee faction - it needs wide open space to shine.
Inferno is just not fast enough to benefit from a wide open spaces. It benefits from fighting enemies in cramped spaces where they can isolate one unit at a time under a horde of gated and real units, no retaliations is great.
Their relative weakness in missile fire means that they benefit *less* than any other faction from being behind castle walls. However gating still comes in handy here because the gated units can block entrances and weakened gated (or in some cases real) units can throw their lives away to negate retaliations for the deadlier units can polish them off without losses.
Basically the trick with demons at all times is to exploit the fact that only some of your units are actually real. But your best melee units overall(the pit lords and horned demons) are pretty slow.
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veco
Legendary Hero
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posted June 03, 2011 04:13 PM |
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Inferno not fast enough....?
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It benefits from fighting enemies in cramped spaces where they are forced to attack the tankiest unit in the enemy army while being ripped to shreds by enemy shooters
Cramped spaces make it harder to focus down high priority targets and force you to deal with damage soakers first. It's their job to take punishment so that damage dealers are safe and high in number to kill you.
You can't gate in there, your gates can be misplaced by the enemy units standing on them further clogging you own melee from advancing. Sitting on you side of the field waiting for gates to kill or weaken the enemy is a failed tactic since most of the gates will drop dead before they act. You have to add pressure on the enemy with your real troops so that your gates can come in full strenght and aid them.
It works only if you're talking about countering AI (which sucks) and not real players.
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ebbafan
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 03, 2011 04:53 PM |
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inferno defending in a siege is better against certain factions others are situational, despite their weak ranged units (turtling inferno)
for example against dungeon with poor knowledge: imps + alastor w/ mass confusion then counterspell: once dungeon runs out of mana you just puppet and send units in to die by gates/real mob, however this will not work if dungeon has high knowledge and you do not have alastor
haven even better: they run out of mana via imp drain then it's time to bring them one by one to die or deal with their flyers and note that i have taken into account some of their units dark counter(will run out)
stronghold is meat!
you also have more protected space to do your gating mob thing in a siege.
however, this strategy sucks against necro, fortress, academy, not good against sylvan, iffy against dungeon and it is true that generally a spellcaster prefers a siege type scenario (either side of the siege) whereas the warrior prefers an open field
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 03, 2011 10:02 PM |
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Cramped spaces make it harder to focus down high priority targets and force you to deal with damage soakers first. It's their job to take punishment so that damage dealers are safe and high in number to kill you.
Everything has to die anyway no way to avoid it. What matters is your ability to isolate and surround units one at a time. Surrounded in this way they cannot do retaliation attacks against your best units, allowing you to destroy them without taking full damage. They may have damage soakers, but so do you. But the damage balance is in your favour and that's what matter.
You have to kill their ammo carts early in the siege do because if they can fire enough ammunition at you you're in trouble. That's what pit fiends and succubi are for though. And if your playing against a typically stupid AI then they will have placed all their ranged units next to the ammo cart in fireball range.  Again gated units serve very well as additional arrow-fodder.
The problem is if you face down an enemy with vast reserves of magic and you don't. Or you face titans with their call lightning infinite times. But Titans can be slain with magic or hero melee attacks and I'd rather face a few call lightnings than the full blast of ammo-based lightning attacks at close range with no walls in the way. Enlightenment is the answer in the former case, failing that you may be able to gobble down some slain units to get mana to cast buffs on your units at the right time.
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veco
Legendary Hero
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posted June 04, 2011 12:40 AM |
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Edited by veco at 00:41, 04 Jun 2011.
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Dead wrong. The more time you let damage dealers alive the more damage they will dish out to you.
Picture being blocked by treants while arcane archers shoot you down one by one. Do you attack treants because they used up their retaliation or do you rush towards archers whenever you see a way to reach them?
Of course you go for archers because they are fragile and pose a bigger threat than treant with almost 0 damage.
and good luck using destructive magic as a Demonlord, I bet it hits hard
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 04, 2011 02:30 AM |
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well, the unlimited retaliations of ancient treants is no joke when they are the last stack remaining. their damage isn't bad, just average.
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Bombur
Known Hero
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posted June 04, 2011 02:46 PM |
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Actually i now played as inferno against a Fortress player and found out that it can be a pretty close fight. He had all units except magma dragons but they were all upgraded, and I had just a few upgrades: succubus seducer, Familiars, and horned leapers. He had Inga and I had Deleb. I managed to destroy a lot of his units with ballista and frenzied his units 4 or 5 times but with rune of dragonform and of eatherealness he managed to defeat me. Plus he had an icebolt that could kill 4 of my pit fiends in one blow. So fortress has good chances against inferno, but depends on the player and in my case, on a scale of 1 to 10 I am 6
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unifex
Hired Hero
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posted June 04, 2011 04:00 PM |
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..... Picture being blocked by treants while arcane archers shoot you down one by one. Do you attack treants because they used up their retaliation or do you rush towards archers whenever you see a way to reach them?
Of course you go for archers because they are fragile and pose a bigger threat than treant with almost 0 damage.....
Hey dont forget Treant have turboboost
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/sylvan_creatures.shtml
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 04, 2011 10:50 PM |
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Quote:
Dead wrong. The more time you let damage dealers alive the more damage they will dish out to you.
Picture being blocked by treants while arcane archers shoot you down one by one. Do you attack treants because they used up their retaliation or do you rush towards archers whenever you see a way to reach them?
Of course you go for archers because they are fragile and pose a bigger threat than treant with almost 0 damage.
and good luck using destructive magic as a Demonlord, I bet it hits hard
Demons hit hard and they have high initiative. Most units can only retaliate once, but if a number of demon units strike together, all of them gets to inflict full damage on that single unit. Remember that with gating you have more units overall than anyone else and some of these you can throw away with no strategic consequences.
In the scenario you mentioned (I take it that arcane archers ignore walls) there is a simple solution. Gate a suitable creature (say pit fiends) to attack the archers. The cool thing is that you can weather a few rounds of archery fire because only some of your units are real.
Or you can simply invest in destructive magic expert and cast implosion on said archers on the first move of your hero. Or you can invest in dark magic and cast blind or confusion.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 04, 2011 11:24 PM |
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No amount of theorycrafting can change veco's TRUTH! It's simple really, in inferno's case a castle fight will either prevent you from charging an opponent or others from charging you. Which might be cool against fortress with rune of charge, sylvan, barbarian(because of dark in their case ) and maybe haven if they have too many paladins but the rest.. Bad idea. Of course if we are talking combat AI, anything goes. The AI has always been a victim in heroes.
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CliffracerRIP
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 05, 2011 05:38 PM |
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No amount of theorycrafting can change veco's TRUTH! It's simple really, in inferno's case a castle fight will either prevent you from charging an opponent or others from charging you. Which might be cool against fortress with rune of charge, sylvan, barbarian(because of dark in their case ) and maybe haven if they have too many paladins but the rest.. Bad idea. Of course if we are talking combat AI, anything goes. The AI has always been a victim in heroes.
You generally win by being able to surround enemy units with lots of your units and destroy them one at a time. The reason why this is a good idea is that due to the way the game works, a unit can only retaliate against one attack per turn.
So if you attack a single unit with more units, the less damage in total you will take. While if you send your units here and there 'charging' then you will find that your units are pretty quickly surrounded and you won't be getting any retaliations against them, meaning you'll be taking most of the damage.
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Bombur
Known Hero
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posted June 05, 2011 05:41 PM |
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That is true, but it depends on initiative, if you face sylvan with Wyngaal, plus maybe some artifacts which raise initiative or decrease yours u might find yourself losing half your army before u even move or manage to gate something.
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