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| Thread: Magic Skill choices conundrums | |
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted June 16, 2011 05:45 PM |
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Magic Skill choices conundrums
This is a question I have had for a long time, so I thought I would toss this out to see what everyone thinks about the four schools of magic in Heroes 3.
I know that earth magic at expert is oftentimes simply one of the best skills in game a hero can learn. That is easy.
My dilemma is this.
When faced with perhaps less than optimal choices for skills (aka, not able to get all four schools of magic on a given hero), how do you determine which of the three magic schools are best related to each other?
As in, how do you know if fire magic, with mass curse, bloodlust, etc, is better than mass bless and dispel, etc, with water magic? And how do they each compare to air magic, which I normally consider an automatic choice right behind earth magic, due to chain lightning, as well as other nice spells?
I am not looking for a list of your favorite order, I want to know WHY you feel that a given school is better than another. And I am looking for what has the lowest attrition rate on the armies carried by the said hero. I want to keep as much and as many of my stacks as I can.
I look forward to the responses!
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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heroes_player
Known Hero
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posted June 16, 2011 06:32 PM |
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OFFTOPIC?
Well I am now playing a map called "The Old Knight" and my minds have changed while playing it. Here is my list:
1. Earth
2. Water
3. Fire
4. Air
The earth is the most important magic school because it has many important spells like slow, quicksand (the most underestimate spell I think, I will post a pic if you need the reason  ), resurrection, town portal, forcefield, shield and maybe implo is also excellent. You know.. without those spells your games will ne much harder
Water as the second choice because it has good some "non-direct-dmg-spells" like forgetfullness, clone (just try with your biggest stack ). Also prayer, cure and bless are very nice to have. But beware one very mighty spell - DISPEL. Just think a situation where you have casted forcefield and quicksands etc... Dispel will eliminate them directly! 
About fire magic.. I have always thought that this has one excellent spell - berserk. But there are also other good spells, especially when they are on expert fire: blind (enemy's troops won't retalitate after first hit), sacrifice (much effective than ressu, but use that only if you really need that) 
Air magic as bottom.. The reason is that in most games DD and fly are banned so you do not need to worry about these spells Air magic has haste, but in my opinion I would cast prayer than that. Air magic has in my opinion the best "direct-dmg-spells" like lighting, chainlightning etc. for early game but we do not really need them in tough single player maps Air magic has also air shield and counterstrike but I have not needed to use them though... If air magic is offered to main hero, I will not take it (expect if the other skill is like eagle eye etc..). Nut for secondary heroes? Of course!! Air magic has one very usefull spell - air orb. It has saved my games many times.. But because I do not need air magic in battle situations, I will give that skill for secondary heroes.
Just my thoughts..
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[CENTER] [/CENTER]
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted June 16, 2011 07:30 PM |
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Hrm, interesting choices and reasons. Can you post the pic for quicksand? I don't see it helping much except in situations where your troops are either slower, or where you have time to summon a lot of them.
What were you saying about sacrifice being more effective than resurrection?
And aside from DD and fly, mass haste means more hits to enemy troops and fewer enemy troops that can hit yours. Are there no other really useful air spells, or is that still dwarfed by the spells in fire and water schools?
What spell is air orb?
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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heroes_player
Known Hero
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posted June 17, 2011 08:45 AM |
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Well I noticed that I have not a save anymore so I can't post a pic anymore  nut let me tell you how the fight is winable only with quicksand
First at all, the enemy has only hundreds of behemoths and he stays in a castle. He has exper tactics so in the first round behemoths are able to go out... So I have to use a hero wich has also expert tactics so behemoths will stay inside the walls.. He has also recanter's cloak (only level 1 and 2 spells) so forcefield is not allowed and destroying own catapult is not possible.
Hero must have sphere of permanence (no dispels), that is maybe the importantest artifact in this fight and maybe ammo cart is also needed.. But the hero has not ballistik so catapults will break the walls and behemoths will go out..
You attack him. First round block the gate and cast quicksand. In the second round the stupid catapult will break the wall but now you must have a fodder like phoenixes. Cast quicksand and attract behemoths, behemoths will go next to phoenixes but they stays on that place because of quicksand... just do this little more turn until the battlezone has full of quicsands you will win this battle easily.
About resurrection and sacrefice.. Lets says that you have 20 spell power and both earth and fire magic at expert level and your troops are 100 imps and archdevils.
Using resurrection on archdevils will resurrect about 6 archdevils. Sacrificing your imps will resurrect 17 archdevils
There is mass prayer so mass haste is not needed (even though mass haste gives more speed.. but prayer gives more attack and defense )
I meant view air (did not remember correctly..)
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted June 17, 2011 05:17 PM |
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Bummer that you don't have the save anymore, but I think i understand how you did it. Interesting tactic. But I thought the quicksand was placed randomly?
Nice to know that roughly 100 lvl ones will res about 15-18 lvl 7s. Good info to have
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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PinkFlamingo
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2011 06:57 PM |
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1. Earth
2. Water
3. Air
4. Fire
To be honest, I almost never try to learn Air or Fire magic. Water Magic is ridiculously powerful.
The best level 1 Water spells are of course: Cure and Bless.
The best level 2 Water spells are: None. lol. They all suck.
The best level 3 Water spells: Forgetfullness, Teleport
The best level 4 Water spells: Clone, Prayer
Summon Water Elemental is just terrible.
Air Magic and Fire Magic simply cannot compete with Earth and Water except in special cases where you have Expert Fire magic with Berserk (not all that likely in normal games)
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted June 17, 2011 07:17 PM |
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Earth is very powerful:
- Slow is arguably the most useful spell in the game, crippling the enemy army and ensure the longevity of you own troops.
- Ressurrection, which allows you to fight big battles with minimal losses, is not only more powerful with Earth Mastery, its effects will also be permanent.
- Shield which is handy in the beginning to protect your tank stack, and still powerful later on. (especially with Expert Mastery).
- Force Field which is usefull to block enemy walker and once again helps preserving your troops.
- Meteor Shower/Implosion, which are two powerful direct damage spells.
- Town Portal.
I think Earth is ideal for Magic Heroes, as it allows their troops to last longer, allowing the heroes to cast more spells. (with Might Heroes, Air and Water are slightly more usefull because their spells buff your units, which is where the strength of a Might Hero's army lies. )
The others are weaker in comparison imo. Haste, Prayer, Bless, Curse, Teleport, Bloodlust, Lightning Bolt, Forgetfulness, Blind, Berserk and Frost Ring all have their merits, but their magic schools often suffer from weak spells or spells that you'd rarely use under most circumstances. (Land Mine, Weakness, Fireball, Magic Mirror, Summon Elemental, Frenzy, Sacrifice, etc). This may -of course- differ for Multiplayer games.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 17, 2011 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
Can you post the pic for quicksand? I don't see it helping much except in situations where your troops are either slower, or where you have time to summon a lot of them.
Quicksand is a gods spell. With ammo card, one lizard + one single fodder, backed by mass slow and quick sand, you can kill 1 million behemots in theory, without worrying about morale issues too much.
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Era II mods and utilities
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PinkFlamingo
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2011 09:18 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Can you post the pic for quicksand? I don't see it helping much except in situations where your troops are either slower, or where you have time to summon a lot of them.
Quicksand is a gods spell. With ammo card, one lizard + one single fodder, backed by mass slow and quick sand, you can kill 1 million behemots in theory, without worrying about morale issues too much.
I don't see how that's possible. Care to explain it a bit more?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 17, 2011 09:45 PM |
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8 quicksands are placed at every expert cast. The battle field has 166 hexes, minus the obstacles. In general, <> the 12th cast, no neutral except the flying units will be able to walk more than one hex at once if you know how to lure them. Even with morale, two hexes are not a danger, while high morale with mass slow can cost you the battle.
I use it rarely because it sounds to me equally cheap to berserk. But sometimes it is necessary, there are some rambo maps around.Specially vs crystal dragons which are resistant to slow, quick sand is useful.
I think there is no exact rule for choosing your magic skills except the ones required by the map or faction you are playing. Earth is precious in any situation, while air, water and fire can be complementary depending the spells you get or your preferred strategy. If you plan to have a bunch of archangels, cloning them is a great thing. If no tactics and slow faction, air is a must. If you get berserk, fire will be your ally. Personally I prefer the maps baning slow, the fights are much more interesting.
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Era II mods and utilities
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heroes_player
Known Hero
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posted June 18, 2011 10:27 AM |
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I have noticed a very good thing. Even if you have low spell power, quicksand will stay on the battlefield forever until expert dispel so you do not have to worry casting this spell again and again...
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