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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Public Closed Beta Impressions
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Public Closed Beta Impressions This thread is 33 pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 33 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 05, 2011 12:28 AM

Quote:
What is the deal with having to create heroes just so you can play as them in Multiplayer? This is just flat out STUPID.


I forgot to reply, it isn't.You didn't think they'd make it that way did you..?

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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted July 05, 2011 12:52 AM

Quote:
Just finished with Slava's prologue mission. So the story promises to be the same old good vs. evil crap with little twists and relatively straight-forward characters


You got that from a prologue mission?
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Invictus7
Invictus7


Adventuring Hero
Lurking About...
posted July 05, 2011 03:35 AM

Could someone please explain the conflux experience thing? I've reached the top about 4 times and it says something about dynasty levels but it still says "Iron Rank" on it.
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Question Convention

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted July 05, 2011 04:39 AM

Quote:
Quote:
What is the deal with having to create heroes just so you can play as them in Multiplayer? This is just flat out STUPID.


I forgot to reply, it isn't.You didn't think they'd make it that way did you..?


You never know with Ubi. They've made some real questionable moves in the past.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted July 05, 2011 08:28 AM

I just realized there are no war machines anymore . Apart from fancy catapults, that is -_-
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 05, 2011 11:58 AM

Quote:
You got that from a prologue mission?
Let's say that I'm testing my skills as a prophet. Wanna bet money on it?

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
posted July 05, 2011 12:43 PM

@Zenofex:

No, your "prophecy" is too generic. Details, or it doesn't count!
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 05, 2011 02:11 PM

Detailed prophecy? Next you're gonna ask me to tell you that the world is gonna end in October, 21.

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
posted July 05, 2011 02:34 PM
Edited by The_Polyglot at 14:35, 05 Jul 2011.

@Zenofex:

Detailed, as in not just a rehash of a fantasy game cliché If You want to take this further, I suggest a thread in the VW, as we're currently spamming, I think.
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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted July 05, 2011 08:54 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What is the deal with having to create heroes just so you can play as them in Multiplayer? This is just flat out STUPID.


I forgot to reply, it isn't.You didn't think they'd make it that way did you..?


You never know with Ubi. They've made some real questionable moves in the past.



That's the impression I got about that, actually. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it in singleplayer, and I guess it's nice to have a somewhat consistant ingame avatar for multiplayer. I just hope the final version won't be a big advantage for players who grind up their character and dynasty.
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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted July 06, 2011 02:24 AM

I wanted to pre-order the game last weak because I was so excited about the beta. A friend of mine got the beta and invited me to his place to give it a try... And I didn't like it at all. We played for the last 6 days for hours.

I am sorry to say this but I am giving away HMM as my favorite game. The 6th part of this sequel feels like a dull version of its predecessors, even H4 despite the many problems it had, had more magic, fantasy and an overwhelming feeling that draws you inside the game. H6 in my opinion is too mechanical, plain and I simply don't like it. All the creatures are a blurred color piles on the battlefield (and I was playing the game on a huge screen with an insane computer), the town window compared to the glorious town screens we had is like the statistics compared to the real life, the skills are a mess and in the way spells work right now you cannot use more than one spell for a very long time (until you level up and you decide to take a new one) and you use one spell once in three-four battles because of the mana demands and the hero spell power is close to nothing. It is just boring, the heroes are simply non-present on the battlefield - it is just the very opposite direction of H4 but the mistake is in the same proportions.

About the tier levels - cores got everything - the rough power in HP, Damage and numbers AND the usefulness of the skills. In general the core part of an army is consisted by numerous soldiers with weak to medium power, than a part of it are specialists with really useful skills and more power and than you have the champions - less in numbers but with great strenght and enormous skills. IN H6 the cores have everything - the damage, the numbers, the skills - and there is nothing left for elites (rarely you will see a useful skill and they just don't survive against core creatures) and champions (strange and sometimes even funny skills with no real impact on the battle, except for the cyclops maybe).

The adventure map is empty and in several occasions I felt myself like a tourist looking to the trees and the mountains with no real idea why I am going that way - and the real reason was that I was lured by that pile of ore at the end of the road but than nothing else to do there... Once you take three mines you can build everything in your castle - the gold is produced in the city and it is never less than you need - you can even sell it on the marketplace for these insane sell ratios we have now and it is still ok.

I think that all of the new concepts could be tested in a very good way without actually programming a new code for Heroes 6. You just take Heroes 3 because it is much simpler in ideas that H4 and H5, you use the editor we have even now and change the resource demands for everything leaving only gold, wood, ore and crystals in game, change the stats of the creatures, increase to the sky the mana demands, you alter the programming code a little bit to connect the spells to be given by leveling up by some skills, create a map with the internal editor putting only 4 types of mines, block the mage guilds and than you give only one map to one hundred people for testing and see what will happen. And yes, for better effect you remove the town screens. I think you got the idea.

This could be done in a less than a week, because I remember how easily the creature stats, spells and cost of the buildings could be altered and it is even easier if you possess the actual programming code. The way the skill system exists at the moment is worse than H3. We had a very good skill system with H4 and even better one with vanilla H5 and now we have H6 system which seems so random to me and if you take out the spells it leaves you with nothing - just an example - it doesn't seem logical to me or balanced that Architect I gives you 1 skeleton AND 1 fate weaver... Or that a skill from the same row gives you 2 tiles more on the adventure map, or that another skill from the same level gives you a very expensive spell that has the same healing power like one week population of healers, or another skill from the same supposedly equal skill level that allows you to see the numbers of the stacks... Even Diablo skill system is better than this and it is considered plain and simple in terms of real RPG. While playing the beta I was spending like 10 minutes at the beginning going through all of the skills to decide where to spend the AP and every skill seemed unnecessary to me or with very wicked concept.

Actually I cannot think of even one piece I liked - the combat log is ugly and it lacks the things which I really want to know - why are suddenly there all of these numbers over the head of some stacks - later I understood that a special undead skill was triggered, or why the skeleton cripples the speed of the targets (no description about that skill but we have 3 similar skills saying that this creature is an undead creature - and even if this is corrected the way the skills are described and put in the creatures windows is silly - sometimes the same skills like all undead skills are in different order by the different undead and this only adds to the confusion you get seeing this game).

Sorry for the long post but my final conclusion is that I don't have to play this game - there is no real point in advancing your hero because it has close to none impact on the battlefield, not only at the beginning but even in the middle of the game (I only reached 15th level so it might change "later"), there is no point of building your elite or champion units, just focus on the cores and everything should be fine, there is no point to explore the adventure map because there is nothing worth on it, except the enemy town and very few special places - the rest is running around for piles of crystals, wood, ore and gold - I felt myself like playing these dumb farm games on Facebook - no real idea for doing it, just do it because it is in the game. I didn't get the feeling that something real is actually happening while I played the beta.

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namad
namad

Tavern Dweller
posted July 06, 2011 06:44 AM

the developer for magic the gathering who writes on mondays describes it well...


he often explains that vanilla design is very important... it's important to have a few very simple creature and spell designs so that the more complex ones have something to shine against...

in homm1-4 this is what the low tier creatures provided...


there should be at least 2core creatures per faction that do almost nothing i'd say...



also... he has a point 3mines and you can build everything no reason to get more! but in homm 1-5 it took usually 5-6mines... and you never had enough gold and you often left units out of your army unless you had gold mines
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted July 06, 2011 09:42 AM

Sometimes when I read a post I just have to reply. Nothing personal. And everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I still want to comment on a few things. So forgive me for the excessive quoting =)

Quote:
I wanted to pre-order the game last weak because I was so excited about the beta. A friend of mine got the beta and invited me to his place to give it a try... And I didn't like it at all. We played for the last 6 days for hours.

I am sorry to say this but I am giving away HMM as my favorite game. The 6th part of this sequel feels like a dull version of its predecessors,

And you've decided this based on the beta? Did you play the beta for the other games? I mean, the vanilla alone, not with the expansion packs.

Quote:
even H4 despite the many problems it had, had more magic, fantasy and an overwhelming feeling that draws you inside the game. H6 in my opinion is too mechanical, plain and I simply don't like it.

As I mentioned, this is still just a beta. Many crucial things are missing, like the little sound that plays every time you pick something up. That alone makes me happy every time I play H3. These little details are not yet in place.

Quote:
All the creatures are a blurred color piles on the battlefield (and I was playing the game on a huge screen with an insane computer),

But did you have the graphics settings on full? And you could also zoom in on the battlefield if you want to. But "blurred color piles" does not sound familiar...

Quote:
the town window compared to the glorious town screens we had is like the statistics compared to the real life,

I agree.

Quote:
the skills are a mess and in the way spells work right now you cannot use more than one spell for a very long time (until you level up and you decide to take a new one) and you use one spell once in three-four battles because of the mana demands and the hero spell power is close to nothing.

The cool down period was introduced during the beta, and still needs fine tuning. That's the purpose of the beta. Magic has always been overpowered compared to might in all the other games, so balancing this out is a good thing, but takes time to get right.

Quote:
It is just boring, the heroes are simply non-present on the battlefield - it is just the very opposite direction of H4 but the mistake is in the same proportions.

The hero is just as much present on the battlefield as in H3 (it's the same mechanics), but has an even greater impact because of the new skill system. Also he's more present than in H5 because you decide when he acts, not a random factor. But heroes can't win battles without creatures in their army (like in H5), so I think this game has gone in the right direction on this point.

Quote:
About the tier levels - cores got everything - the rough power in HP, Damage and numbers AND the usefulness of the skills. In general the core part of an army is consisted by numerous soldiers with weak to medium power, than a part of it are specialists with really useful skills and more power and than you have the champions - less in numbers but with great strenght and enormous skills. IN H6 the cores have everything - the damage, the numbers, the skills - and there is nothing left for elites (rarely you will see a useful skill and they just don't survive against core creatures) and champions (strange and sometimes even funny skills with no real impact on the battle, except for the cyclops maybe).

Not all the special abilities are working yet. Also, in the latest patch the impact of the cores has been improved by the changed growth rates. But again, this is what the beta is for. Balancing and fine tuning. It's clear that the cores were very dominant in the first versions of the beta, and the devs have actually tried to correct that. And more patches and updates will come with time.

Quote:
The adventure map is empty and in several occasions I felt myself like a tourist looking to the trees and the mountains with no real idea why I am going that way - and the real reason was that I was lured by that pile of ore at the end of the road but than nothing else to do there...

Map design will differ with every map. And I don't know if we've seen all the adventure map buildings yet. One of the motivations of the game should be to beat your opponents, but I never got that urge when playing the beta because I'm not playing to have fun, but to find bugs, errors, imbalances and so on. I'm actually looking forward to the campaign though.

Quote:
Once you take three mines you can build everything in your castle - the gold is produced in the city and it is never less than you need - you can even sell it on the marketplace for these insane sell ratios we have now and it is still ok.

I think building costs are very high at the moment, especially for the champion buildings. If you have all the time in the world, then perhaps three mines would suffice. But trying to build up your town as soon an possible, resources quickly become scarce.

Quote:
I think that all of the new concepts could be tested in a very good way without actually programming a new code for Heroes 6. You just take Heroes 3 because it is much simpler in ideas that H4 and H5, you use the editor we have even now and change the resource demands for everything leaving only gold, wood, ore and crystals in game, change the stats of the creatures, increase to the sky the mana demands, you alter the programming code a little bit to connect the spells to be given by leveling up by some skills, create a map with the internal editor putting only 4 types of mines, block the mage guilds and than you give only one map to one hundred people for testing and see what will happen. And yes, for better effect you remove the town screens. I think you got the idea.

This could be done in a less than a week, because I remember how easily the creature stats, spells and cost of the buildings could be altered and it is even easier if you possess the actual programming code.

What about the upgraded graphics engine? (Again, are you sure you played the game with the graphics settings on high? Because the game looks amazing). And then you have the area of control, heroes classes, advanced classes, reputation with blood and tears, all the new skills, spells and abilities, the faction abilities, creature special abilities and so on.
I'm not saying all the changes are for the good, and some things still need tweaking, like town conversion and shared creature pools. Other things need a complete makeover, like the UI and town windows. And they could have made more effort to keep the original resources in place. But at least it's easier for the mapmakers to make balanced maps, and battles aren't won by luck or random events (like spells in the mage guild or skills when leveling up).

Quote:
The way the skill system exists at the moment is worse than H3. We had a very good skill system with H4 and even better one with vanilla H5 and now we have H6 system which seems so random to me and if you take out the spells it leaves you with nothing

Out of all the words one could pick, random would be one of the last words to describe the new skill system. Luck and randomness was way too dominant in the previous games. And although I really liked the skill system in H5, knowing how to get a certain skill without the fan made skill wheel (that eventually was included with the game) was nearly impossible. Even if you found out how, and planned to get it, you were never sure that you would. It needs more work, that's for sure, but it's certainly not empty or random!

Quote:
- just an example - it doesn't seem logical to me or balanced that Architect I gives you 1 skeleton AND 1 fate weaver... Or that a skill from the same row gives you 2 tiles more on the adventure map, or that another skill from the same level gives you a very expensive spell that has the same healing power like one week population of healers, or another skill from the same supposedly equal skill level that allows you to see the numbers of the stacks...

This is the kind of feedback a beta is supposed to get. Balancing out the skills. I agree about Architect 1, and believe it should be changed to a tier 2 skill, or perhaps modified in some way. This is the feedback that is valuable in order to make the skills "make more sense". What would be even better is if you had suggestions on how to improve the respective skills.

Quote:
Even Diablo skill system is better than this and it is considered plain and simple in terms of real RPG. While playing the beta I was spending like 10 minutes at the beginning going through all of the skills to decide where to spend the AP and every skill seemed unnecessary to me or with very wicked concept.

Of course you'll spend a lot of time in the beginning to figure out the different skills. It's a completely new game after all. With the new system you actually have to think. People complain about the game dumbing down and simplifying things, but when they introduce something that requires more thinking and planning the same people complain (not saying you are on of those).
A good tutorial and campaign introduces the skills in an orderly fashion, and I'm hoping they have this in place. When we get to know the skills a bit better the different combinations are endless. I'm very much looking forward to the creative and interesting hero builds people will come up with.

Quote:
Actually I cannot think of even one piece I liked

Not even one thing? Are you sure it's not just disappointment from playing a beta, but actually expecting a complete game with expansion packs?

Quote:
- the combat log is ugly and it lacks the things which I really want to know - why are suddenly there all of these numbers over the head of some stacks - later I understood that a special undead skill was triggered, or why the skeleton cripples the speed of the targets (no description about that skill but we have 3 similar skills saying that this creature is an undead creature - and even if this is corrected the way the skills are described and put in the creatures windows is silly - sometimes the same skills like all undead skills are in different order by the different undead and this only adds to the confusion you get seeing this game).

This is again constructive feedback on what needs improvement. Ability descriptions are missing or lacking in many places. Perhaps the combat log also needs improvement. Hopefully these things are fixed before the game is released, or perhaps with patches as time goes by.

Quote:
Sorry for the long post but my final conclusion is that I don't have to play this game - there is no real point in advancing your hero because it has close to none impact on the battlefield, not only at the beginning but even in the middle of the game (I only reached 15th level so it might change "later"),

Your hero has a lot to say, despite not being able to decide the outcome of battles with only almost no creatures in their army. He has more impact than in H3, but less than in H5. I think that's the way it should be. Now it's time to fine tune it.

Quote:
there is no point of building your elite or champion units, just focus on the cores and everything should be fine,

And fixing growth rates partially solves this. It might need more tweaking, I'll have to play with the new patch a little more in order to say something about that.

Quote:
there is no point to explore the adventure map because there is nothing worth on it, except the enemy town and very few special places - the rest is running around for piles of crystals, wood, ore and gold -

The enemy town part should be a pretty good motivation. But I agree that the adventure map feels a little empty sometimes. That is about map design and adventure map objects/missions. That's more a part of the gaming experience, not necessarily the beta testing.

Quote:
I felt myself like playing these dumb farm games on Facebook - no real idea for doing it, just do it because it is in the game. I didn't get the feeling that something real is actually happening while I played the beta.

Did you try playing hotseat with your friend? That should at least bring something "real" to the game. But as I've said many times already; the purpose of a beta (contrary to what the marketing department wants you to think) is not about making you hyped up for the game, giving you a nice experience or anything like that. It's a tedious experience with crashes, bugs, imbalances and other annoying stuff. The purpose is to report these things so that they can be improved upon or fixed entirely. And when the game is released it's easier to judge the final product. Not to forget the expansion packs...

Again, sorry for chopping up your post and the lengthy quoting and response

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namad
namad

Tavern Dweller
posted July 06, 2011 10:02 AM

are the entire obelisk digging map treasure mechanics gone? they were a staple of homm series.... also... what about thieves guilds?
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Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted July 06, 2011 10:16 AM
Edited by Crayfish at 10:18, 06 Jul 2011.

I also don't recognise blurred colour piles, I think the creature designs and animations are the best in the series, while the graphics is obviously years ahead of the previous HOMM games.

People seem to have awfully high expectations of a build a few months from release. A lot of things about the game have worked out nicely in my opinion.

However, I do agree about architect 1 boosting champion growth too much. Cores still need nerfing a bit, but at present you could build almost any one or two creature dwellings all game and still carve through the environmental enemies, creeping is far too easy right across the board.

More adventure map dwellings would help a lot in making a detailed, immersive world. Combining dwellings to just 3 per faction, removing spell-giving buildings and taking away three types of mine has cut down on the possibilities. There could be much more on the map though. Where are the Dwarven treasuries and so on? (Well ok not dwarves but you know what I mean).

Personally I think that the combined core, elite and champion external dwellings are a remnant from the failed creature pools idea. They could easily make 7 separate external dwellings per faction and I think that doing so would solve a few balance problems as well as populating the adventure map more.

Maybe you could have fun buildings or 1-time pick up items that grant a 1-combat boost. For instance a 'pile' that allows you to lay 3 land mines in the next battle. I'm sure there are all sorts of possibilities for old and new adventure map features that could be made with a bit of imagination.

Might make a thread for adventure map building ideas at some point.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted July 06, 2011 10:25 AM

I think the thieves guild is gone because it was too easy to see enemy heroes and how they are doing compared to oneself....now it is more strategic to spy on enemies or even cover oneself so can't be seen by enemy heroes (fog of war)....

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 06, 2011 10:50 AM

Yes a number of things are still messed up about this game. Why do you think we have the beta? To satisfy your desire of playing the game before it is released? That's a selfish notion if I ever heard one, we can help the game improve but we instead complain about things that CAN get fixed while we sit on our hands and grumble like bitter old people ranting about the good old times. Yes BH, the insiders and plenty of fans are doing their best to test and provide feedback, you could do the same. It can make a difference sooner or later. And no you aren't doing this for ubi, there are so many people out there waiting to play and you can help provide them a better game.

Now if you simply don't like the core of the game criticize all you want, this will still help. But if you do like it don't be so selfish and do something about it.

As for the grail quest it has indeed changed but the principles are very similar. You will see soon enough.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 06, 2011 11:38 AM

I think we'll need a specialized bug thread. Anyway, 4 bugs that I can't see mentioned anywhere:
- Evasive Maneuvers currently gives enormous Might damage reduction - for example 20 Putrid Lamasus are unable to kill a single Core creature when it's active - while it states that it should provide only 10% bonus.
- Boundless Hate sometimes does not consume the Pit Lord's turn (no pattern whatsoever - sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't).
- Blade of Hatred affects creatures that are supposed to be immune to it but only by giving them No Retaliation (they don't seem to go berserk).
- Drain Life does not trigger if the attacked stack is destroyed - don't know if this is intentional or not though.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted July 06, 2011 02:33 PM

Quote:
I also don't recognise blurred colour piles, I think the creature designs and animations are the best in the series, while the graphics is obviously years ahead of the previous HOMM games.

What no you did not just say that you think six instances of semi-naked femanoids, shrimp-looking Cerberi with only two heads and sparkly Sephinroth-Arthases are good creature designs?!

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted July 06, 2011 02:48 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 14:48, 06 Jul 2011.

Why were morale and luck changed to leadership and destiny?  Was there a demand for such a change?
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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