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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: My feedback thread
Thread: My feedback thread
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 03, 2011 06:33 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:44, 03 Jul 2011.

My feedback thread

This thread concludes my testing. To be honest, I'm surprised - the balance isn't as bad as I initially thought, there's more than meets the eye. However, there's a lot to be done in five places
1) tiers
2) racials
3) spells
4) units
5) all other


Once those three are balanced, the game will be great.

Ok, now the feedback:

TIERS
Core - Most of the core units need 10-20% reduction in health, for example marksmen (30 HP is too much).
Elite - +50% damage global buff, +15% Health buff
Champion - +75% global damage buff

RACIALS
Gating - make it consistent, I sometimes get 3 creatures gated of 100 base.
Sanctuary racial - less stat bonus on level 1, more on level 2 (i.e. +5/+5 on level one and +9/+9 on level 4)
Necromancy - Less power if the army is big (900 hp returned to a stack of 100 spectres is too godly when Cores are dominating). On the other hand, buff it when the army is tiny (so it can ressurect more than 2/14 of ghouls or something...)
Rage - should give attack bonus on every level (+3 on first, +6 on second, +9 on third, +12 on fourth).

SPELLS
- Mass vampirism weakened a bit (but not too much, don't make it useless). Alternatively move it to third tier (required level 15).
- Bloodlust no longer doubles the stack's damage (also make duration more power-dependent instead of fixed 2 turns duration). The bonus should be decent but not THAT big. Half of it is probably the solution.

Those two spells are too dominant atm, they are game breakers. Factions without them are really screwed when facing factions with those.

UNITS
Haven:
Preatorian - fine
Marksmen - fine
Vestal - reduce damage  (or nerf globally magical damage by giving creatures higher MDEF so magic attacking creatures don't do so much damage)
Griffin - fix special so that it doesn't occasionally do pitiful damage, give them 7 speed, slight damage tweak
Sun crusader - make jousting special actually work (+5% damage per tile would be good).
Blazing fury - fine
Angel - at least triple the power of his ressurection, if not more - right now it doesn't do much.

Inferno
Cerberi - increase durability
Demented - fine (very underrated, I must add.)
Lilim - reduce growth by 10%
Breeder - at least +100% damage (rather than global 50%) also remove range penalty. This unit ATM is really weak, other than the mana draining special (which is actually very strong). Make it a proper shooter please, even a population of goblins does more damage.
Lacerator - +30% health
Ravager - +15% health, fix animation (deals damage when he hits the ground if there are units nearby, because it looks stupid...)
Pit Lord - improve Boundless hate (double the damage)

Stronghold
Goblin - slight damage buff
Fury - lower growth by 10%
Crusher - fine
Dreamwalker - +75% damage buff (rather than global +50%). Consider giving them some sort of healing spell rather than speed buff. (their initiative is too bad to be a buffer, it's more of a healer type).
Panther warrior - double attack, remove special (doesn't work anyway)
Cyclope - fine

Necropolis
Skeleton - fine
Ghoul - fine
Spectre - less damage or global buff to Magic defense of monsters
Vampire - +1 speed
Archlich - +25% damage buff (rather than global +50%) or MDEF increase for monsters
Lamasu - +75% damage buff (rather than +50%), special doesn't take the turn (similiar to how archlich special works).
Fate Spinner - Improve the spin damage (pitiful atm.)

Sanctuary
Pearl priestess - damage nerf/bonus to MDEF of monster
Kappa - fix special, doesn't work too well (no 3x3 effect, no jousting bonus)
Sharkmen - +25% damage, improve special
Mizu-Kami - improve pain mirror drastically (from 10% to 40% or so) or give them no retaliation that will be shared with their skill.
Yuki-onna: no range penalty, decrease damage done by circle of frost slightly (-20%)
Kensei: fine
Sacred Kirin - make mist useful (+25% damage bonus to all creatures walking into the mist or something). 1 turn cooldown on his special rather than the current massive one (2 or 3, don't remember).

OTHER
- The most important thing about balance is to reduce the power external dwellings give. Reduce their growth bonus to 1/2 of what they give now and it should be better. with global +50% to elite/champion damage, this should fix the core-oriented gameplay.
- Reduce the costs of champion dwelling and its upgrade (max 15 crystals and 10000 gold). Give people a chance to build it on smaller maps.
- Reduce the cost of Castle or give it +2 growth rather than +1.
- Offensive spells should double their base power and get +10% more damage with every spellpower point (make the spell damage growth exponential). This is because right now they suck and it's pointless to get them.
- Reduce the ridiculous cooldown on destructive spells. No more three turn nonsense (one is enough, if you really want it - keep in mind that gamebreaking bloodlust doesn't even have a cooldown.)
- Dazing effect of lightning bolt should also lower speed (maybe even halve it) and completely zero initiative (making the unit affected act last).
- Chilling effect buffed
- fire spells +150% damage bonus rather than +100% (they don't have any extra effect)
- Sanctuary heroes no longer waterwalk (sorry, this makes water-based maps with small islands a place where not picking santuary equals loss). To compensate you can take away their lightning weakness.
- Skills that give +1 Attack or +1 Defense are really underwhelming, they cost the same "one point" it takes to get gamebreakers like bloodlust. Boost it to +3 or so, and the upper tier equivalents to +5-6.
- Logistics +5 rather than +3
- Fix neutral dreamwalkers (they just keep using their special and getting massacred by player's ranged stacks - too cheesy.)
- Lower the AI priority against gated stacks a bit (so that they don't always choose gated stacks over your) - leads to abuse.
- Important: "fast" level up gives x6 exp rather than x3 to make players reach level 15 in second month, like it used to be in previous HoMM games
- Important: reputation gain speed should be affected by exp rate speed too. x6 on "fast", x10 on "fastest". Also make the bonus for pursuing the stack +10 blood points rather than +5.
- Make regeneration blood-based to give some alternative when it comes to early game spell, right now both healing and regen are tears (and those are the most used spells early on, obviously). Unless you want to see tears heroes all the time.
- "Normal" exp gain speed doubled. It's too slow even for campaigns, unless you want people to be stuck on 5th level forever and get 1-2 levelups per XL map. Campaign heroes were fun in previous games mostly because they could reach levels impossible in multiplayer, don't ruin that please.
- Make the goblins do their chewing/hissing animation play less often, my ears bleed from hearing those sounds 20 times per minute. I'd say reduce the frequency by 90% or so @_@
- Quicken up Praetorian's animation. it's so slow one might think their spear weights a million tons (or that they can barely lift it). doesn't look good because of that.
- Fix random crashes - also I can't alt-tab the game, it crashes instantly.
- Town conversion time depends on the size of the town. Converting fully developed town should take at least a week. This is to avoid abuse.
- Once champions get buffed the way I described here, it's imperative to cap out "Architect I" to one instance, otherwise hero spam with this skill will simply mean stupidly high growth of +75% damage champions.


Overall I'm quite happy with the game. Once those things get fixed, it will be the best HoMM ever, mechanics wise. Sure, it doesn't have enough content right now to compete with H2/H3, but two expansion packs featuring two cities each (along with new artifacts and alternative upgrades) should fix that.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 03, 2011 07:06 PM

Quote:
Maniac - fine (very underrated, I must add.)
I think you mean the Demented - the Maniacs have nothing to be proud of. Like I said in another thread though, the special of the Demented is the most powerful skill among Inferno's Cores and with a careful use could turn the creature into a monster.
Quote:
Pit Lord - improve Boundless hate (double the damage)
I'd add some more health and damage as well - 280 HP and 55-60 damage sounds about right to me.
Quote:
Spectre - less damage or global buff to Magic defense of monsters
Rather work out something against their damage reduction or decrease their HP.
Quote:
Sharkmen - +25% damage, improve special
Slightly better durability won't hurt as well - in comparison with the other Cores of course.
Quote:
- Make regeneration blood-based to give some alternative when it comes to early game spell, right now both healing and regen are tears (and those are the most used spells early on, obviously). Unless you want to see tears heroes all the time.
Actually it'll be better if they improve the whole blood path significantly, the healing in all of its aspects is overly-abused.
I more or less agree with the rest or I'm still testing the actual efficiency of this or that.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 03, 2011 07:09 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:10, 03 Jul 2011.

Yeah, I meant demented (and upgraded creatures in general).

Quote:
I'd add some more health and damage as well - 280 HP and 55-60 damage sounds about right to me.


All champions get +75% damage bonus globally I find champions' health/defense usually good enough.

Quote:
Rather work out something against their damage reduction or decrease their HP.


I don't see an issue with one tough core per castle. However, spectre isn't just tough, but also ridiculously powerful in damage dealing, which should be nerfed.

Quote:
Slightly better durability won't hurt as well - in comparison with the other Cores of course.


Wouldn't hurt, I agree.

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted July 03, 2011 07:13 PM

Agree with all of this, if BH implements these changes we're much closer to a well-balanced game.

With only 5 towns, there's no reason for HVI to not be the best balanced of the series so far, so I hope to see them actually working really hard towards this goal.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 03, 2011 07:20 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:39, 03 Jul 2011.

Also, it should be wise to cap out architect I once elites and champions are buffed that way so that only one instance applies.


Otherwise nothing stops you from spamming heroes with Architect I and achieving stupidly big populations of champions.

Also, what do you guys think on the frequency of "week of disease" and "week of plague"?

I'd say they are far too common.
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Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted July 03, 2011 08:05 PM

Very thorough analysis, I agree with 99% of these points.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted July 03, 2011 08:54 PM

Quote:
- Important: "fast" level up gives x6 exp rather than x3 to make players reach level 15 in second month, like it used to be in previous HoMM games.

I don't think that alone will solve the leveling problem in a satisfactory way. I think one needs to do the following:

- General XP requirements for levels are lowered to secure a more reasonable progression and to make XP from battles more significant.

- "Fast" XP mode (x3) is called "normal", and XP in chests are tied to this level - i.e. chests give 500/1000/1500 XP when playing in this mode. This will make chests less significant in terms of XP, to shift the balance more towards XP from battles being important. Learning stones are also tied to this level.

- A "slow" mode is available and is default in campaigns. "Slow" XP mode is half that of "normal" (x1.5 in current game mode), which means chests give 250/500/750 XP at this mode (learning stones give 500 XP). This will make leveling slightly faster in campaigns

- A "fast" mode is available which is double the "normal" rate (i.e. x6 in terms of current game mode). Chests in this mode give 1000/2000/3000 XP, learning stones 2000 XP.

I think in the current game, at campaign (x1) speed, combats give virtually zero exerience compared to the massive amounts needed to level - only chests and campaign task bonuses actually contribute to leveling. On x3 mode it is slightly better, but still once you hit level 8, combat XP is just extremely puny compared to the 50.000 XP or so needed for next levels. That is why I want to shift XP so that combats provide relatively more XP, and chests and fixed bonuses contribute relatively less.
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What will happen now?

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Vangelis21
Vangelis21


Supreme Hero
Manchild
posted July 04, 2011 08:01 AM

anyone has the same problem in the campaign? almost as soon it starts, before (and after) the battle with the demon hero, my hero cannot move anymore. why?
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted July 04, 2011 10:44 AM

I hope the devs read this forum (or that the VIPs deliver the feedback to them). Because in the official forum the feedback is all over the place.

I would also add that town conversion cost should be increased, not only the time it takes to convert it. Adding time would prevent abuse, but increasing the cost would add the dilemma of converting it at all. Having towns of the same type gives a huge advantage, and there is no reason not to convert if you can at the moment. Making the cost significantly high (also depending on the level of the town, since building a town from scratch is costly) would make it a dilemma.

Also, did anyone here encounter phoenixes? From what I've read they're ridiculously strong...

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 04, 2011 10:58 AM

Quote:
I hope the devs read this forum (or that the VIPs deliver the feedback to them). Because in the official forum the feedback is all over the place.


Don't worry, I have my ways
But yeah, there's a lot of feedback on the official forum, and I hate to say it but some of it is really misleading. As usual, well, I think it was way more constructive when it was a handful of players picked for closed beta. Personally I think closed beta was too short and kind of poorly executed (two balance patches only, sure they were good, but look how much things was left unchanged..)

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Vangelis21
Vangelis21


Supreme Hero
Manchild
posted July 04, 2011 10:58 AM

Quote:
I hope the devs read this forum (or that the VIPs deliver the feedback to them). Because in the official forum the feedback is all over the place.

I would also add that town conversion cost should be increased, not only the time it takes to convert it. Adding time would prevent abuse, but increasing the cost would add the dilemma of converting it at all. Having towns of the same type gives a huge advantage, and there is no reason not to convert if you can at the moment. Making the cost significantly high (also depending on the level of the town, since building a town from scratch is costly) would make it a dilemma.

Also, did anyone here encounter phoenixes? From what I've read they're ridiculously strong...


I don't understand why don't people like the conversion as it is... what advantage are you talking about? If I get to a neutral town faster than you then i deserve the advantage. The cost should stay as it is. M A Y B E a couple of days delay but that is all.

about phoenixes, they are not so strong until YOU hit them
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!

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