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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Stack splitting - the source of all evil
Thread: Stack splitting - the source of all evil This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 25, 2011 12:55 PM

Quote:
The way Praetorians work compared to the Shield Allies from H5 is a step in the right direction that aspect.

No more one single unit preventing 50% ranged damage on everything around it.


they do work that way? I thought it's good old 1 unit wonder

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted July 27, 2011 08:42 PM

I loved stack splitting in H5 mainly to protect my shooters with 3 x 1 stack creatures, that way when the enemy comes close and gets rid of 1 stack , they are so close to my shooters that the damage is fantastic!

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted July 27, 2011 09:22 PM
Edited by B0rsuk at 21:27, 27 Jul 2011.

Quote:
I loved stack splitting in H5 mainly to protect my shooters with 3 x 1 stack creatures, that way when the enemy comes close and gets rid of 1 stack , they are so close to my shooters that the damage is fantastic!


As a general rule, HOMM players tend to love features that make things easy for them. Hence, they love dimension door, town portal, Necropolis, rich maps, Logistics, shooter-based armies, first strike.

... money maps (Starcraft), unlimited ammo (Mechwarrior), cheat codes (countless games), BFG (DooM and Quake2), sniper rifles (FPS games)...


I don't think all of the above make the game better.

For the same reason people were outraged at Heroes4. Nevermind that it actually balanced direct damage magic better in late game by keeping army size lower. Or that "Defend" order was suddenly viable in some cases even with HOMM's lack of Zones Of Control. Taking loses in a battle you're going to win is unthinkable.

I would make it my signature, but some issue with avatar picture won't let me. Heroes of Might and Magic is the only strategy game I know where players complain about choice (H4 creature dwellings)

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted July 27, 2011 10:43 PM

Wasn't the complaint about the lack of upgradeable creatures?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 28, 2011 08:15 AM

Lack of upgrades, cost requirements eliminating said choice in a poor map, the fact that the choice wasn't even a choice - see ogre mage vs cyclops for instance. Nope, every single thing about it was a screw up.

However! Gothrak from Celestial Heavens has this to say on the matter, pay attention and learn!

Quote:
Reasons to chose the Ogre Mage

I have felt very bad about the way I constantly insult, mock and generally belittle the humble Ogre Magi. This is my apology. Feel free to add to this list, so that we may convince people that Ogre Magi aren't nearly as bad as everyone claims they are.

1. Once they're dead you can use them to grit the driveway.

2. They can wear orange stripes on their chainmail and still be fashionable.

3. Without them the skull-on-a-stick industry would most likely be bankrupt, causing many employees to lose their jobs.

4. They're the only Might unit with visible human toes.

5. They hide some of the obsolete Heroes III units in their names. Drop the R,E,M,A,E and you can arrange the word GOG, or drop R,E,E to spell MAGOG.

6. They are the only Might unit that wears a hat in the constant scorching Stronghold sun.

7. They are a positive role-model to children forced to co-exist at school with a bully twice their size with a gigantic single eye in his forehead.

8. Ranged attacks are for wimps anyway.

9. If you zoom up really, really, really, really close to their face in the Reference Card, it seems as if they're looking right at you.

10. Bloodlust is much easier to say than Area Attack.

11. It's easier to type too.

12. They aren't leprechauns.

13. They build a Fort instead of a Cave, thereby allowing the precious subterannean ecosystem to survive.

14. They don't seem to mind standing pointlessly on castle towers just because the AI told them to.

15. They don't cause optometrists to burst into tears during their routine eye inspections.

16. Their name reversed is Egam Ergo, which isn't exactly Latin but is enough to get you applauded during a fifth-grade play of Julius Caesar.

17. They make Naga look like a good unit choice.

18. They're safe for the environment and are completely bio-degradable.

19. They're the only troop that waddles without looking embarassedly self-concious about it.

20. Two eyes are better than one. Four eyes are even better, if you count their skull-on-a-stick.

21. They didn't replace Mighty Gorgons, like a certain unnamed troop did in the Chaos town, you filthy wretched Nightmare.

22. The red shawl they wear is completely artifical and no endangered animals were slain to provide its material. The dye is also strawberry flavoured.

23. Unlike Behemoths you can shake their hands without being impaled in twelve places.

24. No matter how bad they are, they're still not as bad a third level unit as Earth Elementals.

25. If you bury an Ogre Magi up to his neck in the sand he'll appreciate the joke and forgive you in a day or two.

26. Ogre Magi stacks on the game screen look as if they're quietly dancing to a tune nobody but they can hear.

27. No matter how long you wait, they'll still never be leprechauns.

28. When you go for a walk with an Ogre Mage instead of a Sea Monster you won't have to avoid harpoons, rabid photographers and bearded Scotsmen insisting that ye exist in yon wee lake.

29. They make creating a list like this really, really hard.


____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted July 28, 2011 11:26 AM
Edited by B0rsuk at 11:32, 28 Jul 2011.

Ogre mages are a viable choice in some cases:

- they don't make a lovely target for direct damage spells, like cyclops. More HP instead of higher def.
- They're much better when melee is unavoidable, lots of flyers etc. Like a battle against Necropolis, Devils. Or Asylum.
- Ogre Fort has very low special resource requirements
- Cyclops lose their usefulness if enemy can temporarily disable them. Once they're back up, they may find themselves in melee where they're not impressive at all. Ogre mages will just start bashing things once they wake up.
- Population of 6 (even) instead of 3 (odd). You get full benefit from Breeding Pits (9), no rounding down (4).

In short, Cyclops' popularity stems from the fact that they make it easier to prevent losses in minor battles. In tough battles, where losses are unavoidable, they're interesting. Similarly, you may like HOMM1/2 Sorceress army until you run into Warlock. Then shooters are a liability.

There were some very viable creature choices in H4, like Venom Spawn vs Vampires. Vampires are easier to use so most people prefer that, but VS hit very hard. Even after patches, VS on a turret makes titans run for cover. Phoenix vs Faerie Dragon.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted July 28, 2011 11:35 AM

Phoenix vs faerie? Seriously?
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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