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| Thread: A prespective from the Ubisoft generation |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 16, 2011 05:03 PM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 17:19, 16 Aug 2011.
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I do not care about legitimate additions to Might and Magic universe, or the vision of the artist, or lore. If a game doesn't appeal to me, I don't play it. I have a taste of my own. I already disliked the style of Heroes 3 expansions in some places (new artwork, even portraits like Gelu).
Until Heroes 3, HOMM wasn't closely tied to Might and Magic universe. It could easily be - and was - enjoyed by people who didn't play M&M games. The title could even be understood literally. For many people HOMM was just a strategy game in fantasy setting - and arguably good setting with good execution is much more important than a story.
Since robots and cybogs, and poorly designed at that, don't fit into many people's classic/medieval fantasy vision, they rejected that. Had Forge been better thought out, people might have reacted not as violently. Until that point Heroes was all about fantastic creatures. Even latest additions at the time, like Inferno and Fortress, consisted of already known fantastic creatures. Enter Fortress - a Heroes 5 style "faction" instead of ZOO of creatures. Forge doesn't even fit into Heroes3, I mean it's not consistent with the rest of the towns. You didn't have to know M&M universe to like any of the other town, HOMM was played even by people who didn't read fiction books.
Does Forge - as depicted in Heroes 3, I'm talking mostly about screenshots here - appeal to any person on the grounds different than "It has its place in Might & Magic the RPG universe" ? Does it look inspiring ? Original ? Tell you what's inspiring. Cyberpunk (Gibson?). Steampunk. Like them or not, these styles inspired generations of creative people. I think H3 Forge is very derivative. It could never have inspired another game designer or fiction writer.
I don't know much about the drama surrounding the plans of Forge, especially inside NWC. But they could've used some self-criticism. They overreacted. And if it wasn't for bankruptcy, the leaving of the designer could have even been a /good/ thing. See, they placed Gus Smedstead in charge instead:
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when I couldn't find a replacement for Greg in time for the project's start, I took the unusual step of giving Heroes III AI programmer, Gus Smedstad, the dual role of lead programmer and lead designer, since he understood the strategic elements of the game better than anyone except for Heroes' creator, Jon Van Cangehem.
Not a bad person to have in charge. H4 is notable for being choice-centric in its design. Not insignificant things like creature upgrades. Choose creatures instead. Attempts to make all skills, even Scouting useful. Lack of First Aid, Eagle Eye. Less Black&White sides of conflict. Stuff that even Ubisoft (initially) didn't dare to throw away, like Caravans, towers that need to be manned, strong distinctions between magic schools.
Gus Smedstad is responsible for M:TG (or Master of Magic) inspired 5 alignments:
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H4 arranges its factions ("alignments") in a way that's clearly borrowed from MTG and MOM. Who came up with this idea?
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I did. I was the only fan of either game; presenting the alignment system, how the theme would determine monster types and spells, and the basics of the revised hero skill system was how I got to be design lead. Greg had left, and the position was up in the air at the time.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 16, 2011 05:20 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 17:21, 16 Aug 2011.
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Zenofex. The mere fact that you can make up a story doesn't mean it will be good and everyone will like it. That's the case here.
People don't like Forge appearing in H3 and they forced NWC to abadon it. So simple.
Let's not start again about how many were the people who forced NWC and 3DO to remove the Forge. It's not important anyway, it's just beating the dead horse over and over again. What I'm saying is that the most common arguments against the Forge are not based on any real logic or reason. One more (and last) time - you can like, you can hate it and both of these are OK. But you are completely wrong if you say that it has not place in Heroes.
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Since robots and cybogs, and poorly designed at that, don't fit into many people's classic/medieval fantasy vision, they rejected that.
Will you stop with this "many" already? There are enough examples of very successful series where fantasy and sci-fi co-exist and this is not because a small sect of a few hundred people buys thousands of copies. The only certain thing about all this is that we didn't get to see the Forge in-game and judge it accordingly. Granted, it could have been made better, but that where its real flaws end.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 16, 2011 05:24 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 17:37, 16 Aug 2011.
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@Zenofex
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Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact that
Whether or not I like a story concept has everything to do with whether I would buy it or not. In fact, preference is the only thing that matters to me. I'm not arguing about legitimacy - it doesn't even enter into my decision-making algorithm. HoMM introduced a lot of things/creatures that had no business being there if judged purely from a historical standpoint. Were they "legitimate additions" to the game? What the heck does legitimacy even mean? It's a nonsense term in this context. Because something existed in Might and Magic, it's legitimate? Does that mean that something that did NOT exist in Might and Magic is not legitimate?
No, what I find annoying is the assumption that people who didn't/don't like the Forge concept were/are ignorant of Might and Magic the RPG. More to the point, I find it annoying that that people who DID like the Forge concept seem to think that people who had no prior experience with Might and Magic - or those who have prior experience but don't really think those games are relevant - aren't entitled to a purely aesthetic opinion. My annoyance over this kind of silly thinking extends to things beyond the Forge and HOMM, by the way - it's the "Oh, you're not a REAL fan because you haven't seen all the original TV episodes from the 1960s like I have - your opinion doesn't really count here" attitude.
MY point is that you are wrong when you state this:
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When you start accusing the Forge of being "alien" to the Heroes games, you do so from the position of the ignorance.
and this:
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Taste has nothing to do with this.
I'm not accusing anything of the sort, for one thing. I'm quite familiar with Might and Magic's history, and so ignorance is an erroneous assumption YOU make about everyone who has an alternate opinion.
When it comes to what could be in the HoMM games based on their relationship to Might and Magic, I fully recognize that the sci-fi elements of the Forge are on this list. (Although I happily point out that nowhere in the Might and Magic games were creatures running amok with laser pisols, chainsaws and machine guns, so history isn't as far in your corner as you seem to think). That said, however, I simply don't think that history should be the end-all of game design - just as I'm willing to tolerate NEW ideas that have no historical basis, I'm also quite capable of judging that OLD ideas don't always work just because they've been used before and in a completely different kind of game to boot.
In the end, I'm not going to stand here and throw some sort of fit if Ubisoft ever chooses to reinvestigate the Forge concept. And I'm not going to point my finger at modders who want to make a Forge add-on for WoG or any other Heroes game and try to argue that it doesn't belong. Especially in the latter case, I think that's great for people who believe the Forge concept could be harmoniously applied to the Heroes formula, and I wish them all the enjoyment in the world. Modding keeps the game alive, and I'm happy for all kinds of mods, no matter how bizarre, to be created, published and enjoyed.
On the other hand, for once I wish I could simply express my opinion that I don't like the Forge concept, that I find it to be an aesthetic turn off, and that I would probably not buy/download such a game/mod because it simply doesn't interest me, and I wish I could do this without being lectured to about the history of Might and Magic games, or told that I'm ignorant and not a real fan.
@JJ
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If you describe a fantastic world with "alien" laws of nature (magic??), just because SOMETHING in this world reminds of a certain known something, just because there is a similarity, it doesn't mean that the similarity can't end at ANY moment or that everything would have to be like it has been in the similar part of real existing Earth.
JJ, why don't you stop telling the world what "fantasy" is supposed to mean to everyone. Everyone has their own conception of what they like and what they don't. Because I'm a fan of fantasy literature, I'm required to just swallow every kind of thing YOU believe has a place in fantasy? Am I not allowed to pick and choose what books I like to read? Am I not allowed to pick up a fantasy book, find it takes place in New York City, and say, "Meh, not for me, I'd rather read about high fantasy that takes place in an imaginary world."? Where the heck do you get off trying to tell ME what I'm supposed to LIKE or enjoy?
I don't like my knights in shining armor blowing holes in people with shotguns. Yeah, I get it, fantasy means anything can happen, blah blah blah. That doesn't mean I can't define my own boundaries of what I like and what I don't, of what I'll accept and what I won't, and especially, of what I'll buy and what I won't. Maybe you like Sir Lancelot whipping out his ion cannon when Arthur challenges him at the bridge. I like it when he whips out a sword. I'll be there are even people who like it when Lancelot whips out his wang and they do the nasty right on the Round Table. I'm sure all of these would qualify broadly as "fantasy" and there's room enough for everyone to define their preferences how they see fit, don't you think?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 16, 2011 05:34 PM |
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Right.
But if what happened with the Forge would be a blueprint for how things should be, there wouldn't have been any HOMM games after H3, because you would have found a lot of people protesting massively against the plans for H4 and H5 - and of course for H6 as well. Still, THEY SOLD (from a business pov) and found enough players, buyers, modders, map-makers and enthusiasts, and considering that The Forge would have been part of an expansion and not "a game", it would have been alright to make it.
Sure, it might have alienated some prior fans - but look how may prior fans were alienated by IV. So what?
There are no points EXCEPT taste, and you cannot argue that. There are no points like it fits because of this or it doesn't because of that.
It is just a matter of taste, and that's subjective.
There is also no right to demand that just because a product has been to one's taste, all follow-up productios have to be to one's taste as well.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 16, 2011 05:39 PM |
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My point exactly, thank you.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 16, 2011 05:44 PM |
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Corribus, you are really overreacting. I'm not lecturing you about anything and frankly don't understand how did you get that idea. All this time I'm talking about the arguments that the people who don't like the Forge deliver. Now go through a few such discussions and you'll find exactly the things that you claim to NOT like among the posts of the people who don't want the Forge in Heroes - lectures about what real fantasy is, about how terribly wrong NWC were to even think that such a faction will be liked and whatnot. Nothing short of personal opinions presented as universal truths. THAT annoys me. To claim that the Forge was a mistake all the time while it simply didn't get a chance. To claim that it does not belong to Heroes when you have a novel's worth of lore proving that it certainly does. To claim that YOU know better simply because YOU don't like it. The opinions are fine and taste does not need explanation. The claims have to justified. Period.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 16, 2011 06:16 PM |
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JJ, why don't you stop telling the world what "fantasy" is supposed to mean to everyone. Everyone has their own conception of what they like and what they don't...
Except that you are not arguing with TASTE, but with CREDIBILITY. Also with what FITS and what not.
Fantasy, by its very nature, is everything it WANTS to be. Whether you CAN or WANT to follow everything, is yours, and yours alone andn not subject of discussion.
However, your point isn't better than others, and if you come with a point like credibility you have to accept that people may contradict you. Just because something isn't credible for YOU, it doesn't mean it's generally not credible.
For the rest, I sign Zenofex' last post. It's not me who is telling everyone what Fantasy is supposed to mean, is others telling the rest what it SHOULD NOT be, and while that may be possible with other genres in a reasonable way, it's certainly most difficult with a genre calling itself fantasy.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 16, 2011 06:23 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:39, 16 Aug 2011.
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@Zenofex
I'm not upset for the record. I'm just tired of the stereotype, and that nobody can express a simple opinion about the Forge (pro or con) without the quality of their intelligence or the magnitude of their love the game being questioned.
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All this time I'm talking about the arguments that the people who don't like the Forge deliver.
You mean what some people deliver.
My point is that you (not necessarily you, specifically) lump all of us together. I don't like the Forge concept, and never have, and the primary reason has nothing to do with Might and Magic's historical development. In fact, for me HoMM's enduring attraction has nothing to do with the main story line at all - which I usually play once for each game and then never return to - so when I judge the aesthetic appeal of a new entry in the franchise, I judge it based on what it will do to random maps and, particularly, user-designed maps. I hope you can see that from my perspective. Yes, it's a Might and Magic game, but many people who play HoMM don't really see it, functionally, as one, because the "official story" takes up only a tiny portion of actual playtime. For people like this, the "official" MM canon is irrelevant, really. We're aware of it, but it doesn't matter, because for us Heroes of Might and Magic is about 99.9% Heroes and 0.1% Might and Magic. The game could easily be called Heroes of Strength and the Arcane, and we'd still be happy as clams. 
I understand that a lot of the Forge haters were whiney brats who didn't know the first thing about Might and Magic's historical development - though they are nonetheless entitled to their opinion - but on the other hand, a lot of us have been with Might and Magic since the beginning and simply feel that what worked great in one series wouldn't work so well in the other. We, that is to say, I, don't really care that Might and Magic's traditional lore incorporated sci-fi, and that a (very small) portion of this sci-fi became a functional (vs. conceptual) part of the games.
All I care about is whether I like what I see, and what I saw of the Forge I did not like. That's really all there was to it. It's not like I would be calling for some sort of boycott if the Forge was ever published. I'm just saying that I probably wouldn't like it or buy it, a decision made by an individual consumer.
@JJ
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Except that you are not arguing with TASTE, but with CREDIBILITY. Also with what FITS and what not.
No, wrong. I'm arguing about what fits in with what I expect from a fantastical story that I might enjoy. For me, orcs wielding plasma canon stretches beyond the point of credibility and plausibility, such that I can no longer suspend my belief (or, I can no longer suspend my ability to ignore what I consider to be downright ridiculous). Maybe other people don't have a problem with that - great for them. For me, fantasy is not about having no rules, about anything being possible. It's not a dream state. Even a fantasy world - FOR ME (do I need to write this in every sentence? I will if it makes you feel happy) - has to be internally consistent. It has to obey a set of rules. These rules can be broad and even poorly defined, but I don't like the kind of fantastical exploration where just everything is possible, where physics is just thrown out the window, and where nothing makes sense. For that reason, I can't stand extended dream sequences - in fantasy stories or "real life ones". I find them tedious, stupid, annoying, and without any credibility. When anything is possible, what's the fun of that?
I mean, imagine a work of fiction where the hero is having a sword fight with the villain and the villain finally wins the day. He has the hero on his knees, is about to swing his massive black sword when the hero smiles and says, "Hey aren't you forgetting something?" Villain says, "Huh?" Hero says, "My floating pink unicorn with the laser cannon." Suddenly behind the villain pops into existence (with an audible *pop*) a pink unicorn with a massive cannon strapped to its back. BLAM BLAM, the villain dissolves into a pool of good. Story over, hero wins.
Well, it's fantasy after all, so anything can happen. Sorry, but I'd find that sort of ending retarded, fantasy or not. Granted, that opinion is related to my personal preference for what a good fantasy story should entail. Other people may just go to the flow, or think the sudden appearence of pink unicorns with futuristic weapons is perfectly acceptable or enjoyable. Great for them. I can only speak to how I define enjoyable fantasy stories, and ones which mix very different fantasy/sci-fi sub-genres are, generally speaking, not enjoyable to me.
(Though not always - provided it's done well, perhaps, or if I go in with the expectation that such contrastic elements are going to be there, then maybe. I judge things on a case-by-case basis with the information that's provided. But generally speaking, I find the inclusion of advanced technology in a traditional world to be jarring, anachronistic, and unenjoyable).
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 16, 2011 06:24 PM |
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There are far too many people who see a "Fantasy World" as something closed, as a world, firmly set in some context.
However, each Fantasy World is a FANTASTIC world, first and foremost, which means that everything can happen. Really everything. That there IS NO firmly set context.
I think that is completely wrong. We're talking Fantasy as a genry, and that genre has some very well defined rules and formulas. Of course you have your liberty to develop your own setting, but one of the core elements of Fantasy is that it takes place in some sort of imaginery "mideval" world, i.e. something of the past, which makes it very poorly compatible with Sci-Fi, which by definition exists in a future setting (which makes it double ironic that these two genres are frequently grouped together in book stores).
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What will happen now?
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 16, 2011 07:27 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 19:29, 16 Aug 2011.
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Reading this interesting discussion has proved to me; that long years ago: Tolkien made a necessary and creative-destinction about Fantasy in general. I have no doubt now, that he saw a need to make a semantic division within the very broad realm of Fantasy. He classified (I'm not sure but maybe originated) the term "Faery"(Not-fairy) a.k.a "The Fairy Story" and "Once upon a time" etc.
To JRRT; "Faery" consists of what I view as elements of the Old World of Medieval imagination, while "Fantasy" may include some of the old models but, <imo> in general, this definition covers the fantastic and covers all of Science Fiction.
I'm not saying the two cannot be morphed but I keep them quite a distance apart in my mind. As I've aged, I know that I entrenched with a tight-view of what belongs in my Faery-World. However when it comes to talking "Fantasy" anything can work...even Forges.
I like using the two terms because I think it helps define some boundaries between the old and new. However, like all else; what "fits" is always up the the individual,
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 16, 2011 07:48 PM |
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Wiki says this, Alci:
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Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. Many works within the genre take place in imaginary worlds where magic is common. Fantasy is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of (pseudo-)scientific and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (which are subgenres of speculative fiction).
In popular culture, the genre of fantasy is dominated by its medievalist form, especially since the worldwide success of The Lord of the Rings books by J. R. R. Tolkien. In its broadest sense, however, fantasy comprises works by many writers, artists, filmmakers, and musicians, from ancient myths and legends to many recent works embraced by a wide audience today.
@ Corribus
You failed to mention that it is your personal opinion and take on things in this:
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Except there's historical precedent for mining under a castle to take down the walls, with or without black powder. More to the point, I think you'll agree there's a conceptual difference between black powder, which existed in our Middle Ages, and laser guns or cyborgs. One requires a little suspension of disbelief. The other stretches the bounds of credibility past the point of breaking.
You come up with something like "historical precedent" to back your personal, subjective opinion with something that lifts it into the realm of the more-than-subjective - to back it with "reason".
And I think that is a fatal error. How do you explain a "teleporter" (the portals in the game that instantly transport you). Isn't that SF?
And Laserguns? What are laserguns other than thin tubes attached to a box containing a scroll for a spell called "Light Beam", with a "trigger" that invokes said spell (and if the spell scroll is used up, you need to fit in another)?
Whether it's magic or technology, is in the eye of the beholder - and of course a question of naming.
In fact, if you argue with logic, in a world with magic it's clear that things may NOT be like they were. Is it so far out to imagine sell-mages earning their money by crafting cantrips like "clean-the-dishes"? Is it so far out to assume, that magic may simply take the place of technology producing a comparable world to ours - based on magic? Horseless carts powered by little sprites or movement spells (which have to be reloaded regularly, while sprites would have to be feeded)?
This would not have been the case with the Forge though. Flashnack to those teleporters - is it so far out to assume that ANYTHING may come through those, one day? Unbidden? If it was a hooror story, it would be Cthulhu or some demon or other - except that they are actually already there.  No, it IS technology, and what happens is a fusion of magic and technology to technomancy, and that's fantasy alright, because it's not SCIENTIFIC.
After all, it's called SCIENCE Fiction and not FUTURE fiction.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 16, 2011 10:58 PM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 16, 2011 11:10 PM |
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 17, 2011 12:51 AM |
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Kicking against some shins here in blissful ignorane  , in my opinion the implementation of the Forge Town (as I have seen it from screenshots) just doesn't mix with the rest of the Towns, just like oil doesn't mix with water. If you take a look at the other 8 Towns (I am ignoring Conflux here, since it replaced the Forge Town), they all considered medieval technology, mixed with magic. Perhaps the only exception was the Tower, which featured Golems. Animated metallic servants, but that was it.
The Forge Town revolved around highly advanced technology, slapped onto creatures from various different backgrounds. The creatures themselves made no coherent mixture, whatsoever, if you considered their presence in relation to the other existing Towns. The technology itself was so abhorrently different and higher advanced than anything in the rest of the Heroes of Might and Magic world, that it just didn't fit for me.
Does that mean I am against the concept? Not at all. If it was present in the M&M games, then it should be possible to get implemented in the HoM&M games as well. Apparently, if these Forge Town aspects are readily apparent in the M&M games, then by its basic implementation the HoM&M games were in error to purposefully exclude them. If they're not as apparent in the M&M games, then the Forge Town implementation was completely over the top with respect to the rest of the world - and for me that was a serious discrepancy, one that killed suspension and belief in the coherence of the world as a whole.
I admit that I never played any M&M title, so hopefully someone can clarify this for me:
- did Chainsaw Zombies ever show up in any M&M title?
- did Naga Tanks ever show up in any M&M title?
- did Rocket Troop Minotaurs ever show up in any M&M title?
I don't know the other creature types from the Forge Town and not interested in looking them up right now, considering the time I write this; one general question: how readily apparent were these creatures in the M&M universe, if they occured there at all?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 17, 2011 01:12 AM |
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There were drones and robots and stuff in the early M&M games.
The latter ones had cyber-bone-dragons (security droids) near the end.
The forge creatures were a result of the Heavenly Forge which was discovered in the "evil ending" of Might and Magic VII.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 17, 2011 01:36 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:37, 17 Aug 2011.
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Let's not start again about how many were the people who forced NWC and 3DO to remove the Forge.
The hundred or so who sent death-threats I believe. Of course, when things are bad enough that those get thrown around you can bet a hell of a lot more people who don't like it, but are too placid to speak up.
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But you are completely wrong if you say that it has not place in Heroes.
Forgive my ignorance, but weren't the Kreegans meant to be techo-aliens?
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Will you stop with this "many" already? There are enough examples of very successful series where fantasy and sci-fi co-exist and this is not because a small sect of a few hundred people buys thousands of copies.
Yes, there are successes, but they mostly start out with the sci-fi elements, rather than trying to add them in half-way through.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted August 17, 2011 07:41 AM |
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Kicking against some shins here in blissful ignorane , in my opinion the implementation of the Forge Town (as I have seen it from screenshots) just doesn't mix with the rest of the Towns, just like oil doesn't mix with water. If you take a look at the other 8 Towns (I am ignoring Conflux here, since it replaced the Forge Town), they all considered medieval technology, mixed with magic. Perhaps the only exception was the Tower, which featured Golems. Animated metallic servants, but that was it.
I agree on this.
Heroes 3 factions minus Forge and Conflux can be described in simple words to anyone with basic knowledge of myth and folk tales. Now forge...
"- Juggernaut. - What's that ?"
"- Cyber dead. - What ?"
"- Pyromaniac. - How does it look like ?"
"- Jumping Soldier. - A mercenary with a pole, right ? Or do you mean a mounted one ?"
"- Tank. - Oh, finally one I know ! But..."
"- Stinger. - Some bug ? Or the air to air missile ?"
I see nothing wrong with Golems. They were not medieval in the sense that they weren't "invented" in medieval times, but they come from Jewish mythology and they were widely known by the time. Likewise, devils and angels are present in Jewish mythology, although one must say they're fairly generic and appeared in one form or another in myths all over the world. True, Jewish Golem was made of clay...
The thing with Golem from Tower is that it's done tastefully, it fits with the rest.
Forge was supposedly made of abducted creatures. Common sense at least would suggest to give them some running theme, something easily noticeable like "cyber implants" grafted to their heads.
NWC had their chance with Kreegans, but decided to play it safe... or just wanted to have a classic demon town.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 17, 2011 07:50 AM |
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Well, what we've seem to have established a gazilion times now is that what fits in from a lore perspective clashes with what fits in from an aestethical perspective, for some people at least. How about we leave it at that? 
____________
What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 17, 2011 08:45 AM |
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But what's the point? It was supposed to clash aesthetically. That's the twist that makes it so evil. It's an invader, something parasitical. Creeping through the portals is the cold metal of an alien thing called technology, and under the influence of magic something gruesome is created. It's not so different from Necromancy, this Technomancy, which fuses living flesh with dead machine.
Like out of one of the stories of 50 years ago, when radiation creates mutant monsters. They are not meant to stay and be the beginning of a new species.
After all, it was an expansion. I mean, the Conflux isn't a "regular" town either with units being completely out of whack, best units being immune against most magic, their magic heroes starting a lot better than every other magic hero and their might heroes having strange specials.
Remember, Heroes 3 was made in a time when games were supposed to be published FINISHED and COMPLETE. So the first addon was not supposed to be Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Part 2, that would come with a "missing" town that didn't made it into the game release. It was meant to be a BONUS feature.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted August 17, 2011 09:19 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 09:22, 17 Aug 2011.
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But what's the point? It was supposed to clash aesthetically. That's the twist that makes it so evil.
Inferno burned an entire halfling kingdom to the ground and their town didn't look like shyte.
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Well, what we've seem to have established a gazilion times now is that what fits in from a lore perspective clashes with what fits in from an aestethical perspective, for some people at least. How about we leave it at that?
Apparently not :|
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