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| Thread: 1.3 Multiplayer impressions, suggestions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 20, 2011 09:42 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:47, 20 Aug 2011.
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Were they good necro players? Using 'turtling'?
Advanced tactic skill may help, morale, luck, initiative boost. In my game happen - First turn two stacks of glory clean up the way to Necromancer champions. Sisters may help to clean the meat barrage. Angels good morale, block on Necromancers champions. Summon from light magic near rest necro shooters . And so on ... Mass light shied (forget the name), vs mass vampirism may help units focus one by one.
Seen that. Puppet Master on the Glories during round 1, use them to blind the Vestals (eventually the Marksmen, depends on where the Vestals are positioned) - the effect won't be dispelled because when they are "puppeted", the Glories are considered your creatures - then kill the Glories themselves with the Liches (if the stacks are two, target the other with the Fate Weavers). The rest of the Haven units are insufficient to break the turtle quickly enough and suffer a lot of casualties.
I think I found sort of a solution with Stronghold but again you have to be a bit lucky. Heroic Charge on the Enraged Cyclopes, then Mighty Slam against the three creatures forming one of the "walls" of the turtle. Hurts quite a lot. With Archery III the Centaurs and the Goblins will reduce the number of the Liches greatly before the latter get the chance to shoot (use the racial as well). Of course Counterstrike III is a must as well so the opponent can think twice before attacking the Cyclopes which destroy the wall. Then it's a matter of breaking through the survivors with the Harpies and the Crushers. It is relatively easy to open a gap quickly this way but the essence is the casualties caused by the first attack of the Cyclopes - Necropolis finds it rather hard to just ignore them, even with its insane resurrection.
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 11:27 AM |
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Edited by conqr at 11:29, 20 Aug 2011.
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In my game happen - First turn two stacks of glory clean up the way to Necromancer champions
Against a magic necro with high magic defense, even with both the glories getting luck it should not be possible to kill the lamasus though (moral does not help out the golories).
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Puppet Master on the Glories during round 1
Aren't the glories fast enough so that cant happen?
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Heroic Charge on the Enraged Cyclopes
I tried it some time ago on cyclops, and it did not increase the damage with mighty slam (ok tried it again, and it did not increase it). Are you certain that it works?
There might be a bug with the initiativity system though, after a mass inner fire the cyclops can act before the vamp even though it has 5 less ini. Because of this the following combination is really powerful right now:
Stronghold might hero + mass inner fire + mighty slam + cleave.
This might be a 100% chance to take down the 'wall' and block shooters (of almost any race).
Without the bug(?) vamps would come sooner, and the necro player could block the cyclops, same with heaven and champions, they come before the vamps after a haste/inner fire even with 5 ini less.
My idea with dealing with necro would be a timed petrification with most of the magic heroes. (There are many ways to make it almost impossible for the necro player to prevent it).
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 20, 2011 12:16 PM |
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Aren't the glories fast enough so that cant happen?
When I tried it the Vampires acted before them. Maybe the opponent didn't have Ambush, not sure.
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I tried it some time ago on cyclops, and it did not increase the damage with mighty slam (ok tried it again, and it did not increase it). Are you certain that it works?
It's about getting the Cyclopes to the turtle ASAP so you can try with Haste as well. I just didn't have it when I tried this approach. 
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This might be a 100% chance to take down the 'wall' and block shooters (of almost any race).
It might be difficult against Inferno. If the Pit Lords manage to activate the effect of Blade of Hatred on the Cyclopes (Pit Lords act before them), it could hurt your army a lot and allow Inferno's troop to advance against you, which puts you into a rather bad defensive position. I tried it against one Stronghold player and although he didn't seem to be very good, it seemed effective. Will give it a bit more testing though.
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted August 20, 2011 05:17 PM |
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Edited by DIEGIS at 17:19, 20 Aug 2011.
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Ghosts or hero (may be only necro) cant attack darkness elements! 
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
www.cabinet-dentaire-malaunay.fr
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted August 20, 2011 09:15 PM |
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Well if there is one thing to say about this game then it is that all factions are extremely interesting to play.
I just wish I could have light magic with my Inferno.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 09:38 PM |
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I just wish I could have light magic with my Inferno.
I knew you are the evil one
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted August 20, 2011 10:17 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 22:18, 20 Aug 2011.
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Just meet a Sanctuary hero who taught me how to counter Counterstrike III properly.
1. Use Spring Bond with your Mizu-Kamis on a friendly unit.
2. Then your hero casts Retribution Aura III on that selected friendly unit. (So that both that unit and the Mizu-Kami will have it.)
3. Proceed to attack with both the Mizu and the other unit, the biggest and meanest of the enemy's stacks(preferably their champion.)
...and then just enjoy the show when the enemy slaughter their own army which their double retaliation...
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 10:55 PM |
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Just meet a Sanctuary hero who taught me how to counter Counterstrike III properly.
1. Use Spring Bond with your Mizu-Kamis on a friendly unit.
2. Then your hero casts Retribution Aura III on that selected friendly unit. (So that both that unit and the Mizu-Kami will have it.)
3. Proceed to attack with both the Mizu and the other unit, the biggest and meanest of the enemy's stacks(preferably their champion.)
...and then just enjoy the show when the enemy slaughter their own army which their double retaliation...
That only works with sanctuary, though...I don't see a real way for other factions to counter it. Counterstrike at the moment is pretty overpowered (if you can deal more damage on your enemy's attack, that's ....)
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 11:03 PM |
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Edited by conqr at 23:09, 20 Aug 2011.
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Isn't it funny, how carefully the game is designed so that you can't make your opponent trigger hateful retaliation, while they leave retribution to be triggered so easily.. xD
High magic defense can ease the pain, frozen ground before and puppet after might help (does it?), you have to guess right though.(And of course ressurection counters it  ..)
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I don't see a real way for other factions to counter it
Turtle and shoot. : p xD
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 11:38 PM |
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Edited by conqr at 23:44, 20 Aug 2011.
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When I tried it the Vampires acted before them. Maybe the opponent didn't have Ambush, not sure.
They are the same speed, and when the haven player used two stacks of glories the order was always (afair) G-V-G for me.
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It's about getting the Cyclopes to the turtle ASAP so you can try with Haste as well. I just didn't have it when I tried this approach.
With tactics 2 they should have a fair chance to reach the wall movement wise, their initiativity and damage is really important, mass inner fire (with initiativity bug) is in my opinion a really good choice.
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It might be difficult against Inferno. If the Pit Lords manage to activate the effect of Blade of Hatred on the Cyclopes (Pit Lords act before them)
If the stronghold player starts the battle, with inner fire (and the ini bug) it will have a chance (centaur to be the 3. to act, or moral) to use the racial and therefor get the cyclops to go even before the ravager.
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 20, 2011 11:53 PM |
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I don't see a real way for other factions to counter it
Turtle and shoot. : p xD
Haha, yes, a simple counter, but I don't feel like you should have to rely purely on ranged power for 4 whole turns (booooring >.< just because someone has counter...
There has to be a blood counter for counter. Maybe 50% chance for blood heroes for no retail during the first 2 turns? I think that might make blood/tears more balanced. At the moment if you exclude special abilities (like blood death knight's insane resurrect skill) tear-oriented heroes are significantly stronger than blood-oriented heroes.
This might not be that big of a deal in the real game, where blood heroes would get more exp (thanks to chasing and fighting stacks) and more levels to compensate, but in duels it makes a huge difference.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 21, 2011 07:36 AM |
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That only works with sanctuary, though...
No, not only. I had the same situation against Haven - a single attack against the creature on which it was cast slaughtered half of my army. At the moment Retribution Aura is completely and unquestionably broken, way more than Counterstrike, Petrify and the other massively abused spells and skills.
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They are the same speed, and when the haven player used two stacks of glories the order was always (afair) G-V-G for me.
I gather you mean Initiative. In this case I probably had Ambush while the other guy didn't. In any case, even in the order mentioned by you, the Haven player will need some mass Initiative-boosting spell to make use of the second Glory stack, otherwise you just cast Puppet Master on it and use it to blind the next most dangerous enemy stack (I don't know if blinding the other Glories is possible, haven't tried it - if it is, then it should be even easier).
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With tactics 2 they should have a fair chance to reach the wall movement wise, their initiativity and damage is really important, mass inner fire (with initiativity bug) is in my opinion a really good choice.
If you can get to the wall without casting Speed-boosting spells, that's even better. I'm talking about scenarios where the Necropolis player has decided to put his army in the corner which you can't reach straight away to make good use of Mighty Slam. Moreover, Necro can try to counter this with Mass Slow before the Cyclopes act (at least the Vampires should act before them) so I guess you are better off ensuring that you'll get to the wall ASAP. Needs further testing though and my PC currently has no OS after a series of problems yesterday (I'm currently writing from work ).
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If the stronghold player starts the battle, with inner fire (and the ini bug) it will have a chance (centaur to be the 3. to act, or moral) to use the racial and therefor get the cyclops to go even before the ravager.
The Ravagers always act first against Stronghold in my experience so the arrangement should not be a problem. Question is what happens if the Stronghold army gets to your shooters. I had a game like that yesterday before the problems with the PC and the opponent won because he got morale with the Cyclopes and the Dreamreavers just when he needed it and managed to block my two Temptresses stacks. The Pit Lords single-handedly slaughtered more than half of his army but left without support were eventually overwhelmed. This wouldn't happen if the Temptresses (and the Breeders which were close) were not blocked but there you go...
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 10:11 AM |
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Edited by e3772014 at 10:21, 21 Aug 2011.
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No, not only. I had the same situation against Haven - a single attack against the creature on which it was cast slaughtered half of my army. At the moment Retribution Aura is completely and unquestionably broken, way more than Counterstrike, Petrify and the other massively abused spells and skills.
Oh wow, I just tried it. Damn this thing is so broken.
And the reason I thought it was a sanctuary-only skill is because I've only used stronghold and inferno so far and they don't have access to it haha.
EDIT: And this furthers my point. This game at its current stage favours the defender way too much.
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Vaeledrin
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 12:08 PM |
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The annoying thing about Retribution Aura + Haven is the fact that Angels don't suffer from negatives ;p which makes the situation even worse though I guess the cleansing effect is also pretty annoying from Sanctuary.
Also Abyssal Gate really needs to get fixed.
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conqr
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 12:12 PM |
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Moreover, Necro can try to counter this with Mass Slow before the Cyclopes act
Im much more afraid of petrification though, neutralizing both the champion and the first turn spell. First blood ability will help as well, but if you cant get a frist turn mighty slam without movement increasing spells, then it indeed can get pretty hard.
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The Ravagers always act first against Stronghold in my experience so the arrangement should not be a problem.
In my testings in many cases it was the opposit (either both ot neither had ambush), i really wonder what this depends on (is it truly random?).
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 12:14 PM |
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Edited by e3772014 at 12:15, 21 Aug 2011.
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Yeah, I actually haven't lost a single game since I started using retribution aura...
Just attack their strongest stack and watch all their units die.
Right now from what I can see, while retribution aura makes haven and sanctuary ridiculous, necro has that OP turtle strat, and cyclops special can clear a whole row of units...inferno is the only faction that doesn't really have an edge.
I hope some of the community developers read this thread lol. I hope heroes (duels) will be more balanced by release, since it has the potential to be a great part of the multiplayer experience.
EDIT:
@Vaeledrin
Yes, I still can't figure out what abyssal gate does...
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted August 21, 2011 12:37 PM |
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I have been playing Inferno with great results.
I haven't been playing that much and I maybe I haven't meet the right opponents.
But it really feels that Inferno are so, so strong in the long run. With their mass gating and mother breeders they can outlast most opponents. Also if you have the double stack Lilim you have great ranged capabilities.
However I'd like to try it more, but most opponents just die. So it's hard to know how good it actually is... :/
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Vaeledrin
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 12:41 PM |
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Abyssal Gate combat to cease functioning and the only way out is to exit, it was also a nice test to see what would happen when the timer ran out but you quit.
By the way, if you want to abuse properly pick a Tears Haven hero next time and get 112%+ feed back rather than anything below 100%. Though if you have any creative talent or skill, I think Inferno needs more help than Haven so you should direct your attention there. ;P
Also, is it me or does the Tears Mage ultimate for Necropolis not work at all?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 21, 2011 01:03 PM |
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Improved Light Magic improves the damage of Glories and Vestals.
Each of my Glory stacks now deals more damage than my Angels.
I think the Glory is one of the most fun and useful creatures in the game.
I can't believe that I actually said that I thought they were the worst creature ever in the Heroes games several months ago.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted August 21, 2011 01:03 PM |
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The Ravagers always act first against Stronghold in my experience so the arrangement should not be a problem.
In my testings in many cases it was the opposit (either both ot neither had ambush), i really wonder what this depends on (is it truly random?).
Both factions highest ini is 55. But Stronghold Shaman got "Earth and Sky", so if the player uses a magic Stronghold they will be first. Otherwise I think it's random, unless one got Ambush and the other does not.
Can someone be so kind and say detailed how Celestial Armor and Retribution Aura works?
And if you can, use the incoming damage of 1000 or 2000 to make things a little easier to understand
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