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| Thread: On Might & Magic Abilities |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 22, 2011 03:11 PM |
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Quote:
And yes, earth can cover inferno's indeficiencies, it's all a matter of timing. And combos
In a duel this is partially true if you add the Petrify spam in the equation (for instance). In a real game it does little on its own and has 3 turns of cooldown. While you're waiting for it to recharge, your regular Necropolis player will abuse Necromancy + Specters + Drain Life (and this is still 1 spell cast at a time) which will allow ihim/her to overcome a much bigger neutral army than you will be able to. Haven will mix Sisters + Healing with similar effect. Etc. And it's not like Inferno becomes much stronger with the upper tiers. All in all the situation with the healing is one huge mess which will be very hard to balance.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2011 03:21 PM |
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An 20+% stoneskin doesn't hurt either. Add regen and/or vampirism and inner fire and things look so much better. Petrify as you mentioned. Considering the aforementioned and disorganizing enemy formations with poison cloud..
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 22, 2011 03:29 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:31, 22 Aug 2011.
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Petrify and Poison Cloud are available after level 15, I'm talking about the early game. The duels are not really showing the real strengths and weaknesses of every faction but only the overall power of its army and the usefulness of the respective Blood and Tear heroes. Actually in a duel I have pretty successful games with Inferno, even against Stronghold (nothing vs. all but the weakest Necropolis players of course), but that's with the 2 x Lilim setup which apparently is fictitious and with some luck here and there. In a normal game you will have to clear mines, fight creeps for XP and artefacts and so on and Stone Skin won't help you much there. Drain Life is OK but still harder to use compared to the regular healing and consumes spell points while there are 3 factions which get better results for free.
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Fang
Hired Hero
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posted August 22, 2011 04:27 PM |
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Edited by Fang at 16:28, 22 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
@Fang
I wouldn't know, other abilities get a boost at lvl 1 reputation.
Actually your right it did increase. It only shows on the battlefield when I mouse over heroism on a unit.
@Vangelis
This thread is not meant as a strategy/tactics/duel discussion, it is about ability system impressions.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2011 05:55 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 17:55, 22 Aug 2011.
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and what if they remove the healing ability from spectres? it's not like they don't have any other interesting abilities.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 22, 2011 06:16 PM |
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It won't change much. Necromancy will still be enough to (over)heal your army and you have Drain Life as well which, conveniently, the opponent can not use against you. Maybe they'll have to apply a bit more tactics but that'll be all.
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2011 06:46 PM |
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Edited by e3772014 at 18:49, 22 Aug 2011.
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Quote:
An 20+% stoneskin doesn't hurt either. Add regen and/or vampirism and inner fire and things look so much better. Petrify as you mentioned. Considering the aforementioned and disorganizing enemy formations with poison cloud..
Most of these skills are also available to all the other factions. It doesn't really balance inferno lol...I think you should try some multiplayer (duels and standard) with decent necro/haven/sanctuary players to find out how broken those factions are.
Forced retaliation with retribution aura (especially on sacred kirin on turn 1) is a complete gamebreaker-and if you use it/see it used you would know what I mean. No amount of support spells can counter the damage you deal to your own army with 30 champion units. Necro ranged damage needs to be nerfed. Even without healing from spectres I win 100% of duels while using necro.
IMO stronghold is not really overpowered. Probably because retribution aura for haven/sanc and puppet master for necro totally destroy stronghold. They're obviously not weak like inferno though
@Zenofex
I don't know how you're winning duels with inferno against sanc/haven. Have you seen retribution aura in action?
EDIT:
As for spectre, I don't think removing its healing ability will make a huge difference, however, I DO think it should be removed. Its damage is not bad and it has that insane 40 or 50% (don't remember) resistance to physical damage.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2011 07:18 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 19:19, 22 Aug 2011.
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and all the cool(?) abilities of the fate weaver are wasted because shooting is enough? what's the form that can shoot actually? why would a spider shoot? that looks so badass as a melee unit, leave the range attack to the titan...
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e3772014
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2011 07:38 PM |
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Quote:
and all the cool(?) abilities of the fate weaver are wasted because shooting is enough? what's the form that can shoot actually? why would a spider shoot? that looks so badass as a melee unit, leave the range attack to the titan...
I agree. I wonder what they will do when/if they implement the tower/academy faction (I would be very sad if they never do ...) when necro already has a ridiculously strong ranged shooter. IMO that role should be given to tower/academy not necro (which I've always seen as an average-powerful mostly slow melee units with great heals and life drain)
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 22, 2011 07:44 PM |
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Quote:
I don't know how you're winning duels with inferno against sanc/haven. Have you seen retribution aura in action?
Of course I mean if they are not using it.  Retribution Aura triggered by a heavy-handed creature means instant death, that's clear enough. Also, if they use Resurrection, it's again game over due to the invulnerability bug. Without these spells though it's not that difficult to beat them, especially Sanctuary. Haven could be problematic but not nearly as much as Necropolis.
Quote:
and all the cool(?) abilities of the fate weaver are wasted because shooting is enough?
The "human form" is slow and deals less damage, even though it does have one very powerful ability reflecting huge amount of melee damage - it's even overpowered in my opinion but it's just one of the many broken broken things in Necropolis' list. The "spider form" is much easier to use (and abuse) due to the huge damage and no range penalty.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 08, 2011 01:37 PM |
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Does anyone think a "skill wheel" (like in H5) is possible in H6? Too many choices maybe to make one....and all abilities are in isolation (ie. don't need an ability of another skill/school to get a certain ability.....eg. empathy for warlock needing enlightenment arcane excaltation)
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 08, 2011 04:00 PM |
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I am still confused, whether new skill system is better or worse compared to H5. It sure has some good and bad sides, just like the old one had. One thing, however, is really doing my head tho...
Without the randomness on getting skills to choose from after level up, sooner or later (and I got this very strong feeling it's gonna be much sooner than later), we're gonna see some cookie-cutter builds, which gonna be used by everyone. Once the counter build will be found, it's gonna be used over and over by everyone, until something better is discovered. Point is, once someone finds something extremely useful, anyone will be able to copy that, without any problems, as the randomness is taken away...
I'm not saying, by any means, that H5 system was perfect, but at least it got some surprise in it, whether you will get this one skill at 15% chance, that can win or ruin your whole build. That's something that is kinda bad side in H6 system, however I'm not that experienced to say whether H6 did things better than H5.
Just my 2 cents rant anyway
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BlazeHun
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 08, 2011 04:32 PM |
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The new skill system will be good, when every build will have a counter build. This way scouting get a huge role in tactics, and this is what starcraft is all about anyway.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 08, 2011 05:16 PM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 18:04, 08 Sep 2011.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 08, 2011 11:29 PM |
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imo petrify is more useful than blind because you can use that on your own creatures (though earth elemental is probably better for that)
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 09, 2011 02:12 AM |
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So, to clarify, Petrify is like Heroes 2 stoning effect of Medusa ? The target loses turns until attacked, at which point it takes only 50% damage ?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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BlazeHun
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 09, 2011 08:07 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
every build will have a counter build.
Yes, both of them.
Is Petrify the new Blind ?
There are more then two useful builds in a skirmish game. It depends on faction, hero, map.
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted September 09, 2011 08:32 PM |
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Quote:
I am still confused, whether new skill system is better or worse compared to H5. It sure has some good and bad sides, just like the old one had. One thing, however, is really doing my head tho...
Without the randomness on getting skills to choose from after level up, sooner or later (and I got this very strong feeling it's gonna be much sooner than later), we're gonna see some cookie-cutter builds, which gonna be used by everyone. Once the counter build will be found, it's gonna be used over and over by everyone, until something better is discovered. Point is, once someone finds something extremely useful, anyone will be able to copy that, without any problems, as the randomness is taken away...
I'm not saying, by any means, that H5 system was perfect, but at least it got some surprise in it, whether you will get this one skill at 15% chance, that can win or ruin your whole build. That's something that is kinda bad side in H6 system, however I'm not that experienced to say whether H6 did things better than H5.
Just my 2 cents rant anyway
You're right man...but Ubihole wants us,the players,to find the best strategy and therefore the best race.But it will take years to find the best combination of skills as they will release add-ons with new factions,and this is enough time for them to get enough money for their pockets...They don't care about fans,all they care is money.And this way the game will last longer.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 09, 2011 09:38 PM |
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Corporations wants to make money? Game was delayed 5 times? CONSPIRACY!
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted September 10, 2011 12:37 AM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 00:38, 10 Sep 2011.
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....but, but, but if there's no randomness and no map editor, they can charge you for DLC ! In days of Heroes III no one even dreamed about DLC.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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