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| Thread: Stack XP imbalances | |
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keldorn
Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
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posted August 30, 2011 11:15 PM |
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Stack XP imbalances
Hi all.
Perhaps the error is in me but recently I realised some imbalances that are all caused by stack XP. I play WoG on at least rook difficulty, at which the AI plays "to the best of its ability". Still, in some cases it is not smart enough to take the stack XP bonuses into account, however in other cases it becomes too powerful thanks to the 3-5x XP multiplier it has. Here's a few examples of what I mean:
I) Imbalances that favors the AI:
Low level creatures get stack XP extremely quickly. In one or two months they achieve Ace rank (level 10), but at least level 8. Most abilities are already active here. Here's what I think is too powerful:
-Centaur's shooting ability
-Santa Gremlin's upgraded guards.
-Berserker fly's strike all enemies around ability
-Pikeman's 2-hex attack (the idea itself is excellent though)
-imp's flying and drastic speed increase
II) Imbalances that favor the human player:
-The opponent's units always kill the enchanter's summoned clones instead of trying to get rid of the enchanter itself. This usually leads to them losing a ranged unit's turn.
-The AI wants to destroy low-level units first and thus gets close to them. This allows the mid-level units (3-5) that already has some stack XP to crush them beneath the stones regardless of target's stack XP. The attackers are just overwhelming usually.
-The same thing applies to Santa Gremlin's guards. The AI probably don't want them to become mobile so ranged attackers always target the summoned guards. With basic tactics I can get 6 stacks of gremlins around my santa, which usually takes the AI a lot of time to completely destroy.
III) Things that don't quite make sense to me
-Level 8 dragons lose their ability to become receptive. I disagree with this. I don't think that they were too powerful if they were given receptivity at around rank 7 or 8. True, we seldom see level 8 creatures at a such high rank, but under exceptional circumstances some might occur.
-Lich's cast death ripple spell isn't very useful as it has a very limited damage even at Ace level. After two or three weeks in the game, it becomes irrelevant compared to the monsters on the map or the AI forces.
For the moment, that is all I can think of. Currently I'm not within reach of my WoG, but I'll go and check for more imbalances in a few days. Anyway, I'd like to see your opinion. Do you agree with these points or is it just me taking things too serious? 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 30, 2011 11:29 PM |
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Everything mixed with everything causes imbalances. After playing 2-3 wogified random maps games, I lost any hope that wog could work that way, unless you really know what to check/uncheck, but still tricky.
Should 8th level dragons be receptive? Level 7 aren't, so why should they be different?
Should AI target first the creature summoning? Definitely yes, but is how original AI is programmed, wog did not change anything.
Should AI aim for high level creatures first? Yes! Again programming flaw, wog did not change it.
Santa Gremlins: that's why they are a pain: they have guards. We would not call them guards if they guarded nothing.
Liches death ripple: the fastest way to destroy summoned clones around. It has nothing to do with current day/map strength.
WoG is a fast-food. If you go inside and consume all meats at once, you'll catch an indigestion. Try custom maps, because they were tested for correct balance. Anyway, random maps are too ugly  (volcanoes on snow, beurk!)
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Era II mods and utilities
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keldorn
Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
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posted August 30, 2011 11:55 PM |
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Yep, probably random maps are just too random . Still I have some points:
Quote:
Should AI target first the creature summoning? Definitely yes, but is how original AI is programmed, wog did not change anything.
Should AI aim for high level creatures first? Yes! Again programming flaw, wog did not change it.
Well, yes, I know that these are caused by original programming, but in Wog these cause too big differences to ignore. In normal HoMM3, it's definitely worth it for the AI to kill summoned stacks first, because they were only be able to be created by the clone spell. In Wog however it's way diffrent. Perhaps an ERM script could change this? Well, OK. I'm dumb when it comes to ERM so who am I to make this kind of suggestion? I just say it's worth considering...
Quote:
Santa Gremlins: that's why they are a pain: they have guards. We would not call them guards if they guarded nothing.
OK, but why do shooters target the guards as well? Maybe because of the obstacle penalty caused by the guards? Still, this is madness, not Spartaaa  . Sorry, couldn't resist
Quote:
Liches death ripple: the fastest way to destroy summoned clones around.
Oh, of course. What a trivial concept. Sorry, I cancel the question 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 31, 2011 12:06 AM |
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Quote:
but in Wog these cause too big differences to ignore. In normal HoMM3, it's definitely worth it for the AI to kill summoned stacks first, because they were only be able to be created by the clone spell.
I guess AI is programmed to attack always the creature whose retaliate will inflict the less damage. Unfortunately HoMM is not like chess ( ), AI is thinking only the current turn, without planning long term consequences. WoG is not(and can not) change AI original scripts. But it can modify settings and make AI much harder to defeat (again, see custom maps).
Quote:
OK, but why do shooters target the guards as well? Maybe because of the obstacle penalty caused by the guards?
Obviously AI want to get the santas, but can't because of guards. He thinks guards must be eliminated first, to gain access to santas.
WoG can easily modify AI characteristics but not behavior. Still, adding various immunities/abilities to AI side is equilibrating the game. The most advanced map/mod who does that is "The Dragon Slaughter", available in this forum. Author is chinese.
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Era II mods and utilities
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keldorn
Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
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posted August 31, 2011 12:17 AM |
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That sounds interesting. Altough I have tried several custom maps, some of them turned out to be just too advanced for me. But as I looked around there are some new maps available so I'll definitely try them. Anyway, I always enjoyed random WoG maps as well. They are challenging. These were just a couple of quick points. Looks like too much chess made me too foresight- and tactics-oriented . Thanks for the quick answers anyway
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