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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: 9/11 - Ten Years Later
Thread: 9/11 - Ten Years Later This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Azagal
Azagal


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Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted September 14, 2011 06:54 PM
Edited by Azagal at 18:54, 14 Sep 2011.

Quote:
Corribus:
1. Find somebody else to bother with your moralsnowry. No really.


++++TRANSLATION++++
**** he got me again. Time for my failsafe!... Plan H! Code for Helpless Diva.
++++End of TRANSLATION++++
Thank you for choosing Azagalator for your decryption.
We will find the hidden message in anything
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted September 14, 2011 07:02 PM

Brother Azagal, I am disappointed by your lack of subtility and interprention.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted September 14, 2011 07:06 PM

I will admit that I was completely awed by the pictures. I mean, the Jet, coming in, somewhat sluggishly, but also gracefully in its own way, RAMMING that skyscraper...
Awed, fascinated ... and somewhat feeling sick, imagining the people in that plane and in that tower...

It was giving war another meaning. If there was something like a Hall of Infamy, this one would be in - and very near the top of the list.
I will admit also, that for me 9/11 has something ... "elegant" artful, you might even say, how perverted this may sound. The concentration camps would be in the Hall of Infamy as well, but they are clumsy compared to that - the opposite of mass production, that is, industrialized mass destruction of humans and their dignity.

As I said, I think that 9/11 is special because of its symbolic value. This kind of action was taken BECAUSE of its show value, and I think they succeeded, with the exception that the Pentagon attack didn't really work (and imagine THAT effect in addition).

Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of people died, so that can't be good, but you have to give the operation the credit it deserves - it was a brilliant strike.


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Azagal
Azagal


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Smooth Snake
posted September 14, 2011 07:10 PM
Edited by Azagal at 19:12, 14 Sep 2011.

Yayayaya I may lack interprention skills I wouldnt know since I dont know what that is. Interpretation on the other hand... Im your man.

Now let me make my dashing escape before Corribus catches me and gives me a stern look of disapproval that will make me so much worse than anything he could ever say to me. Any more attempts at humor on my part in this topic would be distasteful, shouldnt I already have gone too far. Ergo

AZAGAL AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY~~~~
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angelito
angelito


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proud father of a princess
posted September 15, 2011 09:54 AM

I think Salamandre made a very good point on the former page.

If this would be a conspiracy, and the Towers would have been "prepared" with explosives days/weeks before 9/11, what would have happened if at least 1 of the planes would have ended like flight 93? Passengers attacked the terrorists...the plane was going down in the middle of nowhere instead hitting the goal (White House, camp David....).

And now let's face it with a normal sense of view:
Which country would kill thousands of OWN people just to have "an argument" to attack another country? Come on....
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted September 15, 2011 01:20 PM

What puzzles me is that the 9/11 conspiracy theory is in fact the opinion of majority. Not just people who like such things like NWO or chemtrails, but a big percentage of regular people. In Poland for instance more than 50% forum users believe 9/11 was a conspiracy.


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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


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What if Elvin was female?
posted September 15, 2011 01:26 PM

Quote:
What puzzles me is that the 9/11 conspiracy theory is in fact the opinion of majority. Not just people who like such things like NWO or chemtrails, but a big percentage of regular people. In Poland for instance more than 50% forum users believe 9/11 was a conspiracy.

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baklava
baklava


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Mostly harmless
posted September 15, 2011 02:17 PM

Quote:
And now let's face it with a normal sense of view:
Which country would kill thousands of OWN people just to have "an argument" to attack another country? Come on....

Not like something like that was never regarded as an option.

Anyway, don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it seems there were a few experts who did believe in the whole controlled demolition thing. There was Steven Jones and Richard Gage and their group of about 1500 "architectural and engineering professionals".

Apparently, something called the National Institute of Standards and Technology rebuffed their theory about nano-thermite (that's apparently some Star Trek shyte used for controlled demolition) found in the rubble because "there was no "clear chain of custody" to prove that the four samples of dust came from the WTC site. Jones invited NIST to conduct its own studies using its own known "chain of custody" dust, but NIST did not investigate".

Another one of those bits that always fuel fires is the fact that Jones was afterwards placed on paid leave by the Brigham Young University, which "drew criticism from the American Association of University Professors and the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both organizations are long time critics of BYU's record on academic freedom. Jones "welcomed the review" because he hoped it would "encourage people to read his paper for themselves," however the review was abandoned (contrary to Jones' request) when Jones elected to retire, effective January 1, 2007."

As a disclaimer, I didn't read everything, so this could all be taken out of context, or fall into the Crap You Read On The Internet category.

Sorry for sprouting Wikipedia around, but I don't really care about the subject enough to dig any further and neither do you guys.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 16, 2011 03:59 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:00, 16 Sep 2011.

On a side note, I'd like to ask the Americans how much media space receives the alleged attack against The Pentagon on 9/11. During the last several years I've been hearing only about the WTC here and nothing about this other part of the attacks. Moreover, nothing is being said about the victims of the crash at the Pentagon building. Why is that?

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted September 16, 2011 04:19 PM

Zenofex: Because the pentagon is low in height, and it more or less constructed to be missile proff?
I don't think anybody died either. So there is nothing but a small part of a buildings external external shell that has been destroyed.

The only reason there are conspircy theories about that part in the first place is because all videos of the event was confiscated shortly after.
Or... at the least so i have heard.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


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Kreegan-atheist
posted September 16, 2011 04:40 PM

A plane is one very large missile so I strongly doubt that there were no victims. Forget about the conspiracy, what I wanted to know is why the media refer to the attacks as "the attacks against the WTC" and not as "the attacks against the WTC AND the Pentagon" and is this only the case here or in US as well.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted September 16, 2011 04:42 PM

Pentagon wasn't destroyed - easily rebuilt; don't know how many casualties there were, but it was certainly far less than WTC attacks, and not civilians to boot; WTC collapse was in a very congested area and a symbol of American capitalism - Pentagon isn't really symbolic of much in the minds of most people.  Sight of Skycrapers collapsing is much more visually stunning than a low concrete building being punched into.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 17, 2011 04:47 PM

Quote:
Pentagon wasn't destroyed - easily rebuilt; don't know how many casualties there were, but it was certainly far less than WTC attacks, and not civilians to boot; WTC collapse was in a very congested area and a symbol of American capitalism - Pentagon isn't really symbolic of much in the minds of most people.  Sight of Skycrapers collapsing is much more visually stunning than a low concrete building being punched into.


Yeah, it was like going to the movies to see the next action packed summer blockbuster, right? Who knew that those turrrsts had it in them, to do it like Michael Bay? They knew just exactly how and when to attack, to create the most visually stunning like you said, and sensational spectacle. I would have nominated them for an oscar but I keep forgetting it was real.

And since we're talking about movies, I would like to remind you of a famous quote from Star Wars by Obi Wan Kennobi: "And these blast points are too accurate for Sand People. Only the Imperial Storm Troopers are so precise."

Anyway, Pentagon is much more of a symbol than WTC though. Outside USA, most people did not know what WTC was, until 9/11. But hey, you can't go and blow up Pentagon, right? It's actually necessairy to keep it operational! Oh snow.. I keep confusing Al Qaeda with CIA! No, Al Qaeda wasn't thinking that Pentagon should stay operational, ofcourse.

What kind of an idiot thought up such a plan, anyway? It couldn't have been the same guy who thought up the WTC strike? I mean he did not leave out anything, he knew when to strike, he knew where exactly should planes hit, he even warned the jews not to go to work that day! And then he goes and majorly snows up the Pentagon strike.

Also how come the Turrrsts think tanks for all their genious, did not follow up with the next phase. I mean, we shot the twin towers down, jolly good! What's next? "What do you mean 'what's next?' We killed WTC, we won!" Yeah but when the American War Machine comes knocking on our doors, what then? "Well, uh, we got these AK left overs from the Russian invasion and uh, these grenade boxes from our previous dealings with America. We should be fine!"

Good thinking there... It's not like you're going to spend the rest of your miserable life hiding in a snowhole, pissing your pants every time you hear a fighter jet fly by. Nope! Who in their right mind would make an attack of that magnitude against a superpower and expect to live long enough to tell the tale? Ok these guys are kamikaze but Bin Laden isn't, Saddam isn't, but they were killed off too. They are not stupid, they knew they would end up like this, they knew that they would lose everything. So they could not have done this.

I am still not convinced. I'm not supporting any demolitions theory but I'm not convinced that it's not a false flag operation. It had to happen when the people from the same administration that did the first unfinished Gulf war was in power, but that's a coincidence, right? It was a little bit too convenient that it happen at this time, because to finish the job they just needed a good enough reason and well, it didn't seem like Iraq was going to attack Kuwait again.

Dunno why were the Americans so desperate to attack Iraq, that they either allowed or directed such a terrorist strike in their own ground, against their own people. Certainly the WMD's was not it, and eventually they did not ever find any, right?

But talking about the Iraq war, the Shock and Awe operation, and all that. That was some pretty spectacular show, huh? Visually stunning, and all that! If I didn't know any better, I would say that the guy who planned the 9/11 also planned Shock and Awe!
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alcibiades
alcibiades


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of Gold Dragons
posted September 18, 2011 12:43 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 12:43, 18 Sep 2011.

C'mon guys, do you really find it more likely that the US government filled those buildings with explosives, then rigged a couple of plains and smashed them into the heart of NYC killing a couple of thousand people and then rigged another plain and smashed it into the Pentagon just to get an excuse to attack another country; rather than there being some extremists somewhere belonging to a religious culture (that we know exist and that is widely against anything western/USA-related) that hi-jacked the planes and thereby caused the incident?

And you cling on to a straw about the temperature of the explosion caused by a jumbo-jet crashing into the building not being high enough to cause a fall pattern like the one that was seen?

Even if the whole idea of a US scam to fake this was not incredibly absurd in itself, the whole physical system of a jumbo-jet crashing into a skyscraber is sufficiently complex to not just being modeled or described by everyday physical parameters. Like Corribus excellently descriped on the previous page, solid state physics under high temperature and pressure conditions is very different from what we know from everyday life. We don't know what the exact conditions are, and just because some specialists claim that they don't think they plains couldn't cause it doesn't mean that they are right.

Also, please get a reality check. We're not talking some movie or computer game where evil villains plan their dark schemes without regards for their associates lives. Much as I loathe George Bush, do you really think his administration or the CIA or whoever would supposedly be behind this would accept killing several thousand innocent US citizens to start a war, and do you really think they would get it through to happen without anybody speaking up?
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 18, 2011 01:40 PM
Edited by kodial79 at 13:45, 18 Sep 2011.

Quote:
C'mon guys, do you really find it more likely that the US government filled those buildings with explosives, then rigged a couple of plains and smashed them into the heart of NYC killing a couple of thousand people and then rigged another plain and smashed it into the Pentagon just to get an excuse to attack another country; rather than there being some extremists somewhere belonging to a religious culture (that we know exist and that is widely against anything western/USA-related) that hi-jacked the planes and thereby caused the incident?

And you cling on to a straw about the temperature of the explosion caused by a jumbo-jet crashing into the building not being high enough to cause a fall pattern like the one that was seen?

Even if the whole idea of a US scam to fake this was not incredibly absurd in itself, the whole physical system of a jumbo-jet crashing into a skyscraber is sufficiently complex to not just being modeled or described by everyday physical parameters. Like Corribus excellently descriped on the previous page, solid state physics under high temperature and pressure conditions is very different from what we know from everyday life. We don't know what the exact conditions are, and just because some specialists claim that they don't think they plains couldn't cause it doesn't mean that they are right.

Also, please get a reality check. We're not talking some movie or computer game where evil villains plan their dark schemes without regards for their associates lives. Much as I loathe George Bush, do you really think his administration or the CIA or whoever would supposedly be behind this would accept killing several thousand innocent US citizens to start a war, and do you really think they would get it through to happen without anybody speaking up?


No, no, no. I'm not supporting the demolitions theory. Planes flew to the buildings and the buildings fell. What I'm saying is, that it makes more sense being a false flag operation, carried out by whoever but in all probability USA itself, and put the blame on Islam essentially, Al Qaeda officially.

You'd be surprised how often has this happened before. Either allowing attacks on their soil or directing them by themselves as an excuse to go to war. USA has done it before, every other superpower has done it before. One thing that is for sure, is that leaders of such great powers, don't care to kill off or damage in anyway a few thousands of their own people if they think that in the long run, they have more to profit from it.

Why should the administration of today's 'Empire' be any less malevolent than a dictator of some third world country and or a so called extremist religious group? We know very well what USA is capable of, in the past, they have proved it time and again.

It's a common tactic even in chess! You sacrifice a couple of your pawns to bait your opponent. We even do it in HoMM... This is war, this is how they do it. What's the difference between taking a few thousand lives of your own people to have an excuse for war and having more of your own people dying in the war that follows? Nothing.

You see, USA sent soldiers in Iraq to find WMD's, when you and me both know by now that they knew there weren't any, and many more soldiers were killed there through time than civilians in 9/11 attacks. USA essentially sacrificed those for God knows what insidious reasons...

So they've gone and done that. There's no doubt about it. Sent several of their finest men and women to die in some foreign country. There you have it. And thinking about it, what's so impossible about the notion that USA either allowed or directed the 9/11 attacks?

As for no one speaking up. They can control the flow of information. They call everyone who talks about it, a nutjob. They don't let such news reach the mainstream media. They create outragerous false rumors and bunch them together with the more reasonable ones. They even kill off those who really need to go. And don't tell me that's impossible too! It's CIA's favorite past-time hobby!


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DagothGares
DagothGares


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No gods or kings
posted September 18, 2011 02:16 PM

Then why are the Loose Change kids still breathing?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted September 18, 2011 03:13 PM

Quote:
And thinking about it, what's so impossible about the notion that USA either allowed or directed the 9/11 attacks?


The fact that it wasn't necessary for the attack on Iraq.
For the attack on Afghanistan, sure, but not for the attack on Iraq. Here, the justification was
a) non-compliance with the UN resolutions in combination with
b) "alleged" weapons of mass destruction.

The US - the biggest world power - wouldnÄ't take such a slap as 9/11 willingly. OK, an airplane abduction, ok, a couple of dead hostages. But not that one. The reason is that the effect of something unheard-of is completely incalculable. There might be a backfire effect - like US citizens starting to lynch muslims, for example, and so on, and so forth.

So - nope. Never.

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kodial79
kodial79


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How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 18, 2011 04:16 PM

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think USA would have got to invade Iraq a second time, if the 9/11 would not have happened.

Bush Sr. invaded Iraq but for some mysterious reason (yeah, forget the official ones) they decided to move out. It felt like an unfinished project. So how was Bush Jr. supposed to finish it? How would he rally the crowds? How would he gain support or at least, not face a strong opposition? Something had to happen.

See, he still did face a strong opposition outside of the USA, for wanting to invade Iraq. Imagine if there was no 9/11. It would simply be impossible for him, to do it.

Remember how most if not all of the Americans were like prior to invading Iraq? They were all so worked up and obsessed on Terrorism, like it was the new drug! No one was doubting that Saddam had to go, that the invasion was justified. Now that the rush is fading away, do they still think so? I doubt it...

Remember how Bush said something along the lines "I don't care about Bin Laden anymore" when he was starting his invasion in Iraq? See, the guy was still on the loose, Al Qaeda was still active but Bush had eyes only on invading Iraq. It's like the whole 9/11 was used as an excuse to build up to that. As they reached the point of invading Iraq, they did not care about Al Qaeda, they have achieved their goal.

Maybe saying that they directed the strike, is too much. Just maybe... But that they allowed it to happen, and used it later on for their Machiavellian designs, of that I'm 100% sure. Besides, how many times have it been reported in the news that foreign intelligence services were warning the US all the time that terrorists were going to strike by flying planes into their targets?

Now you may say "yes, they knew it was coming but how could they prevent it?", but that's just naive. If you can recollect the past events, news reported that those warnings were ignored. No additional measures were taken at all. The truth is, they wanted it to happen.

That is if they did not direct it themselves. Come on, no one is a saint. Everyone with power will sacrifice their pawns, to get what they want. Why would USA be any different? Look at them today, it's not like they have not got over it. The country did not collapse just because those skyscrapers fell. It wasn't by any means a too heavy price to pay, for the standards of a long lasting superpower.


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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted September 18, 2011 06:31 PM

That must be some great tasting kool-aid you're drinking.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Prince of Poetry
posted September 18, 2011 09:39 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 21:48, 18 Sep 2011.

You're giving the US more credit than it deserves. It has no need to orchestrate some unfathomably complicated (and unrealistic) plot like throwing planes into the WTC in order to attack a country. The president can just send troops in and the Congress sits around impotently with their thumbs up their asses while furiously masturbating to each other. The US hasn't actually declared war through legitimate channels since WW2.
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