|
| Thread: Diplomacy, Charm, Resurrection, Summoning. Useless? | |
|
Bones_xa
Known Hero
|
posted September 11, 2011 04:02 PM |
|
|
Diplomacy, Charm, Resurrection, Summoning. Useless?
Diplomacy, Charm, Resurrection, summoning, and if not death necromancy.
All skills of the last slot, I find myself most of the time trying to avoid.
It just seems like I'd rather spend my level up skill on something better and to get further up the magic tree faster.
Are there any benefits for developing these instead of other skills?
Does everyone else always avoid these too?
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 11, 2011 07:01 PM |
|
|
|
summoning isn't bad, creatures just appear in your army for free. especially good to get an army of water elemental if I rememeber well.
|
|
keldorn
Promising
Known Hero
that casts green flames
|
|
posted September 12, 2011 04:32 PM |
|
|
Besides Chaos, every magic alignment has a skill with which you can get creatures in your army. Life has resurrection, which is without a doubt tremendously powerful. Summoning for Nature isn't too bad either, if you are actually playing with Preserve and your native creatures are all Nature-aligned, and your primary magic skill is nature magic. Necromancy for Death magic is all the same: extremely powerful if playing with Necropolis. Charms however for Order magic doesn't seem to be as great as their counterparts, because you are less likely to encounter monsters on the map from your own alignment than from any other. Nevertheless Charms is compatible with any alignment you're playing, unlike Summoning or Necromancy. Also, Order magic is quite powerful compared to other magic alignments, perhaps only Chaos is better. Speaking of Chaos, I think it's good as it is. If it allowed you to get creatures like the other 4, it would become too powerful. However Sorcery isn't the worst skill either 
After all, I think these skills may be useless if playing with non-compatible alignments, but they are nicely balanced because Charm is good for anyone. Non-magic skills like Seamanship or Diplomacy are much less powerful. That's why I seriously dislike Scouting and Nobility. They are like they only had 3 sub-skills.
____________
|
|
TheUnknown
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 12, 2011 07:16 PM |
|
|
They're all great
Sorcery is one of the best hero killers in single battle and creature killer in many battles if you can use hit and run.
Resurrection is percent based so it has extreme potential.
If you have means to get few heroes with GM summoning you may get epic creature growth. It's much better than nobility and if the map is limited to lower level creatures this skill just keeps getting better and better.
Charm may be not good enough for one battle but you can use town portal and charm them again ... It's one of the worst combos known to man 
|
|
Bones_xa
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2011 01:38 AM |
|
Edited by Bones_xa at 01:42, 13 Sep 2011.
|
It was probably not a good term to say "useless", as of course they have functionality. Its just that for most of the time why put points in these skills when you could put them in others.
For me resurrection don't have much use as I do most of my Heroes 4 fights flawless or not at all, unless I'm rushed to move.
To get GM summoning it takes 4-5 level ups or magic boosters, but instead you could have a level or two higher in nature magic or higher combat skills. I guess these last slot skills are just not my style.
Except for sorcery, that one I like to develop especially for a chaos magic hero.
Charm and town portal continually to get more troops. Thats a good one, I never thought of that.
Ideas like that is why I posted this thread. Excellent. You get my thumbs up TheUnknown. 
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2011 08:10 AM |
|
|
|
the idea with summoning is that you can then recruit something else than water elementals in the summoning portal
|
|
TheUnknown
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 13, 2011 07:44 PM |
|
|
Quote:
It was probably not a good term to say "useless", as of course they have functionality. Its just that for most of the time why put points in these skills when you could put them in others.
For me resurrection don't have much use as I do most of my Heroes 4 fights flawless or not at all, unless I'm rushed to move.
To get GM summoning it takes 4-5 level ups or magic boosters, but instead you could have a level or two higher in nature magic or higher combat skills. I guess these last slot skills are just not my style.
Except for sorcery, that one I like to develop especially for a chaos magic hero.
Charm and town portal continually to get more troops. Thats a good one, I never thought of that.
Ideas like that is why I posted this thread. Excellent. You get my thumbs up TheUnknown.
Every Skill has it's purpose and moments when it is valuable to spend your points into them. The reason you believe they may be not so valuable to choose is mapmakers fault.
Now imagine a map with very few creatures for leveling purposes and only two towns (yours and enemy's) plenty resources and only one extreme garrison between you guys. What will you do?
Will you get GM Necromancy? Hell no.
Will you get GM Charm over steal all enhancements? Maybe ... depends if you have town portal.
Will you get divine intervention or GM resurrection and be the first to clear the middle garrison for experience? I would go with resurrection.
Will you get GM summoning or the spell to summon lvl 4 creature? Of-course I would go GM summoning, in the long run it's the best.
Will you get cat reflexes or GM sorcery? I would go with cat reflexes if the enemy doesn't have heroes or I know he might get grand master resistance.
Now it does depend on the spells you will get offered, even if you get the full set of spells from a certain school of magic. The extra magic skills like Necromancy, Sorcery and the others can still be a very viable choice ... it all depends on the map.
|
|
Osmin
Hired Hero
|
|
posted September 16, 2011 01:48 AM |
|
|
I don't really think any of these skills are as useful as the ones you use to eventually get GM magic. Take Sorcery, for example. It gives you a 20 % bonus to direct damage spells. You know, Pyromancy does the same thing, and helps you build your magic skills faster. Assuming you have Master Chaos Magic, Expert Conjuration and Expert Pyromancy, I'd rather use the next five levels to get GM Chaos magic than GM Sorcery. You get more spells, and the power boost that Sorcery provides is evened out by the fact that each level provides a more powerful direct damage spell.
As for the creature gaining spells, it is written on this very site that spending 7 levels to get Master Resurrection is a good thing... as long as you expect to suffer heavy casualities. If casualities are slight, Resurrection is not very useful. I'd rather spend my levels on getting the Level 4 army-booster spells or Divine Intervention.
Nature and Death are more like it. First, their spell schools are in my opinion not as good as the spells from Order, Chaos or Life. In turn, their creature-gaining skills are quite useful if you use them right. We all know about the impressive numbers of Vampires that can be gained by the use of Necromancy and frequent battles, and Summoning is also good as long as you can control which creatures you summon. At GM level, I prefer Air Elementals because of their good adventure map movement, while Water Elementals are my second choice due to their wonderful versatility, second only to Genies. Getting a bunch of heroes to level 10 with GM Summoning will be a creature machine second to none.
Last, but not least, Charm. I don't like it all that much. While it's true that you get free creatures, more often than not they are incompatible with your army. I often fill all the seven army slots with creatures, and even if there are vacant spots in my army, one should also consider the morale penalty. Charm creatures are useful as garrison guards, but not much else, and Order Magic is simply a better choice in practically all cases.
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted April 06, 2012 05:26 PM |
|
|
A useful and well-balanced strategy. For example necromancy vs resurrection vs noble vs creature portal, but also tactics vs creature portal and noble. I'm not sure that the Order may be cast hyptonize spell before summoned monster then surrender to pay, summoned monster will continue to fight. I use very rarely, ok. Charm and dilpomacy are good used to surrender. Sorcery is really good, when 1 hero vs 100 Efreets or 1000 Griffins, the hero is responsible spider arrow (artifact with basic archery) and fatigue (2 lvl) then damage, easy! One of the more The Rescue, female hero do not need General, Resurrection and Necromancy is quite sufficient.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
|
| |
|
|
