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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Gamescom 2011 Q&A
Thread: Gamescom 2011 Q&A This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 18, 2011 05:45 AM
Edited by infinitus at 05:47, 18 Sep 2011.

Gamescom 2011 Q&A

Direct time link (for those who don't want to sit through the entire video): phtt://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9xSk6EFWc&t=13m57s

Was very sad to hear about that in Q@A. Entire H6 game budget politic sound very wrong to me. Making game is creative process and to limit imagination fly so much that even 2-3 additional character designs is a problem ... Even with relative cheap Black Hole ... How to compete in this case with Blizzard that say - "We will spent as much time, resources as needed to make our game ideal". UBI don't have ambitions to try make a better game ? People like to watch blockbusters "most expensive film in history", not "We so poor, we filmed our film with one camera with one actor in one single room" ...

And Vip funs look in this Q@A like good boys asking good questions only ...
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted September 18, 2011 07:16 AM

The explanation about the Water and the Light Elemental can hardly be worse. What "goblin with a hat", they are the same! Just admit it and be done with it - you screwed up big time with these two. You can pass the budget excuse to some brain-dead audience.
The implementation of the "legendary heroes" is as expected - names taken from the NWC universe, possibly the character of the said heroes as well but otherwise they are fully isolated from their archetypes. Now imagine Sandro jabbering the mantra "Asha uses all"...
As for the rest - unimpressive, although the promises for constant support are... well, promises at this point but at least something on the positive side of the spectrum.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 18, 2011 08:27 AM

Well, in every development process you have to make some decisions. Obviously, someone along the way thought that people wouldn't mind too much, and this was a good place to save some ressources to allocate to a different area. That's a perfectly legit decision and a sound way of prioritizing ressources. But they should have the guts to admit that based on subsequent fan reactions, it has come clear that was a downright wrong evaluation of the situation, instead of just sticking up for it with all kind of lame work-around excuses to still try to make it look like a good idea.

Kind of the same with the Town Screens. Yes, they made a decision, and it was a bad one. But nothing that can't be helped - so just come out and say clearly that they will make townscreens, even if they won't make it for vanilla version of the game. Same for Water/Light elemental. Someone messed up, and take the consequence and pay they extra dime it will cost to make a new Water and Light elemental that is unique. It might not happen before vanilla, but then tell us that it will happen. Afraid of the extra cost? Well, think of the number of fans who are currently holding back on buying the game because those issues are not settled clearly and we can't accept the current situation of the game.
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Gweret
Gweret


Adventuring Hero
posted September 18, 2011 09:44 AM

In my opinion, if they had money they would do it.
Dev will do anything if he is paid for it.
Probably someone from accounting department said: "No".
You know, if you are project manager you will spend anything which you were given.

But, it is hard to believe they could not afford making two extra models. It is not big deal for me, but still, it is a bit silly.

However, "town windows" are unforgiven. They were told many times that town windows are trash. If they don't change them it would be almost like robbery.
I'm holding my order just to see if they really make town screens.


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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 18, 2011 10:11 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 10:12, 18 Sep 2011.

If they were short on money, why didn't they just recycle the elementals à la H2?
It would've been cheap but at least it would've been consistent.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 18, 2011 10:23 AM

It can't be a badget problem. They even gone and made 3 models for each standard hero, so I don't think making a different model for every elemental would be an issue.
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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 18, 2011 10:42 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 10:44, 18 Sep 2011.

Quote:
They even gone and made 3 models for each standard hero, so I don't think making a different model for every elemental would be an issue.

It's called poor budget allocation.

People need to stop thinking that because Ubisoft is editing the game, it means that the M&M team has unlimited money. Stop daydreaming and wake up. That won't and will never happen.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 18, 2011 11:05 AM

Quote:
Quote:
They even gone and made 3 models for each standard hero, so I don't think making a different model for every elemental would be an issue.

It's called poor budget allocation.

People need to stop thinking that because Ubisoft is editing the game, it means that the M&M team has unlimited money. Stop daydreaming and wake up. That won't and will never happen.


I'm still not convinced. It's just two models for christ's sake, other people could do them for free! It should not be a budget issue with everything else they've done why stop in something so minor?

It's like saying "Ok, we've used up our budget, did everything go according to plan? Yes but-- oh snow! We forgot two elementals!" Sounds ridiculous to me...

What I think is that somehow they thought that it's a good idea to make them like that. Just like with Town Screens (although Town Screens could be a budget problem). And now they just don't want to admit it.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 18, 2011 01:42 PM

Of course it's a money issue, but not in the sense that suddenly they ran out of money and had to stop with those two money missing. Obviously, before they start the actual work, there's a planing phase where they go through what they want to have done - map objects, town windows, creature models, hero models, etc. I guess during this developing part they figured it would be ok to have those creatures share the model in order to not waste money on unnecessary model work - not necessarily because they couldn't afford those two models, but simply because they judged they were not necessary.

It may seem like a poor decision from our point of view, but we never really complained with upgrades and even alternative upgrades using pretty much the same model - so why would this be very different? After all, the Spring Spirit and Water Elemental are related. I'm not saying this because I agree, but just to say that depending on your perspective, the idea might not seem that illogical. Who knows, for all we know maybe they plan on having a Treant using the Earth Elemental model and some sort of Magma creature in Fortress using the Fire Elemental model, and a Shadow in Dungeon using the Darkness Elemental model - it doesn't have to be "illogical".
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 18, 2011 02:46 PM

Quote:
Of course it's a money issue, but not in the sense that suddenly they ran out of money and had to stop with those two money missing. Obviously, before they start the actual work, there's a planing phase where they go through what they want to have done - map objects, town windows, creature models, hero models, etc. I guess during this developing part they figured it would be ok to have those creatures share the model in order to not waste money on unnecessary model work - not necessarily because they couldn't afford those two models, but simply because they judged they were not necessary.

It may seem like a poor decision from our point of view, but we never really complained with upgrades and even alternative upgrades using pretty much the same model - so why would this be very different? After all, the Spring Spirit and Water Elemental are related. I'm not saying this because I agree, but just to say that depending on your perspective, the idea might not seem that illogical. Who knows, for all we know maybe they plan on having a Treant using the Earth Elemental model and some sort of Magma creature in Fortress using the Fire Elemental model, and a Shadow in Dungeon using the Darkness Elemental model - it doesn't have to be "illogical".


Well, these were upgrades but the elementals are supposed to be different creatures. So to me, it's illogical.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 18, 2011 03:25 PM

Well I agree with you, but I guess that depends on your point of view.
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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2011 05:06 PM

As I said over on the official forums, the worst part is the two neutrals that they chose to use the budget for to add, instead of changing the duplicates, were those wolves.

Two of the most uninspired and boring units ever to grace this series was that important to them? They were worthless and a waste of time in Heroes 5 and from fighting them in this beta I have to say the same thing about them again.



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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 18, 2011 06:35 PM

it's a point of view of developpers. copy-pastes are easier and quicker

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 18, 2011 08:26 PM

You know something?  You're right.

While we're at it, let's just make all of the Haven units use the Praetorian model.  All of the Necropolis units can use the Ghoul model, all of the Sanctuary units can use the Kappa, and all of the Inferno units can use the Breeder.

They're all basically the same unit, right?  No?  Well, at least they're related.



It could be that they're trying to protect the identity of the programmer who came up with the idea of recycling unit models.  It probably wasn't Erwan, I can tell you that; but they don't want to humiliate a designer by saying "Yes, it was a bad idea, and we're looking into whether or not that designer should remain with the company."

That said, a simple "We're working on a solution that will make everybody happy" would be better than "Well, you know, the thing is, it's a funny story, we weren't being lazy, it's just that..."  This kind of language seems to tell me that they aren't working on a solution and don't have a good way of telling us that.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 18, 2011 08:29 PM

come on, they are adults, and brainstorming is a part of the work. if they can't deal with the fact that most of their ideas will be rejected, they chose the wrong job

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 18, 2011 08:47 PM

I agree, it's a pansy way of dealing with things, but when you say "this was a mistake" you're telling your bosses, "I made this big mistake that nobody likes".

It takes a lot of courage, particularly when you're saying it to the entire fanbase.  It would be like George Lucas saying, "Sorry about Episodes I, II, and III.  My bad."

...Okay, no.  George Lucas is his own boss.  So that's a poor example.

Instead it would be like Stephen Spielberg's advisors saying, "Hey, you know when you wanted to shoot the new Indiana Jones film in old-style film and we said it was a bad idea?  We were totally wrong about that."

It would be like George Washington Carver saying, "You know, I really should have done this with almonds instead.  Who knew there would be so many people that are allergic to peanuts?"

Should they apologize?  Probably definitely.  Are they going to risk their jobs to do it?  Probably definitely not.

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DSveno
DSveno

Tavern Dweller
posted September 19, 2011 04:04 AM

Quote:
How to compete in this case with Blizzard that say - "We will spent as much time, resources as needed to make our game ideal".


Blizzard has that snow named WoW to cover their ass or whatever it is in case they make a mistake. I don't think other studio has that luxury to spend as much time and resources as they can to archive their ideal game.

Seriously, all I have been hearing recently are bad news about economy.
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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 19, 2011 06:12 AM

Didn't you know?  Video games use Monopoly money.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 19, 2011 08:14 AM

Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect £200

What was the last Heroes game that had palette-swapped units?
H2? And that game came out in 1996 and had drawn sprites instead of animated models.


Dammit, I thought French people were perfectionists who cared about art and stuff.
This is the last time I generalize an entire population

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2011 08:40 AM
Edited by infinitus at 08:50, 19 Sep 2011.

Quote:
Blizzard has that snow named WoW to cover their ass or whatever it is in case they make a mistake. I don't think other studio has that luxury to spend as much time and resources as they can to archive their ideal game.

Before WOW Blizzard attitude was the same. They spend  spend as much time and resources as they need to achieve their ideal game and players appreciate this, that why they have WOW now. Before WOW was e-sport quality games Starcraft and Warcraft 3.

Players ask for futures they need badly in game and if you ignore them, in this case it's not Blizzard story, it's story without happy end ... Story of empty online servers ...    
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY

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