|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
posted April 22, 2013 10:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Theon? The highlight of his character thus far has been almost getting raped.
^This
Also it was a nice twist about his "helper" ;P
|
|
Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 11:07 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Theon? The highlight of his character thus far has been almost getting raped.
I resemble Theon in some ways. I would've fought against the Starks too if I were a Greyjoy. OK, maybe I wouldn't stab them in the back...
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 11:25 AM |
|
|
|
If you read the books you'll know that Theon is a character that you don't want to compare yourself with, a stupid, arrogant pile of crap who thinks way too much of himself.
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 11:28 AM |
|
|
I don't want to compare myself to book Theon, but show Theon I like more.
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 02:19 PM |
|
|
hmpf. Theon is the most tragic character of our time and I really like him, actually. ^__^
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 03:50 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 15:52, 23 Apr 2013.
|
I like the Danish political drama "Borgen".
though for some reason, they have a nearly racist Liberal party
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 08:59 PM |
|
|
Most tragic character of our time, oh really. Those are some big boots, explain yourself sir 
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 09:23 PM |
|
|
Theon is already obnoxious in the series. He's worse in the book? 
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 11:27 PM |
|
|
Yes even worse in the books 
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 23, 2013 11:48 PM |
|
|
|
A tragic character must have depth and dilemma. Cersei is tragic for example, trying to compensate her unhappiness with power, yet her struggle for power brings her more unhappiness. Theon is too pathetic to be tragic.
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted April 24, 2013 12:15 AM |
|
|
Well, I can understand where Theon is coming from to be honest.
At an early age he lost his elder brothers, saw his father humiliated and was whisked away to Winterfell to be the "Guest" (a glorified term for a hostage) of the Starks. This a pretty traumatizing ordeal for a little boy, if you consider that. Balon too was traumatized and humiliated by the failed Greyjoy rebellion, but I'm not very sympathetic towards him. His stern, uncompromizing attitude led to the death of his eldest sons, and the ultimate (SPOILER) maiming and desintergration of his youngest.
In any case, while Ned tried to make Theon feel at home in Winterfell, it was obvious that Theon would never fully fit in with the Starks. He was constantly reminded that he was Their Guest, a black sheep amongst the flock, the prize of a Foolhardy Rebellion his family had incited and had to pay for. Bear in mind that while it's not Theon's fault the Greyjoy Rebellion happened, he was the subject of mockery and scorn JUST because he was a Greyjoy. I wouldn't call his youth a happy one at all.
Regardless, Robb treated him like a brother and accepted him for whom he was. Theon's betrayal was INCREDIBLY nasty toward Robb, and if I was in Robb's shoes I probably would have freaked out too. But this is about Theon, not (Hearth)Robb.
Among the Starks, Theon was the perpetual outcast. He was jerk, but hey, this is the way how SOME people deal with their crippling insecurities. Theon's lust and misogyny is not something I want to defend, but such behaviour is often the consequence of underlying frustrations and makes him, as a character, much more believable.
Theon wants, above anything, to be liked and accepted by his (surrogate) family. His departure to Pyke WAS done with the desire of helping Robb, not betraying his plans to Lord Balon, i'm sure of it. However, his confrontation with his estranged family, his humiliating display with Asha/Yara made him realize that his desperation to be liked by the Starks, made him theirs, and not the Ironborn he wanted himself to become.
So what is there to be done? Theon's story is, above anything one of Identity? Theon's moral dilemma at this moment is relatively simple in terms of complexity: Who does he pick between his friend and surrogate brother and his family, the people he *truly* belongs to, whose lands he's likely to inherit. Theon's wants to prove himself, and with Balon unwilling to compromize has to make a choice. He chooses his family.
This choice is not to underestimated in how much it screws Theon over. Either he sticks with his TRUE family and is a vile turncoat in the eyes of the Starks, or he sticks with Robb's cause whom he's closer to and knows better, but betrays his kin. It's an excruciating dilemma. Theon ultimately picks his family. Greed? A desire to be liked? Home? Whatever his true motive is, he made his choice and now there's no way back.
Theon's story IS a tragic one because he is put in a position where he HAS to make a choice, and no matter which choice he makes he'll forever be shamed. He was destined to become a Black Sheep, destined to be hated, destined to be a traitor to someone he held dear. And even when he picks a side, he will NEVER truly belong to that side either. He will always be the outsider, no matter what. THAT is tragic, regardless of how big of a misogynistic prick he is. All Theon wants is a family that respects him. And he's never going to get it.
Ok, events beyond the series so SPOILER ALERT:
After being captured by Ramsey Bolton and being severely tortured, maimed and flailed at the Dreadford, Theon becomes Ramsay's Reek. Again, a recurring theme with Theon: his identity. He is stripped of it, and given a new one. A humiliating one. One that he, in my eyes doesn't deserve to get. He's turned into the laughing stock of the Bolton household, and even after all the bad things he did, I don't think Theon merited such a treatment. All he wanted was to be accepted for who he was.
That, my friends is the tragedy of Theon Greyjoy, and this is why he's one of the most tragic (yet eeriely fascinating) fictional characters of our time.
Jezus Christ i'm reading way too much into this lol.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 24, 2013 12:36 AM |
|
|
A well made argument.
Quote:
Theon's story IS a tragic one because he is put in a position where he HAS to make a choice, and no matter which choice he makes he'll forever be shamed. He was destined to become a Black Sheep, destined to be hated, destined to be a traitor to someone he held dear. And even when he picks a side, he will NEVER truly belong to that side either. He will always be the outsider, no matter what. THAT is tragic, regardless of how big of a misogynistic prick he is. All Theon wants is a family that respects him. And he's never going to get it.
Now, I agree that the situation is first-class tragedy material but Theon's character -and I am not talking about him being a prick- is still preventing the situation to be truly tragic. Think how his own men didn't follow him into battle, how they mocked and laughed at him. Because Theon is pathetic, the dilemma you talk of hangs in the air, since whatever side he chooses, he will not be considered a true force but a pawn.
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted April 24, 2013 03:37 AM |
|
|
I haven't read the books yet but the impression I garnered from the show is that Theon pretty clearly has the type of personality where he tries too hard to prove his value to everybody around him (I'm sure we've all known somebody like that). So when he shows up again at Pyke to negotiate and his biological family ends up dissing him, in a paradoxical sort of way, their scorn is precisely what makes him crazed to try to show his family that he is indeed a worthy Greyjoy.
Do I sympathize with that? Not really. Is he the worst character in the show so far? No. He's a moron 1st and a villain 2nd.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
|
|
posted April 24, 2013 06:26 AM |
|
|
Lexx: 
We do not sow.
I like Theon best out of all the more "villainous" characters.
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 02:08 PM |
|
|
Finished The Shield, and I have to say it's one of the best shows I've ever watched. The last season was just brilliant.
Walking Dead continues to impress. It's an excellent investigation of human morality - far more than what you'd expect of a show about zombies. Little disappointed by the third season finale because some loose ends were left loose, but over all I highly recommend it.
Started watching Breaking Bad. Very entertaining despite some annoying scientific inaccuracies - although they're the sort that probably only someone of my professional background would pick up. I'm in the beginning of season two, so no spoilers please!
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 02:23 PM |
|
|
Agreed: last season of The Shield was amazingly good.
Ended second season of Breaking Bad a few weeks ago. I find most of that show hilariously absurd.
|
|
OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 02:49 PM |
|
|
|
While I wasn't a huge fan of The Shield, the ending was perfect.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 02:53 PM |
|
|
What are those scientific inaccuracies?
BB keeps getting better and better btw, I wouldn't advise anyone to stop at season 2.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 04:35 PM |
|
|
I don't.
Our watching habits differ, since we don't like watching an endless number of episodes of the same stuff.
We have a couple of shows, that we watch "at the same time" (like our own TV program), and we like to switch. For example, when we finished BB2, that "program slot" was taken by Dexter 3. Dexter 3 having finished (one episode missing), that slot might very well be filled by BB 3.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 26, 2013 05:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I haven't read the books yet but the impression I garnered from the show is that Theon pretty clearly has the type of personality where he tries too hard to prove his value to everybody around him (I'm sure we've all known somebody like that). So when he shows up again at Pyke to negotiate and his biological family ends up dissing him, in a paradoxical sort of way, their scorn is precisely what makes him crazed to try to show his family that he is indeed a worthy Greyjoy.
I on the other hand haven't watched the series post season 1 but that's a pretty good description of Theon from the books. He's not really a villain, more like a half-spoiled brat who tries to prove to everybody how big cock he has. In the end, the things that Martin has decided to do to him after a certain moment are quite a purgatory for his character.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
