|
| Thread: Heroes 6 strategy: Playing Necropolis faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
|
posted October 23, 2011 08:39 AM |
|
|
Quote:
on the brighter side:
week one army (7 skeletons/13ghousts/5ghouls) from the first 2 heroes with agony/regeneration/pressed attack - killed 8 kirin dragons for me (lost the ghouls.... op?)
so, if creeping is important - use agony, use regeneration, use pressed attack 
Should be noted that you can't get pressed attack until level 5  so early creeping just agony/regen until then. One random thing I think makes no sense is that necro magic heroes start w/ 1 more magic power than any other hero in the game.
|
|
Fiona
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 24, 2011 11:03 AM |
|
|
Well, I just finished the first map of the Necro campaign. Early on I used a creep strategy based on enlightenment, life drain (on ghouls as tanks), and a liberal use of the necromancer ability. Then later, I added storm of arrows with the skeletons, lightning bolt, and agony. I didn’t use the “ghost box” mentioned above except for some “very special” fights  - however, I had tactics in reserve already when I did need to and was glad of the good advice posted above (thanks!). As Evinin noted above, the hardest battle strategies were castle/fort sieges, which were the only place I lost any troops, but staying on the magic and Necro ability minimized losses. Does anybody know if there is a way (ability I missed?) to eventually have more control over the siege catapult?
The thing is, I could only win after getting to know the map thoroughly by getting my stuffing handed to me on a plate by the AI a couple of times. This happened not because the AI played better than I did (though I was happily surprised by how well it did manage small strategic decisions), but because I explored the map in a way that I would have done playing any previous iteration of Heroes (I’ve been a convert since Heroes II). The second time I lost I actually managed to take everything but the last castle even though I had again taken the time to stop at adventure buildings and the like but the last AI castle just kept magically adding increasing numbers to their stacks and I was obviously on an exponential curve that lead only to my destruction (which it did when I tried to take that last castle finally).
When I won the third time it was because I rushed to the exit, so to speak, sacking AI castles fast, and stopping only for XP, some resources, artifacts, quests, and all AI forts and barracks. Since it seemed like rush was the way to go I had also grabbed logistics and had one secondary hero to pick up stuff that I didn’t need to get with Anastasya.
It’s a little weird, this losing to huge, cheating AI but getting to check out the beautiful map, in preparation for a no-stops run for the endgame victory. If the skirmish maps all play this way too it might limit single-player appeal for me a little after awhile.
Still – an awesome game, really. Great strategic depth on many levels and beautiful graphics done just the way I would have wanted as detailed fantasy and not the WoW cartoon style of Heroes 5. Best campaign story of any Heroes game to date.
____________
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted October 24, 2011 11:48 AM |
|
|
Fiona, on what difficulty level did you play? I played through the campaign on the default settings, but I didn't have the problems you're describing. And like you, I like to visit every little crook and nanny to find resources and artifacts, visit every statbooster location and fight all the critters on the map. Truth be said, I did always play for minimum casualties on my side, replaying battles if my losses were higher than I think was necessary (like when I made a mistake somewhere in the battle).
Actually, I think siege battles are easier than open field battles. On the default difficulty setting, the AI seems to like holing up his melee troops behind the castle walls - which means they're no threat to me, while in open field battles, he quickly advances them forward. This hiding behind the castle walls enables me to focus fully on taking out his ranged attackers, which I then do with spells and ranged attackers of my own. If he decides to break out, the enemy melee are channeled through his gate and that's a bottle neck that you can use to hammer his stacks one by one as they come out, with all of your own melee troops, possibly supported by your ranged troops. It's especially nice if it's a Large creature, because that one blocks the gate all by itself.
Lastly, make sure you have the following spells available:
- Vampirism (only against the living);
- Mass Vampirism (only against the living);
- Regeneration;
- Mass Regeneration;
- Make liberal use of Necrotic Strike, especially when an enemy stack is nearly dieing. When it dies while under the influence of Necrotic Strike, it will severly boost your Necrotic Energy, allowing you to raise more Undead with your Necromancy ability;
One thing I did notice on that first map is that the enemy AI has access to all three Haven Elite creatures, besides bunches of his Core creatures, while you only have access to your Core creatures. That's quite an imbalance, but at least your Core creatures can handle them pretty well if you compare the different creature tiers to previous HoMM titles.
|
|
Fiona
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 24, 2011 10:17 PM |
|
|
Maurice,
That's right - I was using regen as well, I forgot to mention that one. Very nice backup healing spell. What is "Necrotic Strike"? That one I don't know yet.
I was playing on normal - like I said, at one point I had everything on the map and still the last castle was completely unwinnable, so I experimented and clicked through for maybe 5 months to text the situation. I had much bigger troops, of course, but so did the last castle and it was still unbeatable. For me, this verifies that there is some sort of AI "cheat" built in that presses the time issue.
Yes, the siege battles are bugged, in that the AI rarely brings melee out and lets your range pick them off, but on my playthrough I was trying not to lose any troops, since the growth curve had seemed so imbalanced on my other two playthroughs, and I definitely lost a few more (read: any) on seige than in open battles where early creeping strategies worked perfectly.
I also hadn't built upper level buff structures in my castles - any thoughts on the usefullness of those in Necro castle, you'all?
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted October 24, 2011 10:42 PM |
|
Edited by Maurice at 22:44, 24 Oct 2011.
|
Well, I'd advise to build out your Towns as much as possible. Resources shouldn't be an issue, once you start to conquer a fair chunk of the map, so build everything up. Keep in mind that every creature generator in any town or barracks will add to your growth. Upgraded creature dwellings in your towns grant even more growth, as well as higher level fortifications in any of your towns. If you do end up losing troops, try and build that structure which allows you to re-recruit your casualties, albeit at a higher cost. However, I can't remember if you could already build it on the first map, maybe it was only on subsequent maps.
With the Necrotic Strike I mean the Hero's main strike ability. It puts some sort of a curse on the unit being hit with it, which in turn replenishes your Necromancy energy faster on subsequent hits. If the affected stack dies, you get like 80 Necromancy energy at once; that's like half a bar or something.
|
|
bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2011 07:11 AM |
|
|
Quote:
was playing on normal - like I said, at one point I had everything on the map and still the last castle was completely unwinnable, so I experimented and clicked through for maybe 5 months to text the situation. I had much bigger troops, of course, but so did the last castle and it was still unbeatable. For me, this verifies that there is some sort of AI "cheat" built in that presses the time issue.
There's a unzip utility for the .orc files now.. which allows you to look at the game's original maps in the editor. If you look at the campaign maps, the vast majority have a recurring trigger that adds troops to the AI's castles. Really it's a good idea to prevent the player from just turtling forever until he outgrows, which takes no "skill", but the effect may be overtuned.
|
|
forest001
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 25, 2011 11:29 AM |
|
|
Quote:
There's a unzip utility for the .orc files now.. which allows you to look at the game's original maps in the editor. If you look at the campaign maps, the vast majority have a recurring trigger that adds troops to the AI's castles. Really it's a good idea to prevent the player from just turtling forever until he outgrows, which takes no "skill", but the effect may be overtuned.
it's not overtuned... you can just mow down that castle with minimal looses... at least on normal, beside i found the next battle more annoying due to all the dispells
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 09:08 AM |
|
|
Quote:
The 3 abilities give nothing for creeping or get-going
- when the map is 'empty' - no need for logistics
- getting 25% more exp. is important, getting something to actually kill the creeps for the 100% exp., is kinda *more* important
- path finding works only with rough terrain - so apply where and if needed
on the brighter side:
week one army (7 skeletons/13ghousts/5ghouls) from the first 2 heroes with agony/regeneration/pressed attack - killed 8 kirin dragons for me (lost the ghouls.... op?)
so, if creeping is important - use agony, use regeneration, use pressed attack
Yes, I agree but was refering to the campaigns more where you should get Enlight, log, path find right away....
Multiplayer maps (esp bridge to far) these skills are worthless!
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 09:54 AM |
|
|
|
Even with getting only gold from the chests I collected so far, I never needed to have Enlightenment to hit the level cap on any of the campaign missions, to be honest. I consider it a less useful talent, to put it mildly. Yes, it may level your Hero faster, but what use is that if you then spend a lot of time at the level cap? Another talent might have been more useful then, since it remains "active" the entire time.
|
|
xlnt
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 11:50 AM |
|
|
pressed attack is lvl 5 - good catch there
i don't think single play is a concern - i usually pick the worst skills to make it funny and i only play it on easiest and with auto battles and so on - just for the story. Beating AI is not fun imo.
Necro being OP and all - i tried to do 2 main heroes - both use kinda the same skills and each does battles with 7 skeletons and 8 ghosts (starting army - pick Luna for 2nd). This way it is even more ridicules Agony + regen kills everything and 2 heroes should always find 7 crystal for liches on week one.
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 11:50 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Even with getting only gold from the chests I collected so far, I never needed to have Enlightenment to hit the level cap on any of the campaign missions, to be honest. I consider it a less useful talent, to put it mildly. Yes, it may level your Hero faster, but what use is that if you then spend a lot of time at the level cap? Another talent might have been more useful then, since it remains "active" the entire time.
In some campaigns it is difficult to reach level cap even having covered the whole map.....
|
|
akaihane77
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 03:27 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Even with getting only gold from the chests I collected so far, I never needed to have Enlightenment to hit the level cap on any of the campaign missions, to be honest. I consider it a less useful talent, to put it mildly. Yes, it may level your Hero faster, but what use is that if you then spend a lot of time at the level cap? Another talent might have been more useful then, since it remains "active" the entire time.
In some campaigns it is difficult to reach level cap even having covered the whole map.....
It actually depends on the difficulty i guess. I play hard and in all missions i've played so far , I cap after finishing around 50% of the map.
____________
|
|
rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 03:56 PM |
|
Edited by rpgguy at 15:57, 26 Oct 2011.
|
The ghost wall trick works with vampires as well - when they defend they take no damage at all and when they retaliate they heal themselves + they have the 2nd highest hp, pretty nice tanks.
And you can also give them a huge boost with the right hero ( +10 attack/defense )
____________
Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
|
|
MasterSunTzu
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 26, 2011 04:56 PM |
|
|
I think Necromancy ROCKS. I have more means than I ever had to resurrect troops: racial gauge, hero's life drain spell, mass life drain spell, and ghosts' heal ability. Multiple stacks of ghosts give me even more times to resurrect. At every turn, I could have multiple chances to heal troops. Sometimes I keep an enemy troop alive just so my creatures can beat them up some more and heal themselves. I never had this easy a time at resurrection in older games. I wonder if it's too much of a good thing. I'm at Necromancy II with only level 1-3 creatures, and I can't imagine what it would be like at Necromancy IV when I can resurrect a 3x3 area!
The key for me is DON'T SPLIT UP TROOPS when you don't have to. Every troop uses up a resurrection every time, so keep the number of troops to a minimum.
Regarding protecting skeletons with friendly creatures surrounding it, I'm a little wary of that because marksmen can shoot through multiple layers of troops, and also griffin's "driving attack" can still melee attack anywhere even if your skeletons can't normally be attacked with melee.
|
|
Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 10:25 AM |
|
Edited by Momo at 11:23, 27 Oct 2011.
|
You actually have yet three other ways to resurrect, vampire's bloodsucking attack and lich's "bond" with other troops, then Call of the Netherworld for blood heroes. The whole resurrection theme is quite stressed in H6's necro.
EDIT: and then, altar of eternal servitude. And probably other ways to limit or recover losses that don't come on top of my mind.
|
|
rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 11:34 AM |
|
|
Quote:
You actually have yet three other ways to resurrect, vampire's bloodsucking attack and lich's "bond" with other troops, then Call of the Netherworld for blood heroes. The whole resurrection theme is quite stressed in H6's necro.
EDIT: and then, altar of eternal servitude. And probably other ways to limit or recover losses that don't come on top of my mind.
Another way is to play the might hero - he passively gives drain life to all units.
____________
Week Of The Rabbit
Triple Growth For All Creatures
|
|
SkeletonJo
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 11:47 AM |
|
|
Okay, necro creeping is disgustingly powerful. I just played a test game against AI, here's how it went.
Week 1:
-Main hero is magic hero with enlightenment trait.
-Build tavern, hire 2nd magic hero with ghosts
-Transfer most ghosts to 1st hero, keep 3 ghosts and skeletons on 2nd hero
-Take tactics with both heroes
-Clear wood/ore with 2nd hero, immediately go for crystal mine or other high-value targets with 1st hero. Take regeneration at level 2.
With 16 ghosts, tactics and regeneration, I was able to take out everything with ease, especially big walkers. Just sat ghosts in a corner defending, regeneration as needed, and hero attack the enemy.
2nd hero walled in the skeletons and defended with ghosts.
On day 4 or something, I took out 4 of the champion spider units with 1st hero. A few days later I take out 30 liches.
Build vampire and ghost dwellings before end of the week.
Week 2: Hire new magic hero, upgrade vampires, put all vampires on that hero. Take regeneration.
Hire another hero. Put all new ghosts on that hero. Take tactics and regeneration.
Give a few more ghosts and all skeletons to 2nd hero.
By this time the 1st hero is pushing into enemy territory grabbing anything worthwhile on the way.
So by week 2, I have these 4 heroes:
1.Ghosts w/tactics, regeneration, earth power, magic affinity
2.Skeletons/ghost shields w/tactics, regeneration
3.Vampire lords w/regeneration
4.Ghosts w/tactics and regeneration
Which meant I could basically spread across the map and clear it in no time. EACH of these heroes is able to take out very powerful creeps of almost all types. #3 especially is basically immune to big walkers and can take huge stacks of them because if you put vamps in a corner, only 1 big walker can attack it at a time, which will always miss thanks to vampire special.
Basically as long as you can outheal the creep damage with regeneration, you just have to whittle the creeps down with hero attacks. You can probably do similar things with other factions. The only time I even took losses was against an arena army with several powerful shooters (killed my ghosts before I could do anything).
I feel dirty.
____________
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 12:57 PM |
|
|
|
@SkeletonJo -> Very nice for creeping but might be spreading the experience between your 4 heroes too thinly. H6 is focused on having one main hero that builds up all experience while the others run around collecting....
|
|
Lokheit
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 04:47 PM |
|
|
One question:
If you're supposed to be able to reset your skill points (maybe I'm wrong), why all the "don't take enlightment" comments?
You could use it to level up until you reach the cap or are close to it and then reset your skills and take another one. Maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't work this way.
|
|
Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 27, 2011 06:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
One question:
If you're supposed to be able to reset your skill points (maybe I'm wrong), why all the "don't take enlightment" comments?
You could use it to level up until you reach the cap or are close to it and then reset your skills and take another one. Maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't work this way.
The main point is that the first levels are the most importants. Having (i.e.) mass regen or not ASAP makes a difference indeed, a huge one. Staying one step behind in the "now" only to get more levels in a very, very long run is risky and it doesn't really matter what you do once you have many ability points (you surely don't have to re-specialize just because you took enlightenment and you don't want it anymore, you had plenty levels to get the other important spells). The earlier choices matter much more, hence taking enlightenment for starters can easily be inefficient.
|
| |
|
|
