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| Thread: No simultaneous turns ?!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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lordmichal
Known Hero
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posted October 20, 2011 10:44 PM |
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Poll Question:
No simultaneous turns ?!!
Anyone can confirm that In H6 you canīt play with simultaneous turns?
If it is true, I regret my money, which I have spent on this game.
LM
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 20, 2011 10:58 PM |
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HoMM was always turn based, but I know russian tried to implement simultaneous turns in H3. Personally I can't imagine how this will work, so while you think at a strategy with your main, he can be attacked because the other player is faster? Would be a disaster.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 20, 2011 10:59 PM |
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Eh, it worked pretty well in H5 didn't it?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2011 11:13 PM |
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Almost 100% probability simultaneous turns will appear in patch or with first addon.
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 21, 2011 01:46 AM |
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I hope so, otherwise I will only play speeddeamon 
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 06:34 AM |
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Quote:
Almost 100% probability simultaneous turns will appear in patch or with first addon.
Hopefully. (Slightly more important actually is them combining the servers or making it an option to browse the diff servers.) But just in case, when I first heard that simultaneous turns weren't available and I got a decent grasp of the game I started on an MP map to partially solve the boredom when it's not your turn. Inc wall of text, read at your own risk.
The core concept of the map is that the opponent controls all the neutral armies on your side of the map and vice versa.. creating a completely different HoMM MP experience. These stacks cannot move and act exactly the same as neutral armies except when the other player attacks.. you get to control them and take out as much of his army as you can. This means -most- exploits aka "combat strategies" (e.g. sending a stack of 1 ghoul as necro to 1 side to get killed/rez/killed/rez while other stacks kill) won't work because a human is controlling the creatures you're fighting. This should make things 100x less dull even once sim-turns are enabled.
Can create some interesting fights knowing that the human will actually use the creatures' skills effectively unlike AI. One of the fights is 2 stacks of coral priestesses with 4 stacks of 2 mermaids thrown in. Attacking player needs to consider that the mermaids will be using tidal wave in succession and priestesses can not only shoot but also cross-heal so if he is walker-heavy he could suffer many more losses than anticipated if he goes in without a plan. But there are also stacks you have to fight which will punish a shooter-heavy army. Some stacks will do heavy magic dmg, some heavy might. So map (hopefully) encourages balanced-play and more thought than normal.
You also get a comatorium (same thing as fog of darkness thing back in h3) in your starting area which will hide your castle and immediate area once neutrals are killed. The question is .. when the opponent can see HOW you are killing all these monsters, will you have anything left in your bag of tricks once you face his hero? How will you plan to counter his army setup knowing what you know? Some scout wars are encouraged if you want to get maximum crystal--> faster elite/champions, creating a decision - how much army to send to the shared crystal area in middle, and how much to devote to killing neutrals and getting gold/artys/exp? This is the main part of the map that will need to be adjusted I think, because striking that balance w/out playtest is probably impossible. You also get 500 gold per killed neutral since you start w/ 2 external halls of raiders (could adjust the # of halls you start with if this amount ends up being too low/high). So being aggressive is rewarded in a few ways. For now I have town portal + arty merchant disabled in all towns to reduce luck factor on map(there are a lot of artys on the map but they are specific and not random, and the same on both sides. I put 2 diff sets of artys which share the same char slots so you have to choose which artys to wear). I think random artys shouldn't exist on H6 MP maps (unless random minor maybe) because some are so much stronger than others.
Anyway, map is mostly done, just need another night or two of working on it and then it needs to be play-tested. I found a way to mirror the map in the editor which saves tons of time. Can share if ppl are curious.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted October 21, 2011 07:40 AM |
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Quote:
Almost 100% probability simultaneous turns will appear in patch or with first addon.
I doubt it. Sim turns is not a feature that could be just added later on. It requires many architectural and system decisions to be taken during development. If Ubihole didn't consider it yet, they may need to rewrite half of engine just to handle it. Not likely to happen, considering the number of bugs we've seen so far.
Quote:
I know russian tried to implement simultaneous turns in H3
Impossible. Again, this is much harder than just adding a few towns to the game. It requires deep changes in engine core and synchronization of all mechanics in existence. Not likely to happen since developers can only edit executable or add external .dlls
Quote:
The core concept of the map is that the opponent controls all the neutral armies on your side of the map and vice versa
It worked fine in H5 ToH maps. Each player was given a number of garrisons with useful units which blocked path at critical points. Very enjoyable both for attacker and defender.
Still, forcing players to lead every pack of poor creeps may be tedious.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 07:59 AM |
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Quote:
I doubt it. Sim turns is not a feature that could be just added later on.
Elvin have access to vip forum and he mentioned in couple of topics, simultaneous turns will be implemented soon.
Russian funs was on meeting with producer of H6 in restaurant in Moskow , producer said his top priority now is - random map generator, simultaneous turns and town screens.
Future will show ho is right, me or you ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted October 21, 2011 08:08 AM |
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 08:59 AM |
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Quote:
It worked fine in H5 ToH maps. Each player was given a number of garrisons with useful units which blocked path at critical points. Very enjoyable both for attacker and defender.
Still, forcing players to lead every pack of poor creeps may be tedious.
Was gone in h5, didn't know anyone had done it. Not surprising tho, only thing holding it back in h4 was creatures could move w/out hero so a little trickier to do such a thing. Then again, from what I've read h5 MP was a pretty big flop so idk how many people have actually been exposed to it in the scope of HoMM and been able to enjoy it properly.
It will be easy to release a normal version of the map along w/ the player-controlled creatures version if you prefer to creep against AI.
p.s. any others bought game off steam and want to play MP sometime? or from US/euro and want to see if we're on same server?
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted October 21, 2011 10:22 AM |
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Quote:
Anyway, map is mostly done, just need another night or two of working on it and then it needs to be play-tested. I found a way to mirror the map in the editor which saves tons of time. Can share if ppl are curious.
Can you share with us how you did that ?
and bluecamel I like to playtest your map whenever its ready
(also I was 1 of the guys back in H5 days who made maps with usercontrolled garrisons, made an nice twist to the game imo....)
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 11:22 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, map is mostly done, just need another night or two of working on it and then it needs to be play-tested. I found a way to mirror the map in the editor which saves tons of time. Can share if ppl are curious.
Can you share with us how you did that ?
and bluecamel I like to playtest your map whenever its ready
(also I was 1 of the guys back in H5 days who made maps with usercontrolled garrisons, made an nice twist to the game imo....)
Yeah, user-controlled monsters is such a good idea, I should have known someone thought of it before me 
I would actually love for you to test it or anyone else who wants to.. since next several days I don't have as much time (gf aggro  ); will msg you when it's ready.
So I don't know if blackhole intended for it to be used on this big of a scale or not, but they made a tool that lets you rotate whatever is on your copy+paste.
Before you make the map, find the center and put something there so you know what mid is (kind of obvious but worth mentioning). It shows coords on bottom left whereever your mouse is hovering.
Hit spacebar to get your selection tool and have the first dropdown menu on 3rd tab opened (Unit selection). Select everything you can on the screen, then press middle mouse button down to scroll some more, hold shift and select the next screenfull, etc. until entire side of map is selected. Then ctrl+c.
On my map I want it to be a simple vertical mirror (b | d) so I just hit Mirror vertical and paste. Surprisingly, moving that much around w/ your pointer doesn't lag the editor like you'd think it would. You can also mirror horizontally as you can see or if you want a diagonal mirror you can just hit Rotate Left or Right twice. Can play around w/ whether or not you want to rotate the facing too. Cheers.
Oh yah, they released a starter guide for the editor.. it's pretty helpful since some of the stuff (such as the need to set victory/defeat conditions in the triggers, need to put combat paint on entire map or battles will not work(!)) you probably wouldn't realize.
http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/gamesites/mightandmagic/heroes6/download/Heroes6_Editor_Quickstart_Guide.pdf
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted October 21, 2011 12:40 PM |
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Thank you for your reply bluecamel good to see that the copy/paste/=mirror was so easy (I really misssed that in H5 grrr)...
I've opened the editor just once so far and didnt had a clue what to do.... I found the quick guide yesterday so I'll start reading that first I guess.....
(I like to play the game "alot" before I start making maps....)
Better understanding = better maps imo....
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lordmichal
Known Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 01:06 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I doubt it. Sim turns is not a feature that could be just added later on.
Elvin have access to vip forum and he mentioned in couple of topics, simultaneous turns will be implemented soon.
Russian funs was on meeting with producer of H6 in restaurant in Moskow , producer said his top priority now is - random map generator, simultaneous turns and town screens.
Future will show ho is right, me or you ...
Hope you are right man! I will not start playing league otherwise, would be too much time-consuming. It worked in H5 and if someone didnt like it, he could switch that off anytime.
Thx for informations
LM
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 21, 2011 01:15 PM |
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Quote:
Impossible. Again, this is much harder than just adding a few towns to the game. It requires deep changes in engine core and synchronization of all mechanics in existence. Not likely to happen since developers can only edit executable or add external .dlls
asm has done some steps towards simultaneous turns implementation, I don't know how far he managed to go though.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted October 23, 2011 01:06 AM |
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So far only playing duels. And it's fun, but full game is more dull atm. Sim turns asap. Also add skill levels beyond 3. To enrich game. Can't forgive racials. How pale necro and barb are comparing to the their bretheran from H5. Work on racial, as a first decision for expansion. Or, al least, give a decent racial to the new races. For map play, fastest leveling is the only option. Everything else is pointless torture. But duels are great. Did I mention that? Good thing statistic is off But I still enjoy it. That is an idea, right But TOH seems emptier. Not a welcome change. Gloomy winds sweeps throw digital hall of time. Still, I hope people are playing single play more. Maybe is too early.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 23, 2011 03:42 AM |
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it is too early for multi right now, I havent even reset the ranks for the new season yet. I'm still on the 2nd campaign, and haven't played any maps except for broken alliance.
I'll make the official announcement that toh is open for multi gaming once I've reset, added vet icons, and added all the current ubi maps available.
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 23, 2011 06:21 AM |
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Quote:
it is too early for multi right now, I havent even reset the ranks for the new season yet. I'm still on the 2nd campaign, and haven't played any maps except for broken alliance.
I'll make the official announcement that toh is open for multi gaming once I've reset, added vet icons, and added all the current ubi maps available.
Most of the Ubi maps are really awful for MP, need to be adjusted for TOH. This is hard to do because no one (to my knowledge) has figured out how to extract them from the .orc file yet. Even tho it's hard to make a perfect map yet because it's so early and one can't have perfect understanding of game, I think it's good that we make a few so that we have something decent to play on.
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 23, 2011 06:23 AM |
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speaking of duels, what factions/hero specs has everyone had the most success with in duels?
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted October 23, 2011 03:03 PM |
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Quote:
speaking of duels, what factions/hero specs has everyone had the most success with in duels?
It's hard to tell. I got impression that more important is to choose right race taking in consideration what your opponent has already chosen, then anything else. And since there is no option for having random race, this is a big problem in duels.
But generally I would recommend:
necro turtle formation with 2 stacks of ghosts (might or magic depending on the other side, say if its orcs you always go might,...)
confessor with 2 stack of glories is always a safe bet, but extra boring.
demonist with 2 stack of lillims is great fun and pretty good against the other side turtle.
War master is definitely a favorite, great fun and some excellent combos.
Can't say for orcs, played very little with them, but got trashed badly few times with warmonger.
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