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| Thread: Which is the best Champion creature? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 08, 2011 02:07 PM |
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It was not in Heroes 2. What I ment that after Heroes 2 they introduced it because shooters were pretty imba in H2.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 02:18 PM |
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Hm? Breeders full range? Not that I know of.
I think they want to give them No Melee Penalty, which makes a lot more sense, given their size.
I don't think, they introduced range in 3 because shooters were imba in H2 - because they were not in the actual game. What was imba instead, were - no Tactics - present - the FLIERS, who were, for some unfathomable reason, able to move as many hexes as they liked (if not slowed (!)), making shooters extremely vulnerable against Gargoyles (and to a lesser extent all fliers).
Reducing fliers to their actual MA WOULD HAVE made full range shooters way roo powerful, so they reacted.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 02:22 PM |
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Quote:
Hm? Breeders full range? Not that I know of.
I think they want to give them No Melee Penalty, which makes a lot more sense, given their size.
I don't think, they introduced range in 3 because shooters were imba in H2 - because they were not in the actual game. What was imba instead, were - no Tactics - present - the FLIERS, who were, for some unfathomable reason, able to move as many hexes as they liked (if not slowed (!)), making shooters extremely vulnerable against Gargoyles (and to a lesser extent all fliers).
Reducing fliers to their actual MA WOULD HAVE made full range shooters way roo powerful, so they reacted.
+1.
Was going to say that. Shooters were NEVER imba in H2 considering the number of fliers there. Also Fliers could reach anyone in one turn - any speed they had (average to ultra fast).
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 09, 2011 02:39 AM |
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So they are going to give Breeders full range. Wasn't that like the last ranged unit that didn't have full range? For some reason it seems to me that the problem was not Breeders having half range, but pretty much all other ranged units having full range. I found there was a good reason why range penalty got introduced since Heroes 2, but apparantly they forgot about that.
Skeleton and Goblins are both also half range, though no one's really arguing for full range Breeder , more that if they're going to be half range, they're utility should be much more useful than it is right now since they're obviously not going to dish out damage at the same rate as the other shooters. At this point though, is anyone going to realistically argue that Mana Leech is more useful than say... Yuki Onna's ice ground of doom? or Centar's ability to basically never get blocked?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted December 09, 2011 07:59 AM |
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There have been these ideas about extra damage for the breeder if the enemy has a spell effect on it. This is an Idea I liked and had in mind my self. Also reducing liches and other shooters to half would be a good idea. For Chaos-sake they do not have to worry about ammo any more. That is a boost by itself.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 09, 2011 08:16 AM |
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Quote:
Hm? Breeders full range? Not that I know of.
I think they want to give them No Melee Penalty, which makes a lot more sense, given their size.
I don't think, they introduced range in 3 because shooters were imba in H2 - because they were not in the actual game. What was imba instead, were - no Tactics - present - the FLIERS, who were, for some unfathomable reason, able to move as many hexes as they liked (if not slowed (!)), making shooters extremely vulnerable against Gargoyles (and to a lesser extent all fliers).
Reducing fliers to their actual MA WOULD HAVE made full range shooters way roo powerful, so they reacted.
Don't miss the point by hanging yourself on one word. They may not be imba as in making the game unplayable, but in a shooter vs. walker duel, they were pretty one-sided. And yes, Flyers partially balanced it out by their infinite movement, but they don't have that anymore, which is just another reason why giving (almost) all the shooters full range is a bad idea.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2011 09:08 AM |
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Edited by Fauch at 09:10, 09 Dec 2011.
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well, don't forget the knight had no flyer and only one archer. it's not because counters exists that you have access to them.
actually it seems flying units got slower in H6? they seem to not have the advantage anymore in mobility??
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RollingWave
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 09, 2011 06:32 PM |
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well, don't forget the knight had no flyer and only one archer. it's not because counters exists that you have access to them.
actually it seems flying units got slower in H6? they seem to not have the advantage anymore in mobility??
that is correct, the furthest moving units are Kirin (though soon to be nerfed), though Pitlord still move very far too .
The most amusing is the Vampire Lord, if you cast slow on it it's basically useless.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted December 10, 2011 07:20 AM |
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Nerfing kirin movement is the best nerf to do with kirin, nerfing its abilities will destroy the purpose of the unit.
Pit lord movement is fine, nerfing him will nerf inferno as a whole, even if breeder is buffed, inferno still have a hard time, unless there is a buff to cerberus initiative, and increase of 5 is good imo.
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httassadar
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 13, 2011 12:36 PM |
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Hands up with normal melee. I just cannot understand why they made so many no-range-penalty shooters and Succubus a flying shooter, why!!
Breeder IMO should act like StarCraft 2 broodlord. The little thingamy they spit out stays on the battlefield for 1/2 turns, blocking path and shooters, and can do some minor damage.
Quote:
Hm? Breeders full range? Not that I know of.
I think they want to give them No Melee Penalty, which makes a lot more sense, given their size.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2011 04:43 PM |
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Funny, that's what i originally thought about breeder, i never thought it as ranged unit, i thought it act as a unit that spawn unit, it cannot attack, it use the spawned unit to attack.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 15, 2011 06:28 PM |
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They should have introduced a 25% range penalty as an option for some units in like... Heroes 3. You jump from full range to half range and you have a huge difference to make up for.
Since mana leech doesn't work on melee attacks, as the vague description would suggest, offering full melee damage would be a great way to add some more value to the breeders. It seems like that's what they intended all along, since they gave breeders those long, sexy tentacle things.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2011 01:55 PM |
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I agree, i'm with giving breeder no melee penalty and mana leech on both melee and ranged attack, i don't mind half range, also give the game an option to use melee attack in ranged units which the game currently lacks. If you ask why? the answer is simple, breeder is very tanky, easily blocked (so that means no ranged attack), better use it as retaliation soaker, it also has high initiative.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted December 17, 2011 02:31 PM |
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I agree, i'm with giving breeder no melee penalty and mana leech on both melee and ranged attack, i don't mind half range, also give the game an option to use melee attack in ranged units which the game currently lacks. If you ask why? the answer is simple, breeder is very tanky, easily blocked (so that means no ranged attack), better use it as retaliation soaker, it also has high initiative.
This option is in the game already, its just not highlited. Just press Alt when your shooter is on turn and he will have the option to use melee
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted December 18, 2011 05:05 AM |
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Lol, dumb me, it's the same as HoMM 5 then. This is good, that breeder has more use.
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