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| Thread: Healing spells are op? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 05, 2011 07:09 PM |
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Quote:
In H5ToTE, presence or absence of regen spell in mage guild can make a huge difference in creeping difficulty...there's even maps where they give you regen spell at start to make chances more equal.
That's why they made regen spell available for everyone in H6 so everyone can be equally good (well fan manual says every faction has access to earth magic)
And how do you think things would have looked in H5 if some factions had access to Resurrection at level 1?
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What will happen now?
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2011 07:10 PM |
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You asked if healing units are way better then other units. I gave you example of a core unit (furies actually) that is as valuable if not more then a healing unit. Having not so big stack of furies allow you win very many fights with minimal/no losses plus they are awesome units in final fight they have ton of mobility damage initiative and hit points.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted November 05, 2011 07:41 PM |
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@alcibiades: H5 creeping with regen is better than creeping with resurrection! [esp conserving lvl 6-7 units eg. knight with lower spellpower & knowledge conserving cavaliers/pallys]
Can you heal in H6 as much as resurrection in H5?
Is heal spell really that much better than regen in H6?
Anyway, H6 only inferno & necro has no access to light.
@feluniobunioz:  no wonder why, I thought you meant harpies.
well if there are better creature abilities than heal, then maybe it's not too bad... like you said may be more about balance of creature abilities or racial balance like gating?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 05, 2011 09:26 PM |
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Healing stacks definitely don't outshine all the other core units. Stronghold has no healers, but upgraded harpies and dreamwalkers both have excellent creeping capabilities that put them right up to par with Sanctuary and Haven on creeping... once you get past the very beginning of the game I actually think Stronghold might be the best creeping faction except for Noobopolis.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 05, 2011 10:10 PM |
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The creature healing abilities are fine.
The main problem here is that in the early game, many factions are to dependant on the healing spells, which means less choice.
This is what I would do:
* Heal, Regeneration and Life Drain are changed to Lv15 spells.
The power of Heal and Regenration is increased by 20%.
* The power of Necropolis Necromancy is reduced by 20%.
The damage reduction of Spirit creatures is reduced from 50% to 25%. The health of Necropolis creatures is reduced.
* The Might Attack of Hellhounds and Cerberi is reduced, but their health and might defense is increased.
The goal is to move away from the "lol zero casualties while creeping" playstyle.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Insanity
Known Hero
Brain cells killa
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posted November 05, 2011 11:43 PM |
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didnt play inferno yet, r they the only guys who cant heal ?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 06, 2011 03:37 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 03:38, 06 Nov 2011.
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they can heal with regeneration, and prevent damage with reinforcements
but their Hellhounds are to dependant on OP (in early game) spells like Life Drain
otherwise like 10 to 50 hellhounds die every turn 
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 07, 2011 07:04 AM |
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Quote:
This is what I would do:
* Heal, Regeneration and Life Drain are changed to Lv15 spells.
The power of Heal and Regenration is increased by 20%.
I am not sure about this....I liked what feluniozbunio mentioned previously, about healing spells being good for early game and not late game, there are better spells to use end game, plus when you have high stack sizes, healing doesn't really matter anymore....
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted November 07, 2011 08:17 AM |
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I think healing spells are ok. The problem is that factions have also efficient healers among their core units, so they can heal everything and win full-contact battle with no loses.
I remember some years ago you needed careful unit placement and tactics to succeed. Now it's just brainless rush, same as in modern shooters with regenerating player characters. Because thinking is considered too difficult.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 07, 2011 08:51 AM |
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Do all healing units have ressurection abilities, or is that just the Sistals (or was that only in the demo?)
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted November 07, 2011 10:33 AM |
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Quote:
The creature healing abilities are fine.
The main problem here is that in the early game, many factions are to dependant on the healing spells, which means less choice.
This is what I would do:
* Heal, Regeneration and Life Drain are changed to Lv15 spells.
The power of Heal and Regenration is increased by 20%.
* The power of Necropolis Necromancy is reduced by 20%.
The damage reduction of Spirit creatures is reduced from 50% to 25%. The health of Necropolis creatures is reduced.
* The Might Attack of Hellhounds and Cerberi is reduced, but their health and might defense is increased.
The goal is to move away from the "lol zero casualties while creeping" playstyle.
I think this is a great idea, but I would change it to a level 10 requirement. Or maybe 12, if possible.
Healing is relied upon too much early on in the game, and Inferno's casualty rate early on is disgraceful. I'm looking forward to them balancing out the factions, and think Xerox' adjustments would definitely help.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2011 10:45 AM |
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Quote:
Do all healing units have ressurection abilities, or is that just the Sistals (or was that only in the demo?)
Yep they do. Any heal (direct or over time) in the game also resurrects.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 07, 2011 11:08 AM |
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Really? That's... messed up 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 07, 2011 11:19 AM |
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healing that doesn't resurrect is extremely useless, on the other hand. Except when it works like in HoMM3 where it dispelled debuffs.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 07, 2011 11:23 AM |
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Yeah, it was like in H5 getting "raise dead" when you were a faction other than necro, useless!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 07, 2011 11:28 AM |
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H2 also had 'Cure' albeit with reversed priorities.
Nevertheless, I don't like that core units receive such powerful abilities.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 07, 2011 12:33 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 12:34, 07 Nov 2011.
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Quote:
Nevertheless, I don't like that core units receive such powerful abilities.
They can only use it twice, though. And the strength depends on the stacksize as well, so splitting them up over multiple stacks to gain more healing is useless.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 07, 2011 02:08 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Nevertheless, I don't like that core units receive such powerful abilities.
They can only use it twice, though. And the strength depends on the stacksize as well, so splitting them up over multiple stacks to gain more healing is useless.
True, I suppose Orcs don't have healing abilities as goblins have the trap that works over multiple stacks and not based on stack size....
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted November 07, 2011 02:53 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Nevertheless, I don't like that core units receive such powerful abilities.
They can only use it twice, though. And the strength depends on the stacksize as well, so splitting them up over multiple stacks to gain more healing is useless.
I don't think the healing is particularly overpowered, just in the early game. The Sisters, for example, use a whole turn to heal/res only a portion of lost creatures, when their counterparts are likely dealing damage instead. Overall I think the heal / creature is balanced, it just needs tweaking in the early game. Or, it needs to be removed from the early game.
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Karanshade
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 08, 2011 09:44 PM |
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I have been reading most of this post.
I really disagree on regeneration.
It is my first spell and it allows me fast creeping.
Creeps tend to focus one unit mostly , and with regen I can ensure a perma heal.Ofc at some point I also take heal if possible for heavier loss. But still creeping with barbarian under regen is quite possible. On the other hand , I can be biaised. I played only vs AI so far , and using dynastic +3 magic def traits that makes my barb start with around 50 mana.Life drain + regen in a shooter vs shooter duel when creeping is largely enough to win with no loses. With a magic hero , stoneskin provides a great cover to physical damages , thus allowing regen to shine.And they are both earth spell. As is the wonderfull earth elem at level 15.
Also I tend to align 'one stack' when possible (especially with necro).
A little stack of ghost in the hand of a necromancer with regen+stoneskin+ lifedrain , due to its spirit form will virtually take no damages at all. of course I just retaliate with it , letting the hero and latter the earth elem to do the work (if u have sufficient mana pool which u may , using the +30 mana skill for instance).with tactics , the earth elem makes it so that only one square is accessible to attack your ghost , and if they have ranged , he can also be summoned to block them.
Anyway necros are OP so not the best example 
But in some respect , the defensive attitude using regen+life drain worked pretty well for me so far with all the factions.
I managed to clean a lot using relatively little stacks.
Again 'a contrario' to previous heroes , I didn t rush multi so I can' t talk much about it. Played only a couple of games vs necro , not a very enlightening experience.
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