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| Thread: What is the WORST faction in the game? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 06, 2011 04:15 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:17, 06 Nov 2011.
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Erm... right, too much off-topic already.
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they have a level 2 unit that sucks (it's pretty crappy in itself, and then it damages your own troops if they are in melee, lols), they have a level 4 unit which has no merits other than being able to soak up decent amounts of damage
The Gogs are tough for level 2 shooters and that comes handy during the early game - later you almost don't need them anyway. As for the Demons - they are nothing special because they can be horded which is no secret.
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they have a level 5 unit which does good damage but which is really easy to kill, and a level 6 unit about which the same is true.
The Pit Fiend is unreasonably expensive and to an extent - so is the Pit Lord, that's my only complaint about them. The Efreeti on the other hand are pretty tough considering that they are the fastest lvl 6 in the game and fry the opponents who attack them.
As for the Devil/Arch Devil - they are worth every penny that you spend on them in my opinion just because no other creature is that effective in creeping and few can compare with it in the hit-and-run department. Its only major weakness is the fact that the faster Angels/Archangels hate it. Yeah, that hurts.
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And the heroes are all but worthless
Most of them are indeed, but Ayden, Rashka and Zydar are far from worthless (+Pyre for quick games or if you need fast hero early). Besides, there is no restriction whatsoever to buy a hero from another faction in Heroes III so quite many combos are possible. This requires luck indeed though.
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it breaks the game in spades if you end up with Tazar and his astronomically-OP Armorer specialty.
And still Fortress is slow as hell on the adventure map, has no "native" access to spells above level 3 and is almost always the first to suffer from spells during battle. Tazar can make them very tough against physical attacks but they can still be killed in a few rounds by a Magic hero with fast creatures. That is why I love Fortress vs Stronghold clashes - usually it's a pure muscle fight. 
Enough about this though. In Heroes VI Inferno is at the bottom and this is obvious for almost everybody. I only wonder if the Ubihole people are taking notes.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 06, 2011 05:45 PM |
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Edit: But I must say, if there's one town the AI in heroes 3 is really really bad with, then it's Inferno. It never seem to hoard demons, it seems to take more than a month before they buy their level 7 building, which I often find affordable on the first week and the computer seems to priotize other upgrades than efreeti's and pit fiends.
Which is why, when playing against the computer, when you yourself have Inferno, there's really no need to do a lot, as soon as you've devils week 1, or even week 2, it won't take long before you've won the game. Which I guess is where people's complains about the low health of arch devils comes into play, since you don't really need them tactically against the computer, the advantage of their low health turns into a disadvantage, as you're trying to take out flies with a cannon.
Devils week 1? With a cost of 20 Mercury (lolwut) for the BASIC Devil dwelling, and another 20 Mercury to upgrade the dwelling (seriously?), that was simply not a viable way to go from my experience. Particularly not since you also needed Mercury for Magogs (5 units), Efrit (3 + 5 units, plus all the other ressources) and Pit Lords (5 units), which pretty much means that it's in al ways an either-or - if you should manage to gather 20 Mercury by day 7 (plus another 3 for the Fire Lake), you won't be able to afford any other upgrades soon.
And yeah, you also needed to build Hell Hole and Fire Lake to build Forsaken Palace, and you needed Mage Guild and Demon Gate to build Fire Lake, and Demon Gate in itself required Hall Of Sins which required Imp Crucible, lols. So you needed to build:
Imp Crucible
Hall Of Sins
Mage Guild
Demon Gate
Hell Hole
Fire Lake
Forsaken Palace
and you couldn't build any economic buildings (except if you started with Imp Crucible, which I don't even remember if you did on Impossible difficulty) and you needed to find all that Gold and Mercury on the adventure map, which was generally just not an option as I remember it.
And problem was that if you started down one of the other paths and used Mercury, you didn't have that 20 Surplus Mercury (+ another 20 to upgrade  ) before very late in the game, by when they would simply not be good enough. And here we're talking to get a unit which is more expensive than Black or Gold Dragons which, imo., beats them hand down in usability.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 06, 2011 05:52 PM |
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I usually picked the hero who generated gold from the start
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 06, 2011 06:45 PM |
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Enough about this though. In Heroes VI Inferno is at the bottom and this is obvious for almost everybody. I only wonder if the Ubihole people are taking notes.
In the beta people talked about a Pit Fiend rush, where you went straight to champion. Is that still an option as the game is now, or just something that worked on BA?
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 06, 2011 06:56 PM |
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I think I'd pick Rashka or the dog hero, but usually I wouldn't get to pick.
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And still Fortress is slow as hell on the adventure map
Well, Forretress can have some of the most dangerous scouts around, who are ready to go early and goes quickly through the map. Though it depends on what a typical scout is for you (for me it's a spell caster with 3-6 single stacks of my fastest unit).
Also, on the spells vs. tazar department. I'd say it depends. Generally I think might evolves better than magic, unless hit & run is accepted, in which case it's a scout war most of all. At the time you've a spell caster who can do some serious damage, odds are your opponent have a might hero who now have so much extra attack (and defense) and expert air + haste, that after you've cast your spell and done your actions, he'll, when he get his turn, just cast haste and destroy most of your army, who'll also have poor retaliation due to the speciality of heroes like Tazar. In my opinion, combining a strong spell caster with a ton of unit doesn't provide anything but an expensive scout with a lot of hit points to go by (and will be very expensive when you realise you need to surrender quickly to not loose the entire game).
@Alci
I didn't consider you played on impossible. I usually play on hard, where it's quite easy to attain the 23 mercury quickly. You start with something like 7 and since I'd usually pick extra ressources for Inferno, I'd often already have ~10 mercury from the start. I believe you get an average of 5 mercury pr. mercury ressource you pick and there's often 1-2 around the mines, which is often relatively close to town. As such, all it requires is to find 1-2 more mercury ressources and there's often plenty of ressources, guarded, but not hard to get.
For impossible settings, just skip everything I said ~1 week forward. On impossible, I'll usually have devils at week 2. There I'd also go for efreeti + gogs to clear the map, as it's easy and efficient. I'd still not go for economics buildings though, at least not before I've all dwellings, castle and mage guild up to 4-5. There are of course maps where going for economics buildings is the better strategy, but in my experience those are the more uncommon maps.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 06, 2011 11:38 PM |
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I think the basic reasons for Inferno being thought as weak are two:
1- They have taken away Cerberus no retaliation but didn't add defense to them to compensate for that lackness. At least we could do massive damage with them, without the fear of retaliation before.
2- The faction is mostly based on the Destiny stat. Even their racial and the specialty of their campaign's hero is about destiny. But Lucky Strike right now doesn't work. So we didn't care that much for getting our destiny better. But imagine when it is fixed and having very high destiny; we'll both be dealing Lucky Strikes one after another, while summoning hordes of units. It has the potential to be devastating.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 06, 2011 11:48 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:48, 06 Nov 2011.
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Luck worked during the beta and Inferno was still beaten in most duels where the skills of the players were similar. It's no match for Haven and Necropolis and has difficulties against Stronghold and Sanctuary.
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In the beta people talked about a Pit Fiend rush, where you went straight to champion. Is that still an option as the game is now, or just something that worked on BA?
It's still possible if you have the resources but that seems to be possible only on Broken Alliance (I haven't checked all the maps though). Still, Blade of Hatred is now seriously weakened in comparison with its initial version which worked all the time - now the attacking stack of Pit Fiends has to be considered at least as powerful as the attacked stack, otherwise the thing won't trigger. No more going against neutrals 10 times more powerful than you and forcing them to kill each other...
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ywhtptgtfo
Hired Hero
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posted November 07, 2011 04:04 AM |
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Inferno's the worst in Heroes 6 because its units are fragile and do not do a lot of damage in general.
Juggernaut, Lacerators, and Maniacs all need 2 rounds to cross the battlefield.
Breeders have very low damage and mana drain's not really an issue against might heroes.
Necro will beat it hands down by boxing shooters. Haven, Stronghold, and Sanctuary all have superior range/melee power. Once the Succubi and Cerberi are taken down, the Inferno army is basically done for.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 07, 2011 11:00 AM |
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I don't get why they have nerfed everything that made inferno actually good (like stacking power for Demented, PitLord's blade of hatred abuse, etc) without any real buffs. Heck, they even nerfed the dogs' growth, iirc
We screamed breeders are useless since Closed beta, was it THAT hard for ubihole to give'em "no ranged penalty" ?
I don't get it sometimes. They launched a massive balance test period and completely ignored many things we reported persistently throughout all stages...
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted November 07, 2011 12:41 PM |
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I have to go with haven.
seeing as without their heals they are pretty much screwed.
and seeing once you get the Assassins blade at gold rank it seems to me that at gold rank haven will lose most of its battles.
especially with combination of Despair / mass Despair.
inferno can be pretty devistating late game and you seem to lose alot of units with creeping actualy inferno has some of the easiest creaping around Gereneration / Reenforcements on your cute 3 headed hell hounds and the enemies will still gladly attack that big bag of buffed meat. allowing you to just take out the enemies with your ranged units. albeit that their elite shooters suck but i guess during long dug out fights with enemy heroes they can come in handy.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 07, 2011 01:22 PM |
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I'm not sure if you are talking seriously or you're joking.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 07, 2011 05:45 PM |
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Quote:
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In the beta people talked about a Pit Fiend rush, where you went straight to champion. Is that still an option as the game is now, or just something that worked on BA?
It's still possible if you have the resources but that seems to be possible only on Broken Alliance (I haven't checked all the maps though). Still, Blade of Hatred is now seriously weakened in comparison with its initial version which worked all the time - now the attacking stack of Pit Fiends has to be considered at least as powerful as the attacked stack, otherwise the thing won't trigger. No more going against neutrals 10 times more powerful than you and forcing them to kill each other...
Ah ok, didn't know they had nerfed it. Not that it was probably not the right thing to do, but it sort of closed one of the few things that seemed to go Inferno's way ...
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 07, 2011 05:57 PM |
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It feels as though when they designed the Inferno faction, they were primarily thinking about its role as an enemy faction controlled by the AI rather than an actual player faction. The breeder really exemplifies that more than anything. It's a ranged unit that can pretty much tank as well as a front line melee unit and shoots imps each turn that deal low damage. It reminds me of a boss mob in an RPG or something.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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fersch
Known Hero
Heral knight
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posted November 07, 2011 06:13 PM |
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I agree that inferno is the worst faction for sure but..... Doesnt haven have the weakest units ? In my opinion, without havens healing, haven would be the worst faction.
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httassadar
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 08, 2011 01:19 PM |
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I think the title should be the WEAKEST faction as people are talking. I agree demons are weakest in H6 and H3, but in H5 they are not weak at all. (Although devils look super cool in H3)
In terms of WORST, an overpowered faction is in fact worse for the game, like necro in H6 and to a lesser extent haven in H3. A faction that is too weak, we still have 4-6 others to play with, but a faction that is too strong, then we have no other choice.
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