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Heroes Community > Other Games Exist Too > Thread: Tribes: Ascend
Thread: Tribes: Ascend This thread is 27 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 27 · «PREV / NEXT»
Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 10, 2012 11:45 PM

Hmm... wouldn't recommend it. I'd leave the base disruption to RDRs, INFs and JUGs.

Area denial is your only strong asset, without it you're just a soldier with worse dueling skills.

I have a tough time trying to figure out what kinda role a Brute is supposed to play really... they really need some new equipment.

It's really tough playing Brute so respect to you for staying with it.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 11, 2012 03:03 AM

Sonic Punch is fricking worth it just for the awesomely trollish moments you get with it.

I think I've found a role in standing in the midfield, anticipating the routes of cappers and just smashing 'em in the face when they pass by.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 11, 2012 07:20 PM
Edited by Shares at 19:28, 11 Mar 2012.

There's a bug with the friendlist updating. When you add a friend you have to disconnect and reconnect to the server (ie. restart the game or wait for you to get randomly disconnected(and quite often it's hard to tell which is faster)).

Quote:
I get the feeling you're more skilled than me now, you were before as well but the gap is bigger now... especially considering the artboard.


Thanks, but I know there are several areas where you propably outplay me still, and I actually think you are/were the better player when we first ran into each other. That I was getting so many free kills as a doombringer might've skewed your perception of me I'm quite certain you're faster than me for example, being the better capper and chaser (but we don't seem to be doing that that much) as well as being a vastly superior shriker and I'm sure there's more.

As for fractals I agree with Adrius. They're not made for the killing. They're made to deny access. Since they have an extended duration (compared to all other grenades) and huge splash fractal or two can cut of all reinforcements and all escaping a battle in the generrooms for example, or dropping one by the corner as you're trying to run away to regen or get into a better position will mean that nobody can come after you. It's an almost instant strategic advantage, but strategy is harder to make use of than stats are, but then again: CTF isn't about kills, it's about denying efficency for the other team. A common situation I find myself in as brute is entering the enemy gener room with 2-3 fractals and take out a couple of techs down there. with the fractals I have already, the two ammo drops and the looter perk I may very well be able to block the gener room for a full minute with the fractals alone (leaving some tempting and dangeroussly short openings for the enemies), and still people may run into the fractals and leave you more ammo.
If you want to use fractals to kill in combat you use them for crowd control. If you place a fractal by your opponent in a corridor he'll either have to back off (disengage, which is a win if you're in enemy territory and you're blocking the gener, since it buys you time(provided the gener is actually important in that game*)) or move forward. If they move forward you know where they are moving. You suddenly made your opponent predictable, and it's much easier getting a good spinfusor off if they are, as well as propably waste a bunch of energy getting out of that are with the jetpacks. Getting a blueplate off in a situation where the opponent moving towards you in a straight line is the most likely scenario is rather possible, and getting a blueplate off with the heavy spinfusor is... satisfying (though I do believe that a blueplate with the heavy spinfusor should do more damage and perhaps even one-shot mediums, but have a just slightly slower rate of fire. People should be very afraid of a heavy spinfusor, since it's supposedely one of the most dangerous weapons in the game).

I've been playing brute a bit lately, now that I have gotten some upgrades for it (ammo upgrades are a bit too important for my taste. Most classes are so weak with just one grenade and when the main ammo runs out all the time you're kind of screwed) and been noticing that the brute is great in 1v1s and battles with more people in them. A brute can turn a 4v4 around in a way no other class can (as long as the players don't stack up and get killed by some splash weapon), but they are rather weak when alone and outnumbered. So I've been thinking about getting the potential energy perk and the heavy shield pack. I'm very curious as to see how much beating a brute could take then. I think I'll get it all and then go into a test game and calculate the health. It ought to be really significant, since a shielded raider can be a real nuisance to take out and the heavy shield pack is supposedely more efficient.


* (Purpose of brutes)This is propably the reason people are complaining about the brute being a bit purposeless. In the pubs the gener defence is often very inconsistent and simply set up in a bad way. Since raiders, infiltrators and even soldiers and juggers can take down a stupid gener defence, the brute isn't required in that case. There are a few common example. The first one is the one where all the seven techs in a team put all their turrets and sensor mines down there and think that they shouldn't have to worry about the gener ever again (since these things are merely delays it'll be rather easy to take the gener down regardless). Another one is where all the seven techs keep patroling the gener room and the surroundings. In this scenario it'd be better to find a place to camp as a jugger and spam mortars(waiting for techs to run into them) or play inf and pick one off every now or then, just leave a sticky by the gener, kill a turret every now and then and just generally make your presence known every now and then. This way all the techs running around replacing turrets(ammo refill is excellent kill time), repairing the gener (excellent kill time) and just fire randomly, hoping to hit you. This way you may even be able to run over to the flag and annoy that lone doombringer desperately trying to do defend a base all on his own while half his team is in the gener doing a two man job. Since that defence is overrepresented the attack should just give the defenders there a feeling of being threatened. A brute would run in there and die, propably get more kills than either the jugger or the inf, but the defenders wouldn't feel threatened. An inf is a constant threat and they can't even know when the threat is truly gone. Another case of an overrepresented gener defence is when a few doombringers set up forcefields in the gener. Just killing forcefield will keep them occupied, leaving the rest of their team crippled in numbers.
An underrepresented defence can be taken out by anything and something with the mobility do to something else as well may be preferred.
Then there's the case when the gener isn't even important. When there are no doombringers or techs on the enemy flag defence and the base turrets have been down since they were first destroyed (ie. since somebody destroyed them the before the 30s mark for the free points )
Then there is the very rare case of a well composed and needed defence. There are drop jammers by the flag and the gener, making an inf-attack very hard, a few turrets by the flag and a couple in the gener room and there's a fully upgraded and talented doombringer HoF with perpetual FF's and mines that denies all grabs and actual midfielders that'll prevent or make sieging the flag very difficult. By the gener is a couple of guys. A thumping tech and another guy (raider, soldier, brute, infiltrator). Suddenly the gener is an easy way to open a grabbing opportunity and it clearly cannot be easily performed and the brute is suddenly a class that can break something no other class would be able to, and suddenly it'll be important to prevent the gener from being retaken for as long as possible.
This is when I see the brute being really important. It's a tide turner and a tipper of scales, but that's mostly possible in a high class game where both teams are rather even and well composed. I think the brute will be very, very significant in competetive play, while staying a bit redundant in the unbalanced pubs... or you can just pair another class it's a wicked combo. As inf I sometimes run into the occational friendly brute and since I can position myself (almost) freely and he can control area and take damage both of us get so much more efficency, and using the spinfusor to shove people into fractals is just pure entertainment, and watching them panic as they get stuck between a sticky and a fractal, having to run into one of them is just hillarious.

EDIT: Oh, and I usually don't find myself with a high ping on the east US server, but the west one is a bit inconsistent. Which one are you on, B-boy? And do you have any tips for playing brute?

EDIT2: Or I could've just checked your location on your profile and just assume that you're on east.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 11, 2012 11:36 PM
Edited by Shares at 23:42, 11 Mar 2012.

There! Finally got the upgrades for potential energy and heavy shield pack(HSP), so I'll drop some stats on you for comparison.

To kill an unshielded brute it took 4 heavy spinfusors to my feet.
With HSP and ultra capacitor I and II it took 6.
With HSP and no extra energy it took 5.
With HSP one ultra capacitor and potential energy it took 8.

700 damage (one heavy spinfusor with max splash damage (not direct hit) seems to drain 90 energy, making 1 energy~7.8 HP) and 700 damage seems to regenerate 40 energy (100 damage gives you ~6 energy).
Seeing as the brute has 2600HP that'd translate into ~150 extra energy, which is ~1200 extra HP. So that leaves us four HP values to sum together to get an effective total.
Base health                         2600
85 base energy                     ~660 HP (+80 for an ultra capacitor)
155 potential energy               ~1240 HP
Energy recharged/drained*        ~~~1200 HP

Total:                             ~4700  (Beowulf is 8000)

This is if everything is executed ideally and you manage to sync your HP and energy to reach 0 at the same hit. More realistically you'd die with several hundred base HP left, miss out a lot on recharge/drain technique and the potential energy is ONLY from explosive damage to health. If your timings and predictions are off a bit you may take some direct projectile damage from direct hit projectiles. More realistically you'd propably end up with 3500-4000 HP in a 15s battle against a splash weapon enemy and 3000-3500 against a rifle type enemy as long as you refrain from the jetpack.

*The HSP drains ~4.5 energy/s when activated. Recharge is 10/s. If perfectly executed the HSP would only be activated an instant as damage is taken, leaving the effective regen at 9.99/s. If we assume that a battle is ~15s this is another ~1200 HP. This one is of course very, very varied, since using a jetpack would drain it rather rapidly as well, and humans can't possibly get the reflexes required to not drains ANY noticable ammount of energy.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 11, 2012 11:41 PM

So... do you think it's worth it?
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 11, 2012 11:48 PM
Edited by Shares at 23:52, 11 Mar 2012.

Well, this is just the direct combat approach and I have to give up survavilst for potential energy. This'll still help a bunch if I want to disc jump (by either repleneshing a lot of energy or not damaging me, allowing for more jumps) and the initial test shows that it can double your resiliance. The question is how much more damage will you take from not using the jetpack(and loosing 35 energy from the energy pack).

All in all I'd say this makes the brute stronger in combat as well as adding long distance movement capability, but loosing the combat mobility that was unique for it as a heavy as well as being a more difficult mechanic to make use of.

...

So... uhm... I'm going to go with yes, but I'll have to play around with it a lot more if I want to know. Regardless I'll go with shield pack, since I like having an activated pack... It's nice having a panic button.

EDIT: It also ends up being map dependant. On Crossfire you don't really need, and can't really make use of, the extra speed build up, since it's so close by and so flat along the way (you'll get there fast enough anyway and too fast for health regen to kick in, leaving you with less life and energy if you disc jumped at all), and you need the extra energy to get up on the ship and to move around quickly. On the other maps you can build up speed and still have enough time to let regen kick in and you'll arrive with full energy and health as well as quickly, and you wont have to use as much jetpack to get into the enemy base smoothly.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 12, 2012 12:01 AM

We'll see if you have the reflexes to turn on that sparkly thing when you hear the beeping sound in your back... ^^

If someone gets the drop on you you might lose 50% efficiency.

Btw I'm getting used to the cloak delay... I still don't like it and find it unneccesary... but it's not as big a hindrance as I thought.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 12, 2012 12:21 AM
Edited by Shares at 00:55, 12 Mar 2012.

I'll keep a finger ready on the button! You just try and come at me, bro!

And yeah, the delay is something that simply removed an aspect of skill. One just have to rely on the faster hit and runs, and stand still more often, waiting and hoping. Most of the time people are to busy to even look around themselves, yet alone go around corners and check usually empty spaces... but when they do...

EDIT: I just went into a straight on toe-to-toe battle with a tank... and I won. So... A HSP Brute with Potential Energy can just go brute on a tank. Sure, it was at 2/3 health when we started, but I had plenty of life left when it died.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 12, 2012 12:59 AM

He must've freaked out when you didn't try to dodge and just took the shells to the face like a boss ^^
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 12, 2012 01:04 AM

He must've been freaked out when he got his fifth hit on me and I just shrugged and put the final spinfusor to that piece of scrap! He catapulted out and I took three other people with me as I died and managed to leave a fractal on their flagstand... but nobody got schwooped in and grabbed the flag after I've made it safe
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 12, 2012 01:06 AM

I always keep fraps on so I can capture moments of epicness like that... problem is they often happen so randomly that I don't have time to get 'em.

Free version of fraps... just 30 seconds of capture.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 12, 2012 01:36 AM

That's a good idea. I should try to keep fraps up, just in case... I do have the full version though, so if I forget to toggle it off it'll just keep recording and save uncompressed, raw video footage (recorded 45 min or so the other day and it ended up being 80 GB raw footage. 450 MB with mpeg4 codec at 720p... and I just know I will forget it at some point, being I keep Audacity up at all times, if I ever feel like recording some sound and I've started audio recordings and forgotten to turn them off several times. Well... That'll be a fun day, it will
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted March 12, 2012 02:47 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 02:52, 12 Mar 2012.

First thing I do when a match starts is consecutively dump my fractals on the flag. It's amazing how many times it takes a piece of skin off of  a pathfinder when they're trying to quickly get a free flag.

I agree that Brutes have better potential when there's a small crowd on each side fighting. The heavy spinfusor has more damage potential than its smaller cousins when taking opportunistic shots on people that aren't actively dodging you. Plus 700 or 980 damage on a light or medium will leave a small enough slice of leftover life to make them an easy pick-off for a friendly. You can get a lot of Assists just getting a hit wherever you can rather than using your energy trying to kill somebody entirely.

I feel like I get some pretty nice damage payout on my fractals beyond just the strategic value of keeping people out of an area for a little bit. Especially when I drop them as I'm fleeing (or "fleeing") from people in a corridor. They're very easy to spot but even so they have a good enough radius that you don't have much time to get out of the way once you see one.

You have to realize that I am currently a very selfish player. I'm not sure how valuable a guide from me would be. I don't even pay attention to what's going on with the flag, I guess largely because I find trying to keep Pathfinders away from it to be an unrewarding job. I mostly just... go out and pick fights as though I had a severe Napoleon complex. Right now I'm using ultra capicitator and egocentric as my perks. I tend to play it purposely close to the chest with my grenades and even my spinfusor in close corridors, or out in the open when somebody is passing me or trying to get a melee hit in.  Like just the other night I dumped two fractals in an enemy gen room, then ran in and starting shooting people. My one disc blast pushed a guy back into the grenade radius. The ~420 damage is reduced to like 270 for me.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 12, 2012 02:56 AM

Leaving a couple of fractals on the flag sounds like a good idea actually. If nothing else it should allow your team mates to establish the defence. I'll propably adopt that and then move down to meet the inital push for the gener and refill my fractals and then move out to where I'm needed. Sounds about right.
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Adrius
Adrius


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Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 12, 2012 03:00 AM

As an INF I can do many roles on the battlefield so... not being selfish kinda lends itself naturally to it.

This is how the first minutes in a match usually goes like for me:

1. Kill the generator.
2. Kill the sensors.
3. Kill base turrets.
4. Clear the flagstand.
5. Go back into the gen, kill TCNs and get Stickies refill.
6. Keep being a pain in the ass for the enemy.

Many INFs hide in the enemy generator all day long but that's severely limiting to the class' potential.

I usually do the best job for my team as an emergency e-grabber. I see an enemy capper approaching, throw a sticky at the flagbase and then e-grab their flag and fly away. Enemy capper gets blown up by sticky, I VGW and disc-jump away. I often die but those seconds I buy the team is worth it.

If my flag is not secure I have no business slaying TCNs in the Gen, I go up immediately to greet the enemy capper returning to his base.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted March 12, 2012 03:13 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 03:15, 12 Mar 2012.

A fractal will shoot for about 7 seconds. A 14 second window of nearly-uninterrupted fire on the flag at the beginning leaves a lot of wiggle room to get a hit on the first pathfinder. It's a good habit to get into. If the inventory stations are up sometimes I just dump them on it after I spawn and then do a quick reload before going wherever. You never know.

As a brute, any role you might have against cappers is likely going to involve a single well-timed shot (granted, one shot is all you need). After that they're gone and it's in somebody else's hands. In theory you could just keep hanging around and dumping fractals on the flag and it would be a decent deterrent, but that's not much fun. It's better to just leave it to Mr. Chaingun.

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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 12, 2012 03:18 AM

Hmm... on Crossfire 7 seconds is definitely enough to go to an inventory station and back to the flagstand... with Safety Third you get 21 seconds of uninterrupted Fractal Fire...

Man that would indeed be boring but effective as ****.
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Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted March 12, 2012 03:53 AM

Oh yeah, it'd be great as long as all cappers where going 100 sanics or less. If they're going fast they'll just pass through unharmed or maybe, just maybe, be hit by one ray... but sure, it'll prevent llamas and stuff like that. I'd rather see fractal spam in the like of the mortar spam in that case. Maybe by the jet stream on Crossfire or any corridor by the gener on any map.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Cave Moose
posted March 12, 2012 05:12 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 17:13, 12 Mar 2012.

I'd be curious to know how the grenade actually works, because I seem to get hits with it most of the time, even for the people moving extremely fast. I think the green lasers have an AoE to them. They're don't just operate like bullets. The grenade will fire for ~4 seconds, then pause for a second, and then fire some more for 2 seconds. There's a small window where it's not shooting anything but besides that you're likely going to get hit.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted March 13, 2012 12:03 AM

I just ran into a Sentinel that only defended the Gen.

Drop Jammers and Claymores, firing his Falcon at invaders.

Very interesting playstyle, he owned me hard. He got raped by JUGs like everyone else though but still... it's like playing a harder version of TCN with added Jamming... pretty cool.
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