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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 07, 2011 03:50 PM |
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Quote:
... And Necropolis will just resurrect everything back with Necromancy and the Ghosts...
lol, moot point... you suggest to flee on sight? as they will always be able to use necromancy to heal
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... casualties suffered against the neutrals ...
can't see the reason to loose them on creeps
Quote:
Your only hope for good damage is to hit two-three creatures simultaneously with Luck (when it starts working again).
luck is random, but why would you not hit at least two stacks?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 07, 2011 03:58 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:00, 07 Dec 2011.
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Quote:
lol, moot point... you suggest to flee on sight? as they will always be able to use necromancy to heal
What's your point? What I'm saying is that charging Cerberi against the Necropolis turtle will have zero effect. You disagree because...?
Quote:
can't see the reason to loose them on creeps
Yes, you may not lose them on creeps, in which case you will have to creep with one stack less. Seriously, has any of you people actually tried these things or you are just playing armchair generals? Reinforcements add 2-3 additional creatures initially which is nothing vs. all but the smallest neutral stacks and Regeneration/Drain Life works as long as there are spell points. So you'll run home as soon as you have no spells points to attack the next neutral stack without losing troops?
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luck is random, but why would you not hit at least two stacks?
And why would the opponent arrange his stacks just as you want them to be arranged so you can hit at least two stacks?
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 07, 2011 04:15 PM |
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Quote:
What's your point? What I'm saying is that charging Cerberi against the Necropolis turtle will have zero effect. You disagree because...?
because it's just not true... now you look like armchair general.
necromancy is good but not that good
Quote:
Yes, you may not lose them on creeps, in which case you will have to creep with one stack less. Seriously, has any of you people actually tried these things or you are just playing armchair generals? Reinforcements add 2-3 additional creatures initially which is nothing vs. all but the smallest neutral stacks and Regeneration/Drain Life works as long as there are spell points. So you'll run home as soon as you have no spells points to attack the next neutral stack without losing troops?
then i suggest you abuse demented more...
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And why would the opponent arrange his stacks just as you want them to be arranged so you can hit at least two stacks?
because it's pretty hard to arrange all your stack so that no two of them are next to each other... (especially true for turtles)
p.s. i agree that dogs are not in best place atm, but talking complete rubbish does not help anyone
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 07, 2011 04:21 PM |
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Like you are actually saying something. Just move along...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2011 04:53 PM |
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Zeno, you must be kidding. Why would you lose troops, creeping with Inferno?
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted December 07, 2011 10:23 PM |
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Quote:
I'd disagree. Knights had disadvantages in sieges and slow first day movements was annoying, but they weren't weak. Knight heroes boosted troops well. Troops had good damage output, even peasants were not easy to avoid on the small field and often got a good hit done before dying. Most importantly, knight buildings and units were cheap and, particularly on higher difficulties, they gained early game advantage. Thereafter it is up to the map and player how well that early advantage is converted into late game advantage.
Time for a reality check.
1. Knight hero grants a +1 morale bonus. That's all.
2. Knight buildings were not cheap. Quite the opposite ! In Heroes 1 and Heroes 2, Knight dwellings are unique in that they require extreme number of misc buildings (Well for Pikemen, Tavern for Swordsmen). This means Knight, who already starts with slow archers and slow peasants, is further hindered by slow town development. But wait, there's more. Both Cathedral and Jousting Arena require 20 wood. This effectively means that you have to choose between Paladins (level 6) and Cavaliers (level 5). Especially on higher difficulties. Knight town might be inexpensive in terms of resources, but it's the most expensive in terms of days needed to build. It only gets worse in Heroes 2, you have 5 upgradeable units (warlock: 1 really, dragons are powerful even at green; sorc - 3 units, barbarian - 3 units, necro - 4 units, wizard - 3 units). And because your wood supply is under a heavy stress, you'll have hard time building up neutral villages.
I explored a lot of strategies to make Knight faction work early, and you have to utilize every trick in the book to break even (for example recruit warlocks as soon as possible, gargoyles will block shooters and centaurs are just good unit compared to what you have).
Knight in Heroes 1 and 2 has one relevant advantage: they can have a fast army if they leave slower units home. Only Cavalry and Paladins in H1, Champions/Paladins/V.Pikemen in H2. Strong units of other factions are slower. This is particularly useful in H1 where army speed is everything due to lack of Logistics.
If you want a good rush faction in Heroes 1 or 2, play... warlock. No, you don't have to take dragons if you don't want to. Centaurs are decent shooters and they won't slow army down. Griffins, gargoyles, minotaurs have very good stats. Leave hydras for town defense. And hire a knight to lead your army. Warlock is funny because he have any misc building requirements. Sorceress is good on a bit richer maps. Barbarian is good but it's tricky to avoid losses, your army is a bit lacking in speed.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted December 08, 2011 08:38 AM |
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Quote:
That's not applicable vs. Sanctuary and Stronghold and won't do much damage vs. Haven due to the Praetorians which are usually in the centre of the turtle. And Necropolis will just resurrect everything back with Necromancy and the Ghosts, in the latter case using the Cerberi as life potions. Moreover, the damage of the Cerberi stack is overestimated. The individual damage of the creature is high but the stack is always among the smallest on the battlefield due to the low growth and eventually the casualties suffered against the neutrals - as a result it doesn't deal much more damage than most of the other Core stacks. Your only hope for good damage is to hit two-three creatures simultaneously with Luck (when it starts working again).
So generaly a larger Cerbery growth (+1 to Growth for the basic and upgrade structure) and they would be more usefull. Ot do I see your opinion badly?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted December 08, 2011 11:32 AM |
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Inferno just needs a core tank unit and the maniacs are not them as hit points are too low.....reckon the cerberi hit points should be higher and might defense too....
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 02:25 PM |
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Quote:
Inferno just needs a core tank unit and the maniacs are not them as hit points are too low.....reckon the cerberi hit points should be higher and might defense too....
Look at 1.2 patch note : They are going to buff Dogs (from 4 to 6 defense) but I personally think they should give Maniax better overall stats, because at the moment they are completely useless.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted December 08, 2011 02:55 PM |
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It's the hit points that need boosting too. And defense maybe to 8.
Yeah, maniacs should have healing laughter or something as a speciality....
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odium
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 03:21 PM |
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Edited by odium at 15:22, 08 Dec 2011.
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Quote:
Look at 1.2 patch note : They are going to buff Dogs (from 4 to 6 defense) but I personally think they should give Maniax better overall stats, because at the moment they are completely useless.
In my not so thorough Inferno experience I used maniacs quite efficiently, especially in the early stages of the game. So, I think that them being useless is an overstatement. On the other hand, even if my experience of playing Inferno is not sufficient to draw a final conclusion, it seems that the dogs lack indeed in survivability (the patch confirms this).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 03:22 PM |
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Oh, sure. *facepalm*
The breeders could breed Cerberi, and the Ravagers could get a special attack slamming all opponents in a 2-square radius to Sheogh.
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 05:34 PM |
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I think that the Breeder should have an ability to throw two imps or even three at once, spreading and attacking random enemy creatures.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 05:38 PM |
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Quote:
I think that the Breeder should have an ability to throw two imps or even three at once, spreading and attacking random enemy creatures.
Breeder should have an ability to throw Pit Lord to get Inferno balanced ahahaha 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 06:48 PM |
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So let's just assume for the sake of the argument that Inferno WAS underpowered.
In this case, wouldn't it be correct to say that everyone else was overpowered, since Inferno just seems to be the way the factions SHOULD be?
Wouldn't you then simply have to nerf everyone else?
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 07:02 PM |
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Quote:
So let's just assume for the sake of the argument that Inferno WAS underpowered.
In this case, wouldn't it be correct to say that everyone else was overpowered, since Inferno just seems to be the way the factions SHOULD be?
Wouldn't you then simply have to nerf everyone else?
Wouldn't be easier to just power up inferno than needing the other 4 factions to inferno's level/standard?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 08, 2011 07:22 PM |
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Quote:
In this case, wouldn't it be correct to say that everyone else was overpowered, since Inferno just seems to be the way the factions SHOULD be?
Wouldn't you then simply have to nerf everyone else?
Obviously yes, if there was an objective meassure of how factions "should" be. And I'm not saying that you're wrong, just pointing out that before you change 4 factions instead of 1, you'd need to have a reason for it.
I could find some, but that's another story.
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What will happen now?
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted December 08, 2011 10:38 PM |
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Inferno just don't have that umph! to be strong, it's in their racial....I mean when gating is used alot, it can benefit you, but you need to make your troops last long enough, they just get killed like fodder.....
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 08, 2011 11:03 PM |
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Strange, though, that Inferno is the most fun to play...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 08, 2011 11:06 PM |
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Maybe that's because the others are trivial due to overly accessible resurrection? 
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What will happen now?
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This thread is pages long: 
