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| Thread: A mutable Faction approach | |
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 03, 2011 01:28 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 13:36, 19 Dec 2011.
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A mutable Faction approach
This is just another faction approach by me. To be precise, I had this idea for the last ICTC. I would have gone into this with it, wasn't I judging. now, I make it as a fulll factions approach instead. But now enough foreword, to it.
In a nutshell:
The basic idea of this approach is the following. A town of a faction can grow into different ways, offering different creatures.
How it works
Factions are no longer as fixed as before. A Town of a faction can follow different ways. A low-level town still is allways the same, but when it grows, it begins to differ.
It all starts with the Core Faction of a town. It enables 2 Core Units and 1 Elite unit.
When reaching a certain point of growth, One of Two Paths must be chosen for the town. This associates the town with a (true) Faction, enabling each 1 more Core and Elite creature.
Finally, when the town gets huge, it chooses the final path of a Subfaction. This enables a last Elite unit and a Champion unit.
NOTE: Towns can be conversed, to get all your towns (of your Core faction) into the one you wish, but it costs ressources and time (in which no buildings can be built)
...well, I think it's best to just get to the Factions.
Core Faction 1 - Empereal
A vast area of this world is populated by humans. Though they are very versatile, most of them share a basic lifestyle. Named by the, now fallen, Iron empire, towns of this style are sometimes called "Empereal" settlements.
Core 1: Guardsman
Core 2: Crossbowman
Elite 1: Cavalry
Paths to be chosen:
CONSERVATION, leading to the 'Haven' Town
OR
OBSERVATION, leading to the 'Tower' Town
Empereal Faction 1 - Feudals
The Feudal towns, homes of the knights, virtues defender of the people. A strict and hard hierarchical ladder is a core aspec tof these towns as well.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Legionnaire
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Marksman
Core 3: Swordman
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Templar
Elite 2: Monk
Paths to be chosen:
BELIEF, leading to the 'Cathedral' Town
or
NOBILITY, leading to the 'Castle' Town
Feudal Subfaction 1 - Clergy
The Clergy is strong in all Feudal Towns, but in some of them its even stronger. These are the cathedrals, bastios of belief.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Legionnaire
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Marksman
Core 3: Swordman -> Crusader
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Templar
Elite 2: Monk -> Zealot
Elite 3: Valkyrie
Champion: Angel
Feudal Subfaction 2 - Nobility
The Nobility has a big influence in all Feudal towns, but its influence in the castles is unreached. The Lord of a castle is allways surrounded by their courtiers - and even more servants. Noble sports as hunting are celebrated.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Legionnaire
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Marksman
Core 3: Swordman -> Fencer
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Templar
Elite 2: Monk -> Pardoner
Elite 3: Griffin
Champion: Dragon Knight
Empereal Faction 2 - Mages
The Mages are not the only inhabitants of the Towers, but the most dominant and prominent. There are more freedoms than in Feudal towns, but there are nonetheless many poor and few rich.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Pikeman
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Rifleman
Core 3: Golem
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Lancer
Elite 2: Mage
Paths to be chosen:
GIVING, leading to the 'Academy' Town
or
TAKING, leading to the 'Citadel' Town
Mages Subfaction 1 - Scholars
There are two main types of towers. One of them are the Academies, places of knowledge, where lots of students gather to learn the arts of the arcane - and prosperous towns can develop around these many students and mages who have worldly needs despite all their arcane power.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Pikeman
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Rifleman
Core 3: Golem -> Iron Golem
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Lancer
Elite 2: Mage -> Council Mage
Elite 3: Djin
Champion: Colossus
Mages Subfaction 2 - Magocracies
There are two main types of towers. One of them are the Citadels, places of power, where strong mages rule - some with mercy, others with oppression. But no matter how, the mages are on rule here. and it is not bad for the people living there, in terms of prosperity.
Core 1: Guardsman -> Pikeman
Core 2: Crossbowman -> Rifleman
Core 3: Golem -> Gargoyle
Elite 1: Cavalry -> Lancer
Elite 2: Mage -> Battle Mage
Elite 3: Roc
Champion: Titan
Core Faction 2 - The Hidden
Many races and cultures, especially those in their bloom, act openly and recklessly. They populate the world's face and try to shape it to their will - and they try to shape others to their will as well. But their are those neglecting that, retreating into deep valles and thick forests, or to the unpopulated borderlands. The Hidden do care for the world, in their way, but they prefer it's emptier parts, for one or another reason.
Core 1: Halfling
Core 2: Faun
Elite 1: Ranger
Paths to be chosen:
PRESERVATION, leading to the 'Sylvan' Town
OR
SECRECY, leading to the 'Hideout' Town
Hidden Faction 1 - Sylvan
The Elves of the Forests have a strong bond to the land they live in. They, and their allies, retreat further and further into these lands, away from the noisy world of humans and others, keeping their traditions and the bond to nature up.
Core 1: Halfling ->
Core 2: Faun -> Satyr
Core 3: Dryad
Elite 1: Ranger ->
Elite 2:
Paths to be chosen:
DISTRUST, leading to the 'Rampart' Town
or
BALANCE, leading to the '' Town
Sylvan Subfaction 1 - Rampart
Many Sylvans, elves as well as others, share a strong hatred against those who try to shape the world to their will. This hatred is as storng as their love to th elands they live in. They will try to defend these place against any intruder - and they see anyone as an intruder.
Core 1: Halfling ->
Core 2: Faun -> Satyr
Core 3: Dryad ->
Elite 1: Ranger ->
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Sylvan Subfaction 2 - Circle
Following the old tradition of the Druids, many Sylvans belief in the value and power of Balance. These are the followers of the Ancient Circle of Elders. They can be found anywhere, and though they ar enot fond of strangers, they will rather retreat further than open a conflict.
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Hidden Faction 2 - the Fled
There are many reasons to fly and hide from the so called civilized world and those who have one, usually gather in the Hideouts, if they find one. This brings very different people together here. The things they share are a will to keep their home a secret, a love for freedome and a hate for injustice.
Core 1: Halfling ->
Core 2: Faun ->
Core 3:
Elite 1: Ranger ->
Elite 2:
Paths to be chosen:
, leading to the 'Shelter' Town
or
, leading to the 'Asylum' Town
Fled Subfaction 1 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Hideout Subfaction 2 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Core Faction 3 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Elite 1:
Paths to be chosen:
, leading to the '' Town
OR
, leading to the '' Town
Faction 1 -
Core 1: ->
Core 2: ->
Core 3:
Elite 1: ->
Elite 2:
Paths to be chosen:
, leading to the '' Town
or
, leading to the '' Town
Subfaction 1 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Subfaction 2 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Faction 2 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Paths to be chosen:
, leading to the '' Town
or
, leading to the '' Town
Subfaction 1 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Subfaction 2 -
Core 1:
Core 2:
Core 3:
Elite 1:
Elite 2:
Elite 3:
Champion:
Work in Progress
EDIT: though work is still very in progress, comments are allready appreciated 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 03:37 AM |
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Interesting idea, real interesting, although if it was me there's only be a single decision with maybe 2-3 factions to choose from.
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redprince24
Hired Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 04:29 AM |
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Creative and original.
I'm looking to follow the continuity of your ideas which impress me a lot.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 03, 2011 11:51 AM |
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*********!!!
I just worte in this thread an hour, than lost all because of ****** "page back" key 
this is SO demotivating
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athas65
Known Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 01:04 PM |
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wow what a coincidence!
I had the exact idea about a month ago! but I have been busy and did not developed it.
some of my ideas for ex. where:
- "Cave", an underground faction of outlaws and dark arts.
-- "Dungeon", creature of darkness, led by dark elves.
--- More monstrous version, Black Dragon champion.
--- More "dark empire" style, Faceless champion.
-- "Abyss", cultists who worship demons.
--- Destruction, focused on raw power, Abyssal Destroyer champion.
--- Corruption, focused on battlefield control, Pit Fiend champion.
Other ideas where:
A nature faction of elves, beast and spirits which becomes a forest faction or water-based faction.
A barbarian faction, becomes ether an orc desert faction or lizard swamp faction.
anyway, nice ideas so far, hope to see more, and maybe i will post some of my ideas on the forum.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 03, 2011 01:40 PM |
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your ideas sound nice at well. I today developed the Faction of the "Hidden", composed by those drawing themselves and their settlements away from the curious eyes of humans and others. Thinking of this, my general ideas now:
-Hidden (s.above)
--Sylvan (you know, hideous elves, retreating from the mortals deeper and deeper)
---Rampart (Violently defending their forest from outsiders)
---Circle (better name needed. the followers of Balance-seeking druids)
--Hideout (these are freedom-lovers, who hide from the eyes of pursuers of any kind. here you'll find some more "Shadowy" figures, like rogues, and trolls, etc.
---Shelter (the refugium for the opressed and misunderstood)
---Asylum (more into the direction of shadow)
-Ruins (The wrecked remains of so called "civilized" cities are gathering place for many sinister figures)
--Here I'm uncertain wether it should split into necromancers & Vampires or Undead and Demonics 
Further I'm uncertain about the Orcs...I hav ein mind both a Strength based core faction, together with dwarves, splitting up in Barbarians and some kinda warlords, or a Tribal Faction with many beastmen.
Also I'm not sure wether and how dungeon shall come in.
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redprince24
Hired Hero
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posted December 03, 2011 01:54 PM |
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Quote:
*********!!!
I just worte in this thread an hour, than lost all because of ****** "page back" key
this is SO demotivating
It's better for us to write it on the notepad at first before copying it to this page - just to make sure that it'll be alright. 
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 03, 2011 01:57 PM |
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yes I know I get to know it about twice a year I should know by now bu tI make this mstake again and again
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2011 09:12 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
*********!!!
I just worte in this thread an hour, than lost all because of ****** "page back" key
this is SO demotivating
It's better for us to write it on the notepad at first before copying it to this page - just to make sure that it'll be alright.
Or alternatively, opening the reply in a new tab (assuming your using a browser that allows multiple tabs).
Also, I had an idea about variable factions touched off by another guy's comment over on Celestial Heavens, basically you had a core faction with 2 core, 2 elite and the 1 champion unit, and then you went around nabbing animal dens and sub-race dwellings to fill the gaps, or even replace your normal creatures (animal dens would give you 1 creature, sub-race dwellings one or two, depending). I didn't take it further though, due to the fact that it would totally have wrecked most of my faction designs.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted December 04, 2011 12:14 PM |
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Edited by B0rsuk at 12:15, 04 Dec 2011.
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No, no, no ! Remember, what happened to Heroes 4 ? Heroes players hate it when they can't have it all. "Leave your stinking choices outside my strategy game".
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 04, 2011 10:06 PM |
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Quote:
Creative and original.
I'm looking to follow the continuity of your ideas which impress me a lot.
I second this.
If I was going to play the devil's advocate here, however, can you say some more about what you want to achieve with this system? I mean, if I were to put on my negativity glasses, what you offer here is basically 4 factions (namely two alternative Havens, and two alternative Academies, to use H5 language) that all share the same three units (Guardsman, Crosbowman, Cavalry), and even if they upgrade into different things in the various towns, isn't there a risk of getting very repetitive?
____________
What will happen now?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 04, 2011 10:25 PM |
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I also miss having to choose which creatures you wanted like in H4. That was such a fun feature that unfortunately never survived into H5. If they ever combined that with alternative upgrades like in H5, you could have one hell of an awesome game, although balance becomes such a difficulty with that.
I've seen this kind of an idea proposed on multiple occasions. It's a fun idea and would be a good way to introduce more themes into the game without having to invent an entirely different faction from the ground up, which would present difficulties.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2011 10:48 PM |
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Quote:
No, no, no ! Remember, what happened to Heroes 4 ? Heroes players hate it when they can't have it all. "Leave your stinking choices outside my strategy game".
H4 fell over because it was buggy and unbalanced, not because you couldn't get all the creatures in a single town.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted December 05, 2011 12:20 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Creative and original.
I'm looking to follow the continuity of your ideas which impress me a lot.
I second this.
If I was going to play the devil's advocate here, however, can you say some more about what you want to achieve with this system? I mean, if I were to put on my negativity glasses, what you offer here is basically 4 factions (namely two alternative Havens, and two alternative Academies, to use H5 language) that all share the same three units (Guardsman, Crosbowman, Cavalry), and even if they upgrade into different things in the various towns, isn't there a risk of getting very repetitive?
?I'm not sure what you mean. As I said, the work is in progress. Also, I see it more the other way round. I have two factions here, both belonging to the same core faction, thus they have the same basic units, and splitting into each two subfactions, which alter only the highest units.
...what I want to achieve with this is a usuable, balanced system of variable towns/factions, which you can develop while playing a scenario. To avoid being stuck with unfitting units, the conversion is there.
Quote:
No, no, no ! Remember, what happened to Heroes 4 ? Heroes players hate it when they can't have it all. "Leave your stinking choices outside my strategy game".
Then why were alternate upgrades not so banished, but (as I observed, at least) seen rather positive?! As MattII, I think it were other reasons H4 "fell", if you wish to call it so. One was mentioned. Another one, which I avoided here, was the fact that built dwellings couldn't be changed, so you were stuck with other units from neutral towns. And there were many other things as well, I think. One point for me certainly was, that the ideas were good, but the way they did it was bad (f.e. "Infernopolis").
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