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| Thread: Lore: Has magic ever been explained? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Adrius
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posted January 16, 2012 02:29 PM |
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Lore: Has magic ever been explained?
Yeah well... has it? Lore-wise?
I'm thinking of other games... e.g. the Elder Scrolls, where magic flows from the magical plane Aetherius into Mundus through rips in reality, granting magical power.
Are there any such explanations in the Ashan lore? Where does it come from? What is mana? Etc.
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Cepheus
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posted January 16, 2012 02:32 PM |
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In the older Might and Magic games, there are various implicit explanations given (depending on the world). But in Ashan, "a dragon did it".
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War-overlord
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posted January 16, 2012 02:51 PM |
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As much as I resent Cepheus undignified statement, that is the short of it.
In Ashan, magic is the manifestation of divinity or the tapping into that. Priests and Cultists of the various Gods are granted Magic, where Wizards and Magi have learnt to harness the inherent Magic of the divine creation.
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Adrius
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posted January 16, 2012 04:26 PM |
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Figured as much.
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blizzardboy
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posted January 16, 2012 05:59 PM |
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Yeah it's through the elemental dragons. For example, beastmen (minotaur, harpies, centaur, etc.) are unable to use magic because they aren't a direct creation of the dragons, so they don't have the link with the dragon's power that other creatures do.
Orcs are still able to use magic though even though they're a human-demon hybrid, which isn't explained. Maybe because they're a mix of two sapient races (human and demon) so they're still able to harness mystical spiritual dragon juice? As opposed to being a mix of a human and a dairy cow. I dunno.
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httassadar
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posted January 16, 2012 07:01 PM |
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Then why do Orcs lose the magic ability 400 years later?
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blizzardboy
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posted January 16, 2012 07:04 PM |
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It's just a lost art I guess.
I don't think the orcs ever completely evacuated the Pao Island either. They are still inhabited by orcs 400 years later, it's just that Heroes 5 focused on the orc tribes living in Ranaar.
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Nocturnal
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posted January 16, 2012 07:12 PM |
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Quote:
Yeah it's through the elemental dragons. For example, beastmen (minotaur, harpies, centaur, etc.) are unable to use magic because they aren't a direct creation of the dragons, so they don't have the link with the dragon's power that other creatures do.
So how are Wizards able to know every magic school while they don't worship any of the Dragons? Or were they created by all the elemental Dragons' together in a dragon orgy? Cause they know all of them.
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The_Polyglot
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posted January 16, 2012 07:38 PM |
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@Nocturnal: They are the Ashan equivalent of nerds, that's why. 
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Zenofex
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posted January 16, 2012 08:03 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:04, 16 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
So how are Wizards able to know every magic school while they don't worship any of the Dragons?
Lore explanation in line with Ashan's lore so far: because they can;
Lore explanation from the Dragons' point of view: because they cheat;
Lore explanation as I see it: because you need a faction with Titans.
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DagothGares
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posted January 16, 2012 08:05 PM |
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Well, they're still humans, so they should be able to magic it up.
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Dave_Jame
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posted January 16, 2012 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
Then why do Orcs lose the magic ability 400 years later?
This is not necessarily true
1st Point: The orcs in Heroes V and VI are not the same.
The orcs in Heroes V are from northen part of the continent -> The Ranaar steps
While the Orcs in Heroes VI are from the tropical Pao Islands.
When Orcs won their freedom they Migrated into 3 directions. North (Ranaar), East (Pao islands) and south (Unknown). Heroes V and Heroes VI are not the same kind.
2nd Point: Shamans can still cast spells in Heroes V, with similar effect like Shamans from Heroes VI. The Heroes V orcs could as well be able to use magic but decided to "Change the focus" of their warefare. Also Note that the commanders in Heroes V had with only one exception a very strong MIGHT feeling.
3rd Point: We have a good reason to belive that there are orcs still living on Pao islands even in the time of Heroes V, so there should have been another large migration of orcs. This reason can be found in the chronologicaly last game Dark Messiah were the "Hero" ventures onto an unknown island in the Jade sea (Pao is used in the cinematic but I think that should not be taken as a fact but a substitude) were he fights orcs from the "RED SKULL" clan that are guarding the island.
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Dave_Jame
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posted January 16, 2012 08:24 PM |
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Quote:
Yeah well... has it? Lore-wise?
I'm thinking of other games... e.g. the Elder Scrolls, where magic flows from the magical plane Aetherius into Mundus through rips in reality, granting magical power.
Are there any such explanations in the Ashan lore? Where does it come from? What is mana? Etc.
Now to the OP
The explanation "A Dragon did it" IS true to some point but not exactly. We know from game experience that gods are not often present in the material world. But we know that they dwell in Magical plains. along with other creatures like elementals.
From !!MY!! opinion, these plains are the sources of magically potent energy. This Energy can manifest itself in a certain way in the mortal world. For example creating such creatures like Elementals. The teaching of a God or his blessing gives a mortal races acces to this energy and the power to use it.
Mages on the other hand do not rely on divine help. They search and try to find out ways how to gain acces to the power of the spiritual raelms in different way. They do not study what the god has to offer, but how does he do it and how can he repeat it.
Also we should not forget the Dragon veins, rivers of dragon blood hiden under the surface of Ashan that are a source of the magical potential. The esence of creatures that were able to use the power and shape form to there will.
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baklava
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posted January 16, 2012 08:44 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 20:47, 16 Jan 2012.
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You can't have a valid explanation of magic because there is no magic and therefore the best you can ask from a fantasy setting isn't that much in how legit their quasi-science sounds as in how they pack it.
Just put War-Overlord's and Cepheus' descriptions one beside the other. They're identical. But WO's sounds cool.
Just like you saying
The Elder Scrolls, where magic flows from the magical plane Aetherius into Mundus through rips in reality, granting magical power.
And someone saying
There's magic in magicland and it sometimes leaks to the game world through magic holes.
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Cepheus
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posted January 16, 2012 08:59 PM |
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I was thinking of writing something like that, that there isn't even an onus to explain it, but I stopped myself mid-sentence after remembering about all the old elaborate, Arthur C. Clarke-esque descriptions of the Ancients and their scientific, technology-based "intangible conduits of incredible power" being mistaken for magic wells by the primitives we play as in the games. So the truth is that Ashan sort of is Teletubbyland when you put it in context with the whole series.
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blizzardboy
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posted January 16, 2012 09:24 PM |
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The wizards still draw their powers from the dragons, even though they don't worship them. It's the same way with the shamanistic orcs. People can also charge up on magical power though the leftover magical dragon juice on Ashan.
Ashan magic, as I know it, is more similar to the Chinese idea of "chi". The races are born with an "inner dragon" that they are able to manipulate and harness into power. They touch upon that a little bit in the story, so there isn't necessarily a need to worship a dragon in order to draw power from them. Most of the realms focus on the power of their patron dragon while also being moderately more might-oriented, as opposed to the wizards, that go for whatever.
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War-overlord
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posted January 16, 2012 09:30 PM |
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@ Cepheus: That is not realy a fair comparison if you think of the ammount of games the "old world" has had to get to that point. The "new world"(Ashan) has had far fewer installations to delve into that kind of thing. It is like comparing Seaworld to a home aquarium.
Concerning Orcs.
I agree with both Blizz and Dave that the Orcs of Heroes V and VI are not the same. As they said, those of V were Orcs from the Steppes of Ranaar, whereas the Orcs from VI are those of the Pao Islands.
And as Dave rightly pointed out that the Ranaar Orcs also have Shamans who were able to use magic.
However it explained how Orcs are able to use magic without adhering to a Dragoncult. The Shamen are able to transcend their bodies and enter the Dream/Spirit World which is a third plain, next to the physical and magical one, and very likely is the afterlife(or a halfway point of kinds) as the Shamen are able to communicate with their ancestors. On that "third plain" there are also far more powerfull God-like spirits, of which Father Sky and Mother Earth we know of. It is through these spirits that the Orc Shamen can draw (magical)power from the "third plain".(this is al explained and deducable from the info given in the Stronghold descriptions of Heroes VI) Orcs have also acces to a limited form of Demonic Magic, through Blood Rituals/Sacrifices. For this they draw upon their Demonic Blood, though the extent of that is less explained/deducable.
Concerning Beastmen.
Unlike the statement of Blizz, I have, so far, seen no evidence of beastmen not being able to use magic because of their undivine creation. It is true that so far there have been no Beastmen magicusers, but that alone is not enough to conclude that all Beastmen are incapable of magic.
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blizzardboy
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posted January 16, 2012 09:31 PM |
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I read about it somewhere that beastmen can't use magic because they weren't created by the dragons. It's canonical unless Ubi spontaneously changed their mind about it. All of the "beastman" are some hybrid of human and an animal though. Orcs and goblins are human and demon, which I guess makes them a little different. There's not an explanation for Father Sky or Mother Earth. Whether they're Urgash and Asha, something else, or nothing at all.
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Zenofex
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posted January 16, 2012 09:39 PM |
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Quote:
That is not realy a fair comparison if you think of the ammount of games the "old world" has had to get to that point.
That would be true if the explanation was given in Heroes IV/M&M IX but you sort of have it as early as the first Might & Magic games. If Ubisoft have some grand scheme in mind, they certainly hide it incredibly well. From what I've seen so far, it's rather obvious that their concept is "with a few hundred fantasy games out there with Magic(k)(s)(z)(a), they don't need yet another explanation for it. A supernatural s*** is what it is." Not happy? Welcome to Ashan.
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War-overlord
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posted January 16, 2012 09:44 PM |
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@ Blizz:
Where have you read it?
Also, it is stated in the Stronghold Faction Description here, that Mother Earth and Father Sky are two powerfull Spirits from the Dreamworld. It reads in the Dreamwalker description here and in the Shaman Descriptions here that Shamen are able to commune with their ancestors and use their advice and act as their medium. Also that the Shamen become attuned to either Mother Earth or Father Sky. Which leads to my explaination of Orc Magic. Admitedly Dreamworld and Spiritworld are often used ambiguously and could be the same or they could be two different things.
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