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| Thread: Magic schools and expansion factions | |
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frakel
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 26, 2012 11:59 PM |
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Edited by frakel at 00:00, 27 Jan 2012.
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Magic schools and expansion factions
What factions would you like to see in expansions, and what magic schools should they have access to?
Things to consider could be lore, gameplay, balance and overall distribution of magic schools.
The following is my take on this question – I´ve mostly considered what would fit with the lore:
Based on the ´Ashan Compendium´, I´m working from the assumption that future expansions will bring the Sylvan, Dungeon, Academy and Fortress factions back to the game.
This is how I imagine magic could be distributed:
The “primary” magic school of each faction is highlighted. This is the school of the magic hero damage type and many (but not all) creature abilities and damage types for that faction.
Sylvan:
I´d like to make the sylvan elves distinct from the Sanctuary faction (which is also focused on nature and the spirit world). Thus the sylvan has no access to light magic, but instead access to all four “classical” element. This enhances the “pagan”-flavor the sylvans got in H5. Since the Elves primary school is earth, one could argue that they shouldn’t have access to the opposite element air. But since Sylanna and Ylath doesn’t seem to be in opposition to one another I´d say that it is ok lorewise.
Dungeon:
When Tuidhanas followers turned from Sylanna to Malassa they abandoned earth magic and gained access to dark magic instead. Their magic has many damage and debuff spells, and their only “healing” is from the dark school. Dark and destructive as fits the dark elves.
Academy:
The dessert dwelling scholars of The Seven Cities has access to air, fire and light – fits the dessert theme. They also gain access to dark magic, to underline the point that they pay little respect to the dragon gods and dabble in dark arts and seek all kinds of forbidden knowledge. The necromancers did start as a subgroup of this faction after all. Others on this forum have suggested that Academy should have access to all seven magic schools. I think some limitations makes for more variety between factions and a more fun challenge. But to underline the special emphasis on “scholarly” magic in this faction, they should have “prime” as their primary magic school.
Fortress:
The dwarves of the frozen Grimheim Mountains combine the fire of their forges and their patron deity Arkath with the powers of ice and stone (water and earth). Though dwarves build their homes underground, they have also kept a reverence for the light that hold the shadows at bay, and brings back the sun in the long northern winter.
Total distribution:
Air magic is the most widely available school, while light and dark is the least available schools. To me this makes sense according to the lore, since Ylath doesn’t care much about worship (and thus is less restrictive), while Elrath and Malassa guard their powers more jealously and reserve them to their loyal followers. Only the wizards of the Academy has managed to gain access to both light and dark magic through their studies (and not through worship).
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 27, 2012 08:11 AM |
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Sylvan worshipping Fire makes no sense to me, nor for that matter Dungeon getting Air but not Earth, they're friggin' underground.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted January 27, 2012 09:35 AM |
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I SO second that. Especially since it would be a uniwue combination in your list.
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frakel
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 27, 2012 04:07 PM |
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Sylvan and fire:
- Haven worships light but has access to fire. Sylvan could have access to fire as well allthough their patron deity is Sylanna. The fire school has some nice spells, like burning determination, which underscores that there is indeed "a savage heart beating in the dark places of the forrest". Also, if you remove fire, what school will you put in its place? Dark magic doesnt fit and light magic makes the Sylvan a copy of Sanctuary...
Dungeon and air:
- You do have a point here, Im just really opposed to the Dungeon having access to earth magic after they turn from Sylanna. Perhabs one could argue, that while they do live underground they are not native to the underground? Another point could be, that the earth school has som healing and protections spells, while the air school has mostly damage and debuff spells. Somehow I find it more in the spirit of Dungeon to be able to cast lightning bolt rather than regeneration. The lack of access to earth and light makes the Dungeon magic variety especially aggressive...
Anyways this is just my take - anybody else has some suggestions on new factions and their magic?
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chaosfan
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 28, 2012 09:39 AM |
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The elves (dark and light) should have the same schools except for Light/Darkness. Best schools would be the Fire/Water/Earth trio as those are for now unrepresented. So Sylvan: Fire/Water/Earth/Light/Prime
and Dungeon the same except switch Light for Darkness, this would reflect their similarity while drawing a defining line between the two. Academy could be say Air due to their typical style of favoring ranged combat and being all air like and such, and then also have Light/Darkness/Prime a powerful trio which no other faction has. Those four will be enough for Academy. I'm really skeptical about Fortress even being added so I wont take guesses on them.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 28, 2012 11:52 AM |
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Actually, several aspects of this does make sense to me, and I think the main flaw is not so much with what Frakel suggests, but with what UbiSoft did with the existing factions. I think ideally each elemental school be represented the same number of times, and this becomes difficult to fit because of the association UbiSoft did with Haven or Inferno (where I see the problem).
About the new factions:
* It makes sense to give Sylvan all 4 elements and neither Dark nor Light. This represent some sort of harmony with the elements, which I like.
* It makes sense to give Academy both Light and Dark, that presents a neutrality in terms of Good and Evil. Air and Fire are pretty obvious fits also (they have floating citys in the desert, after all).
* Fortress has Light and Fire (obvious) and then Water (reasonable, not a lot of other factions have Water, plus it's a snowy setting, so Fire meets Water seems like a good theme). This leaves one element, either Air or Earth. Earth seems the most obvious pick.
* Dungeon has Dark (obvious) and Prime, and need a selection from the other elements. Earth seems a likely choice, but Earth is already taken by all the other factions save Academy. That leaves Air and Water, neither of which are perfect fits.
So going back to the original factions, there are a couple of questions:
* Inferno: Why do they need Earth? I mean, they are not even from the Ashan world but another plane, wouldn't that signify some none-earth association? But of course, Inferno can't have Water either.
* Haven: Why does Haven *not* have Water, but Air? After all, Humans abandoned Sylath, wouldn't that make them *not air*? But then again, even if we move Haven from Air to Water (which would make each element appear 7 times), that still doesn't fix the Dungeon problem (Dungeon wants Earth).
So on the bottom line, I guess I would remove Earth from Haven and add Water, and I would add Earth to Dungeon and remove Air (they are underground after all). That would make it look like this:
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What will happen now?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 28, 2012 12:29 PM |
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I think that's fairly reasonable, alc. For gaming balance it works fairly fine as well, as 7/9 factions can get only TWO of the three must-have healing spells (Regeneration, Heal/MassHeal, Life Drain).
Haven has only Light, but it has other ways to replenish losses and Stronghold, which has access to all three, misses out on Meditation to make their spells stronger and has no defaul healer, so it works imo.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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frakel
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 28, 2012 03:58 PM |
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Edited by frakel at 16:01, 28 Jan 2012.
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I think it is a nice setup as well Alcibiades. I like that there is a more even distribution of the elemental schools, 7/7/7/7/5/5. Also I think water fits Haven better than earth. Now I only wonder if Ubisoft will have the guts to change it...  . I made my chart on the assymption that they wouldnt change any existing faction, and thus I had to work within those limits. But honestly I like your finished table better than the one I made.
I also think you have a good point about importance of the healing spells Lexxan, but Im not sure I understand your counting... I get it to
1 faction (stronghold) with access to all three "healing" speels
6 factions with two out of three, and
2 factions with only one (Haven and Sylvan).
This might put Sylvan at a disadvantage, but perhabs their racial special can make up for it.
Cheers
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted January 28, 2012 05:24 PM |
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i think its reasonable to give Academy more magic schools then other faction.
yes it is disbalanced, but logically Academy should have access to all magic schools as they are specialized in all types of magic (lorwise at least)
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted January 28, 2012 05:31 PM |
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Agreed. They do devote most of their time studying magic after all. On the other hand, if they were going to have more access to magic, I would eliminate one of the might trees, to balance it out.
Additionally, given the Stronghold has always been a more might oriented faction, I would limit its magic access to Air, Fire, Earth, and Water.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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