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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Timeline? Story synopsis?
Thread: Timeline? Story synopsis? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 21, 2012 12:11 PM

I agree with you Dave-Jame in that Dwarves and Naga are hidden in their own realms, but I also feel that the timeline was created during and mainly for the vanilla Heroes V game (with exception of Orcs) when dwarves/naga were not independant factions yet (dwarves were a unit in nature faction, naga a unit in wizard faction, etc)...

Any timeline should be able to tell any detail regardless of how unknown some factions are, it's a timeline, so it's not told from someone's perspective, it's a cumulative all-encompassing perspective (I mean who knows about the mythic age and how the cosmic egg came about in the beginning?)

There should be stories in the timeline for Dwarves and Naga and how they were created and came about....


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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted May 21, 2012 05:12 PM
Edited by Avonu at 17:17, 21 May 2012.

They are... sort of. Here you have some lore from newsletters, published after Farmers of Hate were released:

Quote:
The dwarves have coalesced from a series of scattered clans into a mighty nation, capable of defending itself against all enemies. Children of the Dragon of Fire, they worshipped him in the deep places of the world where magma provided the only light, and in return they were taught the secrets of the forge and the hearth.

At first, the other races were not even aware of the dwarves. Not until the Wars of Fire (28-41 ASD), when the dwarven warbands joined with the others to resist the demons, were they recognized. Once the fighting was over, they returned to their homes under the mountains and had little to do with the other races for centuries. Slowly tunnels were dug between the various dwarven cities, connecting then into a honeycomb deep beneath the earth.

All that changed when the first Dark Elves settled on the dwarves  borders. A steadily deteriorating situation turned into the War Under the Mountain, in which the dwarves, led by Hathor Deepstrider Orlandsson, crushed the Dark Elves and drove them out. The Dark Elf dwelling places were collapsed, and the dwarves considered their borders secure.

Today, the dwarves still keep a watchful vigilance up. They watch their borders, and no one moves on their lands unseen. They befriend a precious few, and expand their kingdom carefully.

Note that most of dwarven history is actively hidden from the rest of the world. The dwarves have lengthy sagas, eddas, and histories concerning their deeds, wars, and adventures, but these are not shared with the outside world. The things they have seen and battles they have fought within their own domain remain mysterious, at least for now.

The Characters

Arkath
The Dragon of Fire, Dwarven Diety.

Hathor Deepstrider Orlandsson
The leader of the Dwarves during the "War Under the Mountain".

Tolghar
The current Dwarven "king of kings", part of the Grimsteel clan.


"not shared with the outside world" - it's probably Ubisoft's: "we didn't create yet their backstory".


Quote:
How come the Dwarves do not show up in Heroes 5 or in Dark Messiah?
By Jeff Spock, Writer, and Erwan Le Breton, World Coordinator.

Well, there's a quick and dirty answer for Dark Messiah, and there's a longer, richer one for Heroes 5.

For DM: The reason is basically geographic. Stonehelm and Redskull Island are far removed not merely from the Dwarves but from all of the nations that appeared in Heroes 5.
The two games are part of the same world and the same storyline (the Dark Messiah Cycle), however, so it is inevitable that all these different elements will collide at some point in the future...

For H5: The reason for their "non-intervention" in the War of the Gray Alliance (which ended with the death of King Alexei, Nicolai's father) and, 18 years later, Queen Isabel's War (the events of Heroes 5), has to do with the current political attitudes of the Dwarves. They're ruled by a worried and pliable king -- Tolghar -- who is manipulated by a conservative and xenophobic counselor -- Hangvul. As far as Hangvul is concerned, the Griffin Empire and the Demons and the Elves can all go rot. His job is to secure the Dwarven homeland, not mess about in other people's affairs. He believes quite strongly that any Demon invasion of his homeland would be met with a substantial ass-kicking, and as a result is content to glower behind his mountains in isolation while the horned heretics and the long-legged foreigners kill each other off. But there is always a risk, as with any nation that tries to insulate itself from world events, that external forces may bring the Dwarves out of their isolation whether they want it or not.



And here is something about Naga faction from HVI. Too bad there isn't much more details about Sanctuary right now:

Quote:
At the end of the Mythic Age, Asha, wounded and cursed with nightmares by her brother Urgash, needed help from her children in order to heal. The only one among them able to soothe her was Malassa, the Dragon of Darkness. The encounter was kept secret, and took place deep within a deserted island amongst the Naga archipelago. While Shalassa brought her sacred waters forth to cleanse and purify Asha, Malassa drained the nightmares from her mother. These nightmares, a reflection of Asha's agony, became a separate entity, the Mother of the Namtarus.
Alerted by the darkness of this stain, Shalassa, the Dragon of Water, created a sarcophagus in order to contain its blight. This sarcophagus became a Naga temple where, in order to keep the creature from growing, Shalassa inspired the creation of a staff that would regularly purify the nightmarish aura that seeps from the grotto: the Staff of Cleansing.


Quote:
One of the strangest creatures to walk, or rather, scuttle the face of Ashan, the Mother Namtaru is a half-spiritual, half-physical incarnation of the nightmares of Asha, the Primordial Dragon of Order.
Like her lesser reflections the Namtarus, she takes the form of a giant spider-woman hybrid, an aspect often associated with the deadly facet of Asha. Her three heads also echo Asha, who reigns over the three spheres of Life, Death, and Fate.
Although held captive for hundreds of years by the Nagas, since her rescue by the Necromancers it is not vengeance, but a scared oath to protect the cycle of life and death that seemingly drives the Mother Namtaru's actions.
Worshipped by the Necromancers, who use her sacred venom to create their most powerful Vampire Lords among their own ranks, she regularly counsels her devotees through whisper, rhyme, and even dream.
Her powers are so great that they place her almost on the level of the six Elemental Dragons.


Quote:
Peaceful peoples, uniting the Naga and other worshipers of the Dragon of Water, the people of Hashima (Sanctuary) have lived on the fringes of continental politics -- partly on distant islands, partly in the waters. They were recently brought to the front stage of world affairs when a Necromancer army liberated the Mother Namtaru from one of their island prisons. The Mother Namtaru had been entrusted to their guardianship for over a millennia by the three dragon daughters of Asha. The Naga recognize the power of this newest of factions, but are confused as to their purpose. The upcoming demonic invasion seems to them to be a good moment to test the motivations of all nations, as they unite in a battle to save the world.


As you can see above, naga faction is probably the oldest of all of them.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 22, 2012 08:12 AM

The 6 elemental dragons, and thus the elder races, were all created at the same time by Asha with particular reference to Elves in the Elder Wars between the Angels and Faceless in the Ancient Age.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted May 22, 2012 10:42 AM
Edited by Avonu at 10:47, 22 May 2012.

Yes, they were but not as (current) factions.

Haven was created in 3 YSS after Brian Falcon united all human tribes.
Inferno was "created" in 41 YSS after Sar-Elam sealed demons in Sheogh.
Academy was created in 62 YSS after Schism of Seven.
Necropolis was "created" in 461 YSS when Belketh (re)discovered Necromancy from part of Sar-Elam's manuscript.
Sylvan was created (as Kingdom of Irollan) between 50-260 YSS.
Dark Elves were "created" in 540 YSS but first Dungeons appeared in 586 YSS.
Stronghold was "created" in 467-470 YSS when Orcs escaped their masters.

Before that, there were skycities of Angels, underground temples of Faceless and ancient Shantiri Empire, where Humans, Elves, Dwarves and probably even some of Naga lived together. Then Demons decided to bring down Angels' cities and next Angels decided to get rid off Faceless... and Shantiri Empire was destroyed by the way and all races scattered... again.

Same happening was before - when Asha and Urgash decided to end their conflict on Ashan. They destoyed much of landscape and if there were some kingdoms before, they were probably destroyed too... and new arised in Ancient Age.


Quote:
The 6 elemental dragons, and thus the elder races, were all created at the same time by Asha

Not really... as you can read in Haven second mission (Anton quest where you fight elementals), Elrath and Malassa were first born of all Elemental Dragons. And I am still not sure if it was Asha who created mortal races or that were her Elemental children (some texts say she, some that them).

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 22, 2012 11:50 AM

I disagree, you must follow the genuine site of the timeline as done by Ubisoft creators....

The elder races were created by Asha to worship their elemental dragons, this all happened at the same time. Urgash got jealous of the elder races thus came about the demon creations (during the Mythic age)...

All the factions got created at the same time (apart form Orcs), for example, you say the Dark Elves got created in 540 YSD, but this was when their independance was recognised, not their creation, they got created along with the elder races when Malassa "needed" to be worshipped.

The orcs actually got created in 330 YSD.....when the Wizards played around with demon blood.....

Your only correct info is Necromancy which was created in 461 YSD...


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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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posted May 22, 2012 12:05 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 12:11, 22 May 2012.

Quote:
The 6 elemental dragons, and thus the elder races, were all created at the same time by Asha with particular reference to Elves in the Elder Wars between the Angels and Faceless in the Ancient Age.

This fact is wrong
The 6 elemental dragons were not created at the same time.
Malassa and Elratch are the oldest ones and Ylath is the youngest of them (see dragongod descriptions on the oficial page in the archive).
Humans were the youngest race devoted to Ylath so it can be, that they are the younger then the Faceless and Angels, and even younger then the Elves Dwarves and Naga.

Quote:
All the factions got created at the same time (apart form Orcs), for example, you say the Dark Elves got created in 540 YSD, but this was when their independance was recognised, not their creation, they got created along with the elder races when Malassa "needed" to be worshipped.

And this is where you are wrong again. The Dark elves (DE) were created when normal elves  under the lead of Thiudane rebeld against their king and in need of aid came to one of the faceless who gave them power to protect themselves from the Elven and Human invaders.
The original whorshipers of Malassa were the Faceless they were the ones created to whorship her. The DE were crerated aprox. 540 YSD.
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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted May 22, 2012 01:39 PM
Edited by Avonu at 13:40, 22 May 2012.

DoubleDeck

There is difference between a race (Human, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Nagas, Demons) and a faction (Haven, Academy, Necropolis, Inferno, Stronghold, Sanctuary, etc.). I was speaking about factions and their origin in timeline, not about races themselves.

Now for the rest, did you even read timeline?

Quote:
3 YSD: Birth of the Falcon Empire
Falcon the Great unifies the human kingdoms (founding the empire that will one day become the Haven faction). The Seventh Dragon prophesies that the Falcon line shall endure as long as the world does.


Quote:
62 YSD: The Schism of the Seven
Founding of the Dragon knights, the Blind Brothers, and the Seven Cities
Schism between the disciples of Sar-Elam, who can't agree on the best way to follow the road laid down by the Seventh Dragon and, hopefully someday surpass him. Sar-Antor founds the Blind Brothers, a congregation of healers, seers and embalmers dedicated to the worship of Asha. Sar-Badon founds the Dragon Knights, a martial order disciplined in both body and mind.
The other disciples, led by Sar-Shazzar, the most gifted of them all, lead an exodus of wizards and like-minded humans to found the Seven Cities (the first kingdom of Magic) in the southern deserts.


Quote:
540 YSD: War of the Bitter Ashes; birth of the Dark Elves
War between the Elves of Irollan and the Human Knights of the Holy Falcon Empire, with Tuidhana's kingdom as their main battlefield. Her territory under attack from both sides, Tuidhana makes a pact with the Faceless for the power to protect her people. Those who follow her are changed by the blessing of Malassa, Dragon of Darkness. From this day on, they will be known as the Dark Elves. With the support of their new allies, they will expel both the Elves and the Humans from their land.


Quote:
586 YSD: Establishment of the Second Dark Elf kingdom on the borders of Dwarf territory
Relations between the two kingdoms are strained at best.



Quote:
The elder races were created by Asha to worship their elemental dragons, this all happened at the same time.

Not really:
Quote:
The world of Ashan was created by the mother dragon and goddess called Asha. Since the dawn of time, however, she has been challenged by the powers of her sibling, the dragon Urgash, scion of Chaos. He seeks to undo or conquer all that Asha built and holds precious. To aid her in creating and protecting her world, Asha created six dragons that tend the physical plane of existence. Each of them is tied to an aspect or element (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water as well as Light and Dark), and each of them created races in their own image to cultivate Ashan and worship their creators.


But as I said before, some texts suggest that it was Asha, who created them (in timeline the races are simply described as "were created" without mention who did that).


And don't forget that HVI retcon some events from previous games (like for example Blade of Binding story).

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 22, 2012 02:41 PM

@Dave_Jame & Avonu -> Sorry, you guys are right.....

Still think Asha created Ashan and therefore everything else in it (elemental dragons, the elder races, etc.)



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Adrius
Adrius


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Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted May 22, 2012 02:57 PM
Edited by Adrius at 15:11, 22 May 2012.

Who was the cosmic ultra dragon who laid the egg that became Asha and Urgash then?
____________

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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posted May 22, 2012 03:02 PM

Quote:
And don't forget that HVI retcon some events from previous games (like for example Blade of Binding story).

What has beenn retconed on the Blade of binding story?
The only retcon I know about is not even oficial....
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 23, 2012 08:02 AM

Quote:
Who was the cosmic ultra dragon who laid the egg that became Asha and Urgash then?

It wsan't a dragon, it was......THE VOID!

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Avonu
Avonu


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Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted May 23, 2012 07:53 PM
Edited by Avonu at 20:00, 23 May 2012.

Dave Jame
From CoH intro:

Quote:
During the previous Demon war, a powerful artifact known as the Blade of Binding was created. The Blade gave its wielder the power to bind Demons to his will. Yet when it fell into the hands of Demon lords, much damage was wrought and much that was good, was undone.
When the Demons were vanquished, the Blade was given to a handful of allies for safekeeping. These families of elven, human, and wizardly descent swore to guard and protect this dangerous object. And yet,those who coveted its power never ceased their efforts to take it back...

CoH takes place 40 years before HV and previous Demon war was Fourth Eclipse, when ruling Falcon dynasty was slaughtered and Griffins took the empty throne.

It's not bad thing, that HVI changed Blade of Binding history, because it adds some nice details about but anyway HVI did retcon it story - good or bad.
Same thing happened with Hashima for example - earlier, in first drafts, it supposed to be land East of Ashan, now Hashima has the same location as Temple Island from Dark Messiah.
And as far as I know, there are also some retcons with Orcs Crusades and Creation of the Beastmen.



Adrius
If you wanted to know the answer to "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?", them in Ashan it was the egg.
IIRC there are some mythologies in our world where universe begins from the egg.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted May 24, 2012 01:48 AM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 01:51, 24 May 2012.

Quote:
Dave Jame
From CoH intro:

Quote:
During the previous Demon war, a powerful artifact known as the Blade of Binding was created. The Blade gave its wielder the power to bind Demons to his will. Yet when it fell into the hands of Demon lords, much damage was wrought and much that was good, was undone.
When the Demons were vanquished, the Blade was given to a handful of allies for safekeeping. These families of elven, human, and wizardly descent swore to guard and protect this dangerous object. And yet,those who coveted its power never ceased their efforts to take it back...

CoH takes place 40 years before HV and previous Demon war was Fourth Eclipse, when ruling Falcon dynasty was slaughtered and Griffins took the empty throne.

It's not bad thing, that HVI changed Blade of Binding history, because it adds some nice details about but anyway HVI did retcon it story - good or bad.
Same thing happened with Hashima for example - earlier, in first drafts, it supposed to be land East of Ashan, now Hashima has the same location as Temple Island from Dark Messiah.
And as far as I know, there are also some retcons with Orcs Crusades and Creation of the Beastmen.



Adrius
If you wanted to know the answer to "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?", them in Ashan it was the egg.
IIRC there are some mythologies in our world where universe begins from the egg.


I do not really see most of these as retcons
1: Hashima and DM: DM did not have a unique map like other games so they used any island they had. I even think they used the Pao islands. and do not forget that there are many islands in the jade sea. So they just used an example
2: The blade of binding. The COH story of the blade says how dangerous the blade is, But in Heroes VI you do not get the blade until the end of the campaigne where it cant do such a legendary damage, especialy when fighting a Secreat enemy. So the legend of the blade can come from a later eclipse.
Keep in mind that most of what we know is refered to us by Humons and is limited to their knowladge
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 24, 2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Adrius
If you wanted to know the answer to "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?", them in Ashan it was the egg.
IIRC there are some mythologies in our world where universe begins from the egg.

Disagree:
Chicken -> egg
Void -> cosmic egg

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Avonu
Avonu


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Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted May 24, 2012 01:01 PM
Edited by Avonu at 13:01, 24 May 2012.

Dave Jame
Blade of Binding is just an example of retcons in HVI, you don't need to explain to me, how it can be tied lorewise.

And Dark Messiah has its own map. Doesn't Temple Island reminds you something?
There is also another map of Ashan in Dark Messiah... and it is in-game in Arantir's ship IIRC.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted May 24, 2012 01:05 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 13:34, 24 May 2012.

Quote:
Dave Jame
Blade of Binding is just an example of retcons in HVI, you don't need to explain to me, how it can be tied lorewise.

And Dark Messiah has its own map. Doesn't Temple Island reminds you something?
There is also another map of Ashan in Dark Messiah... and it is in-game in Arantir's ship IIRC.

Link does not work.
But I recall that the map used in DM was only grayed out map from heroes V

And the orc thing is not official yet as I know.. most of the ingame description in HVI are styll accurate to the original example

Found it directly on Acid cave.. styl I think it is just a remade map used because they did not have a true original map for the game. The landscape is styl very similar, and also the icons of the cities.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Sligneris
Sligneris


Supreme Hero
posted March 03, 2015 09:36 AM
Edited by Sligneris at 09:37, 03 Mar 2015.

Shameless necroposting, I know.

Still, the temple island is marked incorrectly on that DM map.

Redskull Island is one of the smaller islands, not the biggest one. You can see it here.

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