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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 09, 2014 01:21 AM |
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If your community is bad enough, you would be trying to annihilate it. Also, "fighting for your community" usually means fighting in a cooperative way, in a way that the community wants.
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"The impersonality of market society, which has been the object of wide criticism, and at the root of charges of anomie and alienation in modern life, is instead the basis of the fundamental liberation it affords. Men and women are freed from the need to establish more particular bonds, whether these be affective or coercive, in order to interact beneficially... Against the market background of mutual unconcern, particular human relationships of trust and affection may flourish on a voluntary basis. Those who hanker after the close-knit relationships of other and earlier forms of human society are in effect seeking to flee from the freedom to choose the persons in whose interests they will take an interest." - David Gauthier
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 09, 2014 06:35 PM |
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Quote:
If your community is bad enough, you would be trying to annihilate it.
I don't think those were the kind of people your quote was praising, I think it was rather referring to visionaries beyond their time, people like ML King or the suffragettes.
And what a sad misconception of freedom I might add, it's like advising not to eat to prevent tummy ache.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 10, 2014 05:24 PM |
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Guess it belongs more in "gay rights" thread but, for my safety, here is:
No one has a right to do that which, if everybody did it, would destroy society.
Immanuel Kant
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted February 10, 2014 05:26 PM |
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"Blessed are the curious, for they shall have adventures." - Loyelle Drachman
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2014 10:00 PM |
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OmegaDestroyer said:
"Blessed are the curious, for they shall have adventures." - Loyelle Drachman
this is very true.
"The same energy of character which renders a man a daring villain would have rendered him useful in society, had that society been well organized."
-Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 26, 2014 11:53 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 00:16, 27 Feb 2014.
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The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men. - Ayn Rand
I'm looking for a similar Randish quote which goes something like "Man, not men, *something something dark side liberty*"
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 27, 2014 01:15 AM |
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I think Mvass shared this one, too, in the past. Ayn Rand fits him perfectly anyway. The problem with this quote, as stylish as it is, privacy is an important aspect of civilization but civilization is not built on or based on privacy. That's like saying an elephant is his trunk, he doesnt even stand on it.
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 27, 2014 03:08 AM |
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At first, Man was enslaved by the gods. But he broke their chains. Then he was enslaved by the kings. But he broke their chains. He was enslaved by his birth, by his kin, by his race. But he broke their chains.
He declared to all his brothers that a Man has rights which neither god nor king nor other men can take away from him, no matter what their number, for his is the right of Man, and there is no right on earth above this right. And he stood on the threshold of freedom for which the blood of the centuries behind him had been spilled.
And then he nodded and said, alright, what do we do now.
And all went silent.
And his brothers proclaimed they weren't exactly sure.
Any ideas, Randal? Plumber inquired.
But Randal was quiet.
How about you, Atlas?
Atlas shrugged.
We've never quite expected we'll get this far, really - Teacher admitted. We always thought of it as a, you know, an allegory about...
What's an allegory, Plumber asked.
Like a metaphor, Teacher explained. But bigger.
So what do we do now, then? Plumber asked.
How should I bloody know, Teacher proclaimed. I'm a Teacher.
Well, so much for your pinko allegories, Plumber remarked.
And there was much shouting. But then Man broke the chains of shouting and soon enough, a spectre was haunting Man - the spectre of uncomfortable silence.
Then Man declared to all his brothers that they should probably ask somebody.
Baklava,
"An essay on taking Ayn Rand and Marx too seriously"
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted February 27, 2014 03:35 AM |
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Quote:
Guess it belongs more in "gay rights" thread but, for my safety, here is:
No one has a right to do that which, if everybody did it, would destroy society.
Immanuel Kant
But my girlfriend only sleeps with me and, if everybody on the planet only slept with me, people would have trouble waiting for their turn and there'd be humongous traffic congestion wherever I go. I suppose guys could get masks with my face on them or even take it as far as plastic surgery in order to sleep with girls, but they wouldn't be interested in sleeping with girls, would they, since everybody would only want to sleep with me. All my friends would be gay for me, and on top of it all, I still live with my parents.
Luckily, my girl never was much of a Kant fan.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 27, 2014 04:06 AM |
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"It's so natural to think that if your enemies are as ruthless as the Tsars and their goons, you need to be as ruthless as the Bolsheviks to fight them. But we all know how that worked out, and it hardly seems to be an outlier; rather, it seems to be the norm for those willing to sink to their opponents' level. If the goal is victory for our cause, and not just victory for some people who find it convenient to claim to be cheerleaders for our cause, we need to be very careful that our tactics are not training up Stalins within our ranks." - commenter on LessWrong
"[T]he beginning and the greatest good is prudence. Wherefore prudence is a more precious thing even than philosophy: for from prudence are sprung all the other virtues, and it teaches us that it is not possible to live pleasantly without living prudently and honorably and justly, nor, again, to live a life of prudence, honor, and justice without living pleasantly. For the virtues are by nature bound up with the pleasant life, and the pleasant life is inseparable from them." - Epicurus
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Eccentric Opinion
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 27, 2014 08:51 PM |
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"I don't wanna change the world.
I just wanna live it colder."
Breaking Benjamin
"The believe in reincarnation is another kind of procrastination."
Chuck Palahniuk
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 08:29 PM |
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"Some topic on this site years ago discussed a writer who suggested using one's family and particularly one's children as an anchor to one’s course in life; if you had chosen differently, you would not have the children you do now, which would be bad since you love your children for being exactly what they are. And another commenter, I think, responded accurately when they said that this is akin to a person who says 'I'm glad that I hate spinach, because if I didn't, I would eat it, and I can't stand the stuff.'" - commenter on LessWrong
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 08:40 PM |
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artu said:
I think Mvass shared this one, too, in the past. Ayn Rand fits him perfectly anyway. The problem with this quote, as stylish as it is, privacy is an important aspect of civilization but civilization is not built on or based on privacy. That's like saying an elephant is his trunk, he doesnt even stand on it.
What is civilization built on?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 08:52 PM |
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Not discussing things in threads made for quotes, mainly.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2014 09:05 PM |
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xerox said:
artu said:
I think Mvass shared this one, too, in the past. Ayn Rand fits him perfectly anyway. The problem with this quote, as stylish as it is, privacy is an important aspect of civilization but civilization is not built on or based on privacy. That's like saying an elephant is his trunk, he doesnt even stand on it.
What is civilization built on?
Most of all, production. When the way a society produces things change, everything related (morals, art, law, philosophy) changes. The kind of individualism you seem to put in the center, for example, does not exist before the capitalist entrepreneur.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 09:13 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 21:14, 01 Mar 2014.
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I know, that is one of the reasons liberal individualists love capitalism. So the more a society produces (the higher GDP it has?), the more civilized it becomes?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2014 09:15 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:16, 01 Mar 2014.
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No, how it produces determines the qualities of its civilization.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 09:22 PM |
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So a country which produces things with robots and 3D printers is more civilized than country where things are produced by peasants under feudal lords because the first way of production is more efficient?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2014 09:30 PM |
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Dude, it's not just about efficiency, in agricultural society, decades after decades you produce your food by same methods of farming. so, here comes respect for the elderly (has more experience in the same task), obeying to your parents, dislike of change and discomfort around curiousity. In industrial city, tools of production change every decade and plus people live longer due to better nutrition. Senior citizens' know-how quickly becomes obsolete, here comes praise to youth, dynamism, respect to choice of the individual... Just a routine example among thousands.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 09:36 PM |
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But if that increased efficiency of production inevitabely leads to the societal changes you mention, then isn't that a reasonable measure of civilization?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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