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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 01, 2014 09:40 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:41, 01 Mar 2014.
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It creates a qualitative difference, of course. But I don't exactly get what you mean by measure? It's not so computeresque like "this society is civilization level 2 and that society is civilization level 6."
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 01, 2014 09:49 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 21:50, 01 Mar 2014.
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More like using GDP per capita, which measures production by efficiency, we can determinate that Australia with a GDP per capita of 67,000$ is more civilized than Congo, which has a GDP per capita of 231$ because of the societal changes Australia's superior efficency of production has led to.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 02, 2014 10:49 AM |
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The more one thinks, the more vulnerable he becomes to the traps of his own mind.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 02, 2014 02:33 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 15:26, 02 Mar 2014.
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DagothGares said: I'd prefer this thread to have more quotes than discussion about them. No need to say, any and all contributions are desired and entirely welcome.
- Life without knowledge is death in disquise
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 02, 2014 02:55 PM |
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Baklava said:
Quote: Guess it belongs more in "gay rights" thread but, for my safety, here is:
No one has a right to do that which, if everybody did it, would destroy society.
Immanuel Kant
But my girlfriend only sleeps with me and, if everybody on the planet only slept with me, people would have trouble waiting for their turn and there'd be humongous traffic congestion wherever I go. I suppose guys could get masks with my face on them or even take it as far as plastic surgery in order to sleep with girls, but they wouldn't be interested in sleeping with girls, would they, since everybody would only want to sleep with me. All my friends would be gay for me, and on top of it all, I still live with my parents.
Luckily, my girl never was much of a Kant fan.
No, no! It's good! It means we'd also be rid vegans and politicians as well.
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Living time backwards
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 02, 2014 03:56 PM |
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There will be plenty of time to sleep once you are dead.
- Benjamin Franklin
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 07, 2014 10:36 PM |
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"Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production." - Adam Smith
"Straw Vulcanism is bunk - there's no logical proof that enjoying music is wrong, and there are plenty of logical arguments that if something makes you happy, you should do it. If I had to guess where the trope came from, it would be that scientists and logical people tend to seem unreasonably interested in things that can be quantified - like joules of energy, grams of sodium, billions of dollars of debt, and number of shoes produced per worker - but only because these are easy to analyze. But moving from 'these things are easiest to analyze' to 'and therefore analytical people will loathe everything else' makes about as much sense as expecting geometers to denounce everything not perfectly spherical, or physicists to hatch a plot to expel Earth's atmosphere into space and eliminate air resistance." - Scott Alexander, Against Dystopias
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Eccentric Opinion
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 08, 2014 08:37 PM |
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“People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that’s what everyone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that is holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life. A true soul mate is probably the most important person you’ll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then leave. A soul mates purpose is to shake you up, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light can get in, make you so desperate and out of control that you have to transform your life…” ~ Elizabeth Gilbert
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 14, 2014 10:49 AM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 10:50, 14 Mar 2014.
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"My family is a gift from the almighty
...which is a fine thing since I certainly would not have paid for them."
- Phil & Kaja Foglio
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2014 04:32 AM |
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"Those who would condemn the supplanting of one culture by another as 'cultural genocide' would seem to prefer that human beings serve as live museum pieces in an unending re-enactment of past roles, rather than that they be freed to participate in the course of human development." - David Gauthier
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Eccentric Opinion
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 18, 2014 05:30 AM |
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mvassilev said: "Those who would condemn the supplanting of one culture by another as 'cultural genocide' would seem to prefer that human beings serve as live museum pieces in an unending re-enactment of past roles, rather than that they be freed to participate in the course of human development." - David Gauthier
lol, that's all humanity is: "live museum pieces in an unending re-enactment of past roles".
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 19, 2014 07:09 PM |
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"The end does justify the means. This is obvious with even a few seconds' thought, and the fact that the phrase has become a byword for evil is a historical oddity rather than a philosophical truth.
Hollywood has decided that this should be the phrase Persian-cat-stroking villains announce just before they activate their superlaser or something. But the means that these villains usually employ is killing millions of people, and the end is subjugating Earth beneath an iron-fisted dictatorship. Those are terrible means to a terrible end, so of course it doesn't end up justified.
Next time you hear that phrase, instead of thinking of a villain activating a superlaser, think of a doctor giving a vaccination to a baby. Yes, you're causing pain to a baby and making her cry, which is kinda sad. But you're also preventing that baby from one day getting a terrible disease, so the end justifies the means. If it didn't, you could never give any vaccinations.
If you have a really important end and only mildly unpleasant means, then the end justifies the means. If you have horrible means that don’t even lead to any sort of good end but just make some Bond villain supreme dictator of Earth, then you're in trouble - but that's hardly the fault of the end never justifying the means." - Scott Alexander
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 19, 2014 07:51 PM |
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That's completely situational and can not be generalized at all. It's not only about what the end is, it's also about what the means is. Is it okay to execute every single Nazi to wipe out Nazism from the world? Is it okay to secretly wire every private telephone call to prevent terrorism or organized crime? Is it okay to outlaw alcohol, cigarettes or drugs to make people live healthier? Is it okay to indoctrinate children with lies of after-life to ease the anxiety and fear of death? Is it okay to assassinate certain mafia lords or dictators? Is it okay to assassinate some corporation owners for a wealthier society then?
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 19, 2014 08:20 PM |
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Mvass understands the quote differently, I believe. ^^
But I think we should respect the thread maker and not discuss it here, rather make a new thread for it, if it's an interesting subject.
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Living time backwards
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 26, 2014 12:17 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:26, 26 Mar 2014.
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Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations.
-George Orwell
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 26, 2014 12:23 PM |
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I have beaten 40 wise scholars with only one proof, I could not beat an ignorant fool with 40 pieces of proof. - Imam Shafi, 8th Century A.D.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 26, 2014 03:48 PM |
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Artu, those are examples of bad ends, much like the example of the Bond supervillain. Sure, one good end is produced, but so are many bad ends, and the saying is "the ends justify the means", not "one good end means all the bad ends don't matter".
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Eccentric Opinion
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 26, 2014 03:51 PM |
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mvassilev said: Artu, those are examples of bad ends, much like the example of the Bond supervillain. Sure, one good end is produced, but so are many bad ends, and the saying is "the ends justify the means", not "one good end means all the bad ends don't matter".
lol, mvass, i really don't think you can be the one to call this one out. your outlook of godlike-humanity vs. everything-else-in-the-universe denies you this.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 26, 2014 04:01 PM |
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mvassilev said: Artu, those are examples of bad ends, much like the example of the Bond supervillain. Sure, one good end is produced, but so are many bad ends, and the saying is "the ends justify the means", not "one good end means all the bad ends don't matter".
Wrong, they are not bad ends, they have ALSO bad results as side effects or inevitably violate principles that would eventually cause bad results in the future. "The end justify the means" focuses on your primary goal, indicating those side effects are some sacrifice that is worth "the end" which is the main objective. Wiping out Nazism or preventing crime etc etc are not bad ends themselves. The phrase is used in situations exactly like that where there is a moral dilemma.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 26, 2014 04:46 PM |
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No, artu, "the ends justify the means" means all the ends, not just one particular end. Wiping out Nazism is a good end, but killing innocent people (even if they're Nazis) is not, and you can't ignore all but one of the ends. "The ends justify the means" is just a simpler and more aesthetic way to say "the rightness of an action is determined by its consequences".
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Eccentric Opinion
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