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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Gamescom'12
Thread: Gamescom'12 This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 07, 2012 10:25 AM

And I think my point is that this "add-on" will include only minor and cosmetic changes if this DLC is the measurment of what Limbic can do with their current resources.
And where are the money supposed to come from if not from Ubisoft? Isn't that the main problem? Sure, if Ubisoft pays Limbic enough, they may expand their team, work on additional features and so on and ultimately come up with a great expansion. But why didn't they pay Black Hole to do the same thing in the first place and what reasons do I have to believe that they will do it now?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 07, 2012 10:52 AM

So you think the DLCs should have add-on quality?

If they sold a DLC "Half a dozen neutral creatures for only 4,99 €", wouldn't you complain about this milking strategy?

Would it satisfy you if they sold the content of an add-on worth 20 € piecemeal via 10 DLCs, each costing 4,99 €?

And about Ubisoft and BH - since Ubisoft isn't dropping H6 altogether, but taking steps to continue working on it, they obviously thought, further cooperation with BH might be counter-productive, for whatever the reason, so they terminated their working relationship.

Remember, there were problems with Nival as well, but with them they kept things going until the end, even though the vanilla game was late as well (and in a sorry state at release), and in the end they got a fine product. It looks like that perspective was non-existing now.
There is no reason to assume that Ubisoft will not fund further work on H6, and as far as I know Erwan has already announced that there will be an addon.

However, we are now 16 months beyond the original release date, and the game is STILL in need of a lot of patching - that has to be done as well, and from what I understand, verification and testing process for the patches is rather complicated and prone to the introduction of new bugs.

You might say the game is difficult to handle - and has been for BH as well, mind you.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 07, 2012 11:05 AM

Quote:
And I think my point is that this "add-on" will include only minor and cosmetic changes if this DLC is the measurment of what Limbic can do with their current resources.
And where are the money supposed to come from if not from Ubisoft? Isn't that the main problem? Sure, if Ubisoft pays Limbic enough, they may expand their team, work on additional features and so on and ultimately come up with a great expansion. But why didn't they pay Black Hole to do the same thing in the first place and what reasons do I have to believe that they will do it now?


Sorry but from this I have the feeling that you saw a brick and sudanly you know all about how hauses are made. Try to see the DLCs as a form of practice and exercise. Do not taky it as a guidline. It is funny how people now say what an expansion should look but the only thing that has ever met these demands was ToE and partialy HoF. Befor that it was only maps, artifacts, some creatures, map objects and a campaigne (whit one exeption af an controversial faction)
So out of 7 expansions we had in heroes, only 2 could be seen as expansions, and the only reason why HoF could be seen as one is the new necromancy system that was introduced at the time it came out.  

And For your question about why did Ubi not pay BH? Well from my point of view. As an investor, if you see that project you have invested in is problematic, would you invest more money into it and risk to lose all of it. Or would you first loke how the project is doing and the deside to invest more or not. I know what I would do, and I think I know what Ubi did. When they saw that the project is doing OK they were willing to invest more, but was already down on it's neas. Offcorce no one knows who mony are they willing to invest, but since the game is doing OK whith sales, i think this is the thing why you could belive in the futur. Beacuse Ubi is an investor, and as an investor you alway want to get more money out of your investments.


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We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 07, 2012 04:44 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:47, 07 Aug 2012.

Quote:
So you think the DLCs should have add-on quality?

If they sold a DLC "Half a dozen neutral creatures for only 4,99 €", wouldn't you complain about this milking strategy?

Would it satisfy you if they sold the content of an add-on worth 20 € piecemeal via 10 DLCs, each costing 4,99 €?
First of all, I detest the whole DLC concept because in most cases it delivers less than it takes and its aim is exactly to milk the players. But given that it is very mainstream to sell your game a spoonful at a time and there will always be people who will tell you that there's nothing wrong with that, I guess I'll have to live with it (not that I'm intending to buy any such crap). So, if I'm to give an opinion, a 10 euro DLC should include, at the very least, extra game features like new creatures, new dwellings (a reasonable amount of them, say 3-4 of each) + an enhancement of the existing factions (unique skills, maybe even one per faction just to show that it CAN be done) on top of campaign with its own content - boss and the rest. This is not sufficient for a full expansion pack but it'll not be as insulting as the content of the "Pirates" and even though it will still be milking (because they can add all this to an expansion along with an extra faction and other features and price it, say, 20-25 euro), it will at least be a far more subtle one.
Quote:
There is no reason to assume that Ubisoft will not fund further work on H6, and as far as I know Erwan has already announced that there will be an addon.
As far as I'm concerned, Erwan is discredited for life. He worked very hard to build a reputation of a spineless twat who disappears from sight when the situation becomes too hot and he did quite well.
As for Ubisoft's funding - what we know is that the game is "a moderate success" for Ubisoft and that they never released official sales numbers for digital, retail, etc. sales. If you know something more - close or exact digits - it will be helpful to share them. The overall impression however - and this is yet to be refuted - is that Heroes VI is a low-budget game from the very start (or more accurately - from the point when Black Hole started working on it as Nival obviously had their own Heroes VI almost done before that). This low-budget game failed on almost every front where it was expected to fail and alienated many people. OK, Black Hole may have their share in the mess but I don't see Ubisoft passing the project to a large, well-equipped studio which can add a good amount of enhancement for a reasonable amount of time. On the contrary - we've been told many times that Limbic are small, obviously capable of patching the game and introducing minor additions - but as an insider can you honestly tell that they will be able to make a RMG, add sim-turns and develop new factions from a scratch? For less than 1-2 years from now, if possible?
Quote:
It is funny how people now say what an expansion should look but the only thing that has ever met these demands was ToE and partialy HoF. Befor that it was only maps, artifacts, some creatures, map objects and a campaigne (whit one exeption af an controversial faction)
No, it's not funny because my very consistent opinion which I have shared a few dozen times in this forum is that Heroes V was a disaster, crap, a pile of unrealized potential and the likes until TotE. And HoF was a poor expansion among other things but still far better than all we've got enhancement-wise in Heroes VI so far.
Quote:
And For your question about why did Ubi not pay BH? Well from my point of view. As an investor, if you see that project you have invested in is problematic, would you invest more money into it and risk to lose all of it. Or would you first loke how the project is doing and the deside to invest more or not. I know what I would do, and I think I know what Ubi did. When they saw that the project is doing OK they were willing to invest more, but was already down on it's neas. Offcorce no one knows who mony are they willing to invest, but since the game is doing OK whith sales, i think this is the thing why you could belive in the futur. Beacuse Ubi is an investor, and as an investor you alway want to get more money out of your investments.

Ubisoft want to make money out of nothing, not out of their investment. Otherwise they would have really invested some money in the game. This means bigger developer to begin with. Obviously this isn't what happened.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 07, 2012 05:08 PM

Quote:
As for Ubisoft's funding - what we know is that the game is "a moderate success" for Ubisoft and that they never released official sales numbers for digital, retail, etc. sales. If you know something more - close or exact digits - it will be helpful to share them.

I found this, hope it helps you
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 07, 2012 07:40 PM

Quote:
Quote:
So you think the DLCs should have add-on quality?

If they sold a DLC "Half a dozen neutral creatures for only 4,99 €", wouldn't you complain about this milking strategy?

Would it satisfy you if they sold the content of an add-on worth 20 € piecemeal via 10 DLCs, each costing 4,99 €?
First of all, I detest the whole DLC concept because in most cases it delivers less than it takes and its aim is exactly to milk the players. But given that it is very mainstream to sell your game a spoonful at a time and there will always be people who will tell you that there's nothing wrong with that, I guess I'll have to live with it (not that I'm intending to buy any such crap). So, if I'm to give an opinion, a 10 euro DLC should include, at the very least, extra game features like new creatures, new dwellings (a reasonable amount of them, say 3-4 of each) + an enhancement of the existing factions (unique skills, maybe even one per faction just to show that it CAN be done) on top of campaign with its own content - boss and the rest. This is not sufficient for a full expansion pack but it'll not be as insulting as the content of the "Pirates" and even though it will still be milking (because they can add all this to an expansion along with an extra faction and other features and price it, say, 20-25 euro), it will at least be a far more subtle one.
Quote:
There is no reason to assume that Ubisoft will not fund further work on H6, and as far as I know Erwan has already announced that there will be an addon.
As far as I'm concerned, Erwan is discredited for life. He worked very hard to build a reputation of a spineless twat who disappears from sight when the situation becomes too hot and he did quite well.
As for Ubisoft's funding - what we know is that the game is "a moderate success" for Ubisoft and that they never released official sales numbers for digital, retail, etc. sales. If you know something more - close or exact digits - it will be helpful to share them. The overall impression however - and this is yet to be refuted - is that Heroes VI is a low-budget game from the very start (or more accurately - from the point when Black Hole started working on it as Nival obviously had their own Heroes VI almost done before that). This low-budget game failed on almost every front where it was expected to fail and alienated many people. OK, Black Hole may have their share in the mess but I don't see Ubisoft passing the project to a large, well-equipped studio which can add a good amount of enhancement for a reasonable amount of time. On the contrary - we've been told many times that Limbic are small, obviously capable of patching the game and introducing minor additions - but as an insider can you honestly tell that they will be able to make a RMG, add sim-turns and develop new factions from a scratch? For less than 1-2 years from now, if possible?
Quote:
It is funny how people now say what an expansion should look but the only thing that has ever met these demands was ToE and partialy HoF. Befor that it was only maps, artifacts, some creatures, map objects and a campaigne (whit one exeption af an controversial faction)
No, it's not funny because my very consistent opinion which I have shared a few dozen times in this forum is that Heroes V was a disaster, crap, a pile of unrealized potential and the likes until TotE. And HoF was a poor expansion among other things but still far better than all we've got enhancement-wise in Heroes VI so far.
Quote:
And For your question about why did Ubi not pay BH? Well from my point of view. As an investor, if you see that project you have invested in is problematic, would you invest more money into it and risk to lose all of it. Or would you first loke how the project is doing and the deside to invest more or not. I know what I would do, and I think I know what Ubi did. When they saw that the project is doing OK they were willing to invest more, but was already down on it's neas. Offcorce no one knows who mony are they willing to invest, but since the game is doing OK whith sales, i think this is the thing why you could belive in the futur. Beacuse Ubi is an investor, and as an investor you alway want to get more money out of your investments.

Ubisoft want to make money out of nothing, not out of their investment. Otherwise they would have really invested some money in the game. This means bigger developer to begin with. Obviously this isn't what happened.


Lots of hot air and silly claims. LOW budget game?  They want to make money out of nothing?
And since when do you need a big developer to make a good game?

The simple truth is, there have been a couple of wrong priorities, eating up the budget. You might say, the campaigns have been too expensive - Heroes isn't a cinematic experience. And I think BH has simply aimed too high with game mechanics.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2012 03:53 PM

Duel of Champions extended to germany

Raiders announced

Heroes Online announced

As expected, let's see if they announce something about H6
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adriancat
adriancat


Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
posted August 15, 2012 04:01 PM

Well,anounced,but absolutely no details about them yet.Too bad that the conference can't be watched live.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2012 04:23 PM

Quote:
Well,anounced,but absolutely no details about them yet.Too bad that the conference can't be watched live.

we already have a preview of Heroes Online and a teaser video of Raiders, check the Dimension Gates subforum
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 15, 2012 04:54 PM

OH My god the brand just died.. and by died a mean died pernamently. 4 online games out of the same world. 3 of the comming out in the same year. WTF? OK who.. and pleas tell me who the snow will be willing to play this.
Duel of Champions? Ok its a card game. Lets say it is not that usual and  the fact that it is Online was rather New at the monment.

Heroes Online? Old looks like the old Chinies project made in a new face. But Sorry No thank.. and by no thank I mean no thanks.

Might and magci raiders: Why Oh my good of chaos why? Pleas tell me this is not true!! Not a Brainwashed online RPG not ANOTHER one WHY!!!!!

Ok so wats the Main problem:
1: Non of these look like a high quality game. Just general game junk. And in case of raiders.. like a bad piece of junk.
2: All of them are online. Not console, Not standard PC game. But Online. Yey the age of Online games is here.

Who gives a damned hell about online games. What do online games actually give you. They are A repetive. B get old really fast. C have no goal. D there is to much of them. I would fire everyone that actually came up with the idea to introduce 3 online games at onec!

Till now Might and magic was a brand of good games.
The entire RPG series up to VIII was good or medicore.
The Heroes series up to Heroes V had strong fanbase and many of the games had a status of "Legendary" games (II, III, IV, V)
Some of the Spinnoffs Ubi has made were great games aswell. Clash of heroes was on of the best DS games of its time. Dark Messiah is rememberd for its unique battle system till these days even if it was not such a good game. (and will be surpased by Dishonerd in the future)
But this? THIS!!! I do not see how Raiders could be a good game. I can only see Heroes Online kill the online multiplayer of Heroes VI.
What started as an acceptable exception with Duel of Champions has turned into a new wave and I do not know if I want to ride on int!!!!
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

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We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2012 05:00 PM

Quote:
Till now Might and magic was a brand of good games.

Read this, my small friend. M&M brand had also a dark past with spin offs : warrios, legends and crusaders of M&M, and more.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted August 15, 2012 05:02 PM

Don't you hate on Crusaders!  It had the boomerang axe!!!
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Wrath and raving I will not stop
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 15, 2012 05:02 PM

There, Dave, you're starting to sober up.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2012 05:04 PM

Quote:
Don't you hate on Crusaders!  It had the boomerang axe!!!

I never hate it or love it, since I never tried out

But our friend only knew about the tip of the iceberg - there's a lot more underneath it ^^
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 15, 2012 05:06 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 17:11, 15 Aug 2012.

Quote:
Quote:
Till now Might and magic was a brand of good games.

Read this, my small friend. M&M brand had also a dark past with spin offs : warrios, legends and crusaders of M&M, and more.

I know those games, I played most of them. And I know the downfall of them.I Actuall considere Crusader an OK game.. It was fun to play.

Just for the note
Bad games in the franchies (sofar)
Legends
Crusader (Palyed)
Warrirors
Might and magic IX (palyed)
Heroes VI (sofar) (played)
Heroes IV (for many people, for many people a great game) (Played)
Heroes Kingdoms¨(Played)
Quest for the dragon bone staff

Yes the series had bad games. nobody is perfect.
But games like Heroes II-V, Might ad Magic I-VIII, Dark messiah and Clash of heroes are good games and they are the majority, the well known majority.

Quote:
Don't you hate on Crusaders!  It had the boomerang axe!!!
Second this. best weapon in an action RPG ever!!!

Quote:
There, Dave, you're starting to sober up.

Until now I had no reason to doubt the future. Duel of Champions is an OK card game and I had trust in Heroes VI. I Do not have trust in Raiders and I do not see why they made an free to play competition for there own game with Heroes Online. Who is in charge of this brand again? He needs a tip or two in strategy!!!
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted August 15, 2012 05:43 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I still can't say anything nice about these new projects so I won't say anything at all.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted August 15, 2012 05:45 PM

So, this Raiders game is basically just Diablo set in Ashan?  


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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 15, 2012 05:48 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 17:48, 15 Aug 2012.

Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I still can't say anything nice about these new projects so I won't say anything at all.

Im starting to understand you Cepheus. knowing this I would flip of Ubi aswell. OK maybe I should turn on the positive side and wait if any of those two could be good games. BUT IT IS SO HARD WHEN YOU SEE THEM!!!
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2012 05:51 PM

Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I still can't say anything nice about these new projects so I won't say anything at all.

Where's Might & Magic X

Quote:
So, this Raiders game is basically just Diablo set in Ashan?

Yes
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 15, 2012 06:49 PM
Edited by xerox at 18:50, 15 Aug 2012.

WTF

this is making me so depressed =(
it's the death of 3DO all over again

garbage

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