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| Thread: A survey and a lament |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted August 22, 2012 04:28 PM |
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You guys are pretty funny. HC is kindergarten compared to other forums where, for instance, you could get warnings for things like not capitalizing or posting in an easily-readable way.
Newsflash: Forums were never democracies. Mods listened, decided that they won't revert the penalty, case closed, deal with it. Regurgitating the same 'arguments' five hundred times is pointless.
If you guys converted 50% of your energy you spend on arguing ad nauseam over ridicoulus non-issues (that happened 3 years ago, lol) like this to some original thoughts or posts, HC would be a far better place.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 04:31 PM |
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Quote:
You guys are pretty funny. HC is kindergarten compared to other forums where, for instance, you could get warnings for things like not capitalizing or posting in an easily-readable way.
This is also true. Of moderated forums, HC is probably the most gentle one I've ever seen. Mods give repeated warnings before penalties and a lot of trolling is/was allowed. it was like that when I joined, years ago, and it's still like that. "HC Tyranny" is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted August 22, 2012 04:38 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 16:39, 22 Aug 2012.
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We're spoiled ^^
Beside this forum I mostly frequent the Nexus forums, and even mentioning anything such as using a pirated game gets you permabanned there.
It's extreme but also works very well. Easier to be consistent and just when there's just a single answer (BAN) to any offense I guess.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 04:48 PM |
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Why would it be ok to - theoretically - discuss all kinds of "issues" from past, present and future, but "kindergarten" and a waste of energy to discuss the realities of moderational behaviour and mod calls?
Why are two moderators having a problem with people voicing their dissatisfaction? "Petty crusade", I read. Why petty? And why "crusade"?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 04:56 PM |
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Because it's the third day you're making a fuss about THREE YEAR OLD penalty for a TROLL (back then).
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted August 22, 2012 05:01 PM |
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Quote:
a TROLL (back then).
A whole family of trolls now!
Some penalties are in order,IMO.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 22, 2012 05:04 PM |
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Quote:
Mods give repeated warnings before penalties and a lot of trolling is/was allowed.
Evidently not... I mean you seriously posted that when we're discussing a case where not a single warning was issued? And consecutive trolling penalty placed on a post that not only NOT trolling, but a considerable contribution to the discussion. You seriously didn't think for a second of placing the penalty on one of his many alleged trolling posts but decided to taint a decent one??? Are you kidding me?
And not only no apology is given, but you dare to pull such a cheap card on me? I care about this place and its members, by telling me that an apology for wrong doing or its discussion is a pointless waste of time, I began to get seriously disheartened. I've lost alot of faith in you guys, and I'm disgusted beyond reckoning.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 22, 2012 05:06 PM |
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I really was wondering when the next HC Drama will commence. I think Will and Lex are right by the way - if there's a new HC Drama with years old members in the middle of it, then this place really is stagnating.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 05:08 PM |
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Well, in fact it's YOU (mods) who's making the fuss about something ridiculous because you are too bone-headed and self-righteous to simply take the completely unjustified penalty back in the name of justice (that doesn't care about time) - and on top of that you (mods) are deleting threads where the rabble dares to complain about that.
And just for the record - I'm making a fuss now about the deletion of a thread, not because of the penalty. It's one thing to make stupid and unjust calls - nobody is perfect, after all. It's another to suppress the discussion of it.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted August 22, 2012 06:02 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 18:03, 22 Aug 2012.
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Quote:
I think that erasing threads is simply unacceptable.
It's a very contemptous way to deal with stuff you don't like - maybe that's how it works in China, but in a US web forum?
It's bad enough, if the powers that are ignore justified pleas. Erasing them is like stomping on you.
I cant believe I actually agree with JJ on something, frankly I dont even understand why is there censorship, why are people getting banned/silenced and why are threads being closed, not here (HC) but in general as well, that sexually confused Wesley got banned coz of something he did 8 years ago ? There are many things I dont get in "forums world" but I did visit 2-4 forums in the last year and I really do think that HC is far better than anything else out there, quality wise, censorship wise, etc...
Now I'm going to eat some cake and cry like a little girl coz I had to agree with JJ 
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 07:45 PM |
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The mods deleted that topic?
They should be ashamed of themselves.
As JJ said, it's not up to them to decide when a discussion ends, as long as it's on-topic and within the CoC. We can talk until the cows come home, and it's not their place to do anything about it. As long as there are no insults, spam, or illegal activities, the mods can only advise. As long as the CoC isn't being breached, the mods shouldn't do anything. We've had the discussion about how much discretion mods should be allowed to have: some thought they should have to strictly abide by the CoC, and some thought they should be allowed to use their own judgment. We've seen what letting them "use their own judgment" does - they shut down discussion and delete topics criticizing them.
"The thread had it coming." - Elvin.
"Life is hard...I know" - Angelito
These quotes show that at least two of the mods have overstepped their boundaries and have let their power get to their heads.
If you can't handle being mods, resign. No one's forcing you to do something you don't like. But don't abuse your powers.
Edit: I somehow missed this gem from Angelito:Quote:
Any further discussion to that issue here in the feedback thread is spam. And you not what happens with spammers, don't you?
The CoC clearly states that spam is "reating several replies that contain one or two sentences in a short amount of time". It's unlikely that discussion of the penalty would have been classified as spam under the CoC definition. But Angelito doesn't have to enforce the CoC, he's a mod and he can do whatever he wants. 
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Eccentric Opinion
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 22, 2012 08:01 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:06, 22 Aug 2012.
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Don't you love it when there is again the time people like to make dramas out of nothing because it is this quiet summer time again? 
First of all, one quote out of the COC just for JJ, who sometimes by mistake forgets parts of rules of this board:
Quote:
Moderators have powers to move, edit, delete, close and rate threads, to give/take quality points and to silence members.
Feel free to apply as a moderator and show your style. I am pretty sure, many members are very interested in the way you would handle some issues here
For lexxan:
Quote:
Again, why are people outraged at angelito's behaviour *now*, while has been consistently self-righteous, patronizing and judgemental ever since he started posting here?
Well, of course everyone can have his opinion (without getting penalized  ), but I would love to see some examples of the allegations you point out here. And I am pretty sure you will find tons of them, because of the word "consistently" you used here.
And finally (and this WILL BE my last words to this issue!) to the case itself:
The problem with this and many similar cases in the past is, many members are doing hard in accepting decissions.
- There was NO problem, when Xerox brought up his PERSONAL issue here.
He got an answer, which I really thought he would take with some kind of humor, becuase many people here (JJ?) seem to take the internet way too serious. He didn't reply, so the case was done for me and the squad.
- Out of a sudden, another member thought he has to take over the advocats role for Xerox and starts a discussion about that issue.
- He got his reply from TWO moderators, and a final decision was made
- He is not willing to accept this decision and continues, bringing up other members aswell
- He gets a warning to let the case rest (again, HE ISN'T EVEN INVOLVED in this THREE YEAR OLD issue!!), or he will get "punished".
- He ignores AGAIN and starts a new thread about this issue
- The anounced punishment happens
So this all could have been prevented by just accepting the moderators' final decision. He already lived with that penalty for 3 years...so what?
You all really should stop taking this internet stuff so serious. A penalty on a forum is not a bill you have to pay.
And about the "HC is a sinking ship"....
I guess we hear and read this or similar lines for 10 years now (It started when H4 came out ). But we are still shipping around...what a miracle
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 22, 2012 08:07 PM |
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Quote:
You guys are pretty funny. HC is kindergarten compared to other forums where, for instance, you could get warnings for things like not capitalizing or posting in an easily-readable way.
Newsflash: Forums were never democracies. Mods listened, decided that they won't revert the penalty, case closed, deal with it. Regurgitating the same 'arguments' five hundred times is pointless.
If you guys converted 50% of your energy you spend on arguing ad nauseam over ridicoulus non-issues (that happened 3 years ago, lol) like this to some original thoughts or posts, HC would be a far better place.
BTW...this is the post of the month in my eyes. Read it well!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2012 08:10 PM |
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That's such an inadequate reply. "Don't take it so seriously!" isn't a proper response to an accusation of having done something wrong. It may not be important for you, but it's clearly important for someone if they're willing to put so much effort into talking about it.
No, we members shouldn't accept bad decisions. I personally won't.
Quote:
You all really should stop taking this internet stuff so serious. A penalty on a forum is not a bill you have to pay.
If it's not "so serious", overturn the penalty. A penalty on a forum is not a bill that's not going to be paid.
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Eccentric Opinion
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted August 22, 2012 08:23 PM |
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BTW...this is the post of the month in my eyes. Read it well!
So the post of the month doesnt get a qp?
A qps now are given for the post of the year/decade?
Sounds so serious.I am frightened!
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 22, 2012 08:29 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 20:29, 22 Aug 2012.
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I think it would be a good time for the members and mods here to come to a viable and honest compromise/solution.
I personally didn't really see the reason for the original penalty. Xerox has on many occasions written far more provocative posts that were left penalty free. However, when we elect mods (or mods are elected) we need to trust their judgement and fairness. No one is perfect and everyone has bad day, moderators are not infallible. Sometimes life isn't fair and other peoples ego/sensitibilities get bruised, but this a Forum, not a schoolyard. And that is what it has been turned into now.
The simple truth is that a Forum only exists because of its members and their input. Not because of its moderators (although good moderators boost a Forum greatly). And when a group of members have a particular issue, trying to pretend it hasn't happened or deleting threads in the vain hope that the issue will now stop is foolish and highly insulting to the members.
No one wants to rub anyone's nose in this mess, but when a mod makes a decision that is based on their own personal bias and that is later called into question by its members, moderators need to take note and accept they may have made a mistake and at least honestly and fairly discuss the members worries. (I must also say that I personally do not believe that moderator should in anyway start deleting threads just because they no longer wish the subject to continue. That is not their call at all).
There is nothing humble or inferior in admitting you made a mistake. It is not as if the members are baying for an apology either (although they might soon if this continues). Whatever the differences between certain members on both sides here, we really need to grow up a little, accept responsibility for our actions and deal with the issue fairly.
Maybe the issue needs to be taken out of Angelito and Corribus's hands, as it has now become far too personal, and allow someone a bit more independent to put an end to this. This is a wonderful forum and this kind of mess we really don't need.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 22, 2012 08:33 PM |
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 22, 2012 08:36 PM |
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Maybe the issue needs to be taken out of Angelito and Corribus's hands, as it has now become far too personal, and allow someone a bit more independent to put an end to this.
This.
It appears obvious that quite a few members are having a personal issue with Angelito and Corribus's decisions right now. Its putting both moderators in a difficult position. But from reading what people are saying, these are genuine reasons and many are very annoyed.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 22, 2012 08:39 PM |
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Suppose a third mod comes in and takes the same decision (mods usually stick up for each other). Will that calm everyone down?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted August 22, 2012 08:42 PM |
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Well a third moderator or a member. I personally don't believe under the circumstances that another mod would blindly agree with any side, not with everyone watching them anyway 
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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