|
| Thread: A survey and a lament |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted August 22, 2012 08:43 PM |
|
|
The issue isn't so much the penalty as it is shutting down discussion in OSM feedback and deleting the thread here in the Tribunal.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 08:45 PM |
|
|
I'm going to answer this in detail - probably the last thing I'll do here and more than those "mods" do, lately.
Quote:
Don't you love it when there is again the time people like to make dramas out of nothing because it is this quiet summer time again? 
Ok, no problem with a nice "much ado about nothing" start - except that it's just again condescension time.
Quote:
First of all, one quote out of the COC just for JJ, who sometimes by mistake forgets parts of rules of this board:
Quote:
Moderators have powers to move, edit, delete, close and rate threads, to give/take quality points and to silence members.
Condescending and lecturing. Let's see.
No one doubts that you HAVE said powers. Obviously. However, the question - the ONLY question is, how you use them. It's like with the weapon thread. No one doubts that the cops are armed and authorized to use their guns. But people expect that their use is JUSTIFIED - as opposed to ARBITRARY; out of personal reasons, randomly and so on.
In other words, people expect moderators to use their powers in a rational and reasonable way.
Quote:
Feel free to apply as a moderator and show your style. I am pretty sure, many members are very interested in the way you would handle some issues here
I don't doubt that. I've been offering my services already, but it seems I was considered unworthy. Just stating facts here.
One thing I can guarantee: I would NEVER EVER delete a thread critisizing my moderational actions - that's for sure.
Quote:
For lexxan:
Quote:
Again, why are people outraged at angelito's behaviour *now*, while has been consistently self-righteous, patronizing and judgemental ever since he started posting here?
Well, of course everyone can have his opinion (without getting penalized  ), but I would love to see some examples of the allegations you point out here. And I am pretty sure you will find tons of them, because of the word "consistently" you used here.
He will, actually. Not lately, because of not much posting - but generally, yes, sure. Just look at your communication with Elodin.
Quote:
And finally (and this WILL BE my last words to this issue!) to the case itself:
The problem with this and many similar cases in the past is, many members are doing hard in accepting decissions.
No. The problem is, that some people cannot admit a mistake.
Quote:
- There was NO problem, when Xerox brought up his PERSONAL issue here.
He got an answer, which I really thought he would take with some kind of humor, becuase many people here (JJ?) seem to take the internet way too serious.
If you would indeed take things with some humor you'd long have admitted your mistake.
Quote:
He didn't reply, so the case was done for me and the squad.
- Out of a sudden, another member thought he has to take over the advocats role for Xerox and starts a discussion about that issue.
Untrue. More than one member said the penalty was unjustified.
Quote:
- He got his reply from TWO moderators, and a final decision was made
- He is not willing to accept this decision and continues, bringing up other members aswell
- He gets a warning to let the case rest (again, HE ISN'T EVEN INVOLVED in this THREE YEAR OLD issue!!), or he will get "punished".
- He ignores AGAIN and starts a new thread about this issue
- The anounced punishment happens
Is Forfy banned or is the "punishment" the deletion of "his" thread? Really?
Quote:
So this all could have been prevented by just accepting the moderators' final decision. He already lived with that penalty for 3 years...so what?
Better and better. Guy sits in jail 3 years innocently - so what? Since he does he can sit the rest of the sentence as well? What kind of LOGIC is that.
No. All could have been prevented by just accepting that everyone makes a dumb call sometimes, and that this was such a case. THE CALL IS SO BAD IT'S NOT WORTH DEFENDING.
Quote:
You all really should stop taking this internet stuff so serious. A penalty on a forum is not a bill you have to pay.
Good advice. You should maybe heed it with a view on your moderation. After all, this is just a forum - you are no judge or something.
Quote:
And about the "HC is a sinking ship"....
I guess we hear and read this or similar lines for 10 years now (It started when H4 came out ). But we are still shipping around...what a miracle
And of course the main thing is missing. Why was a thread deleted? As a punishment for Forfy? Shooting into the crowwd to get the perp? Or what's this supposed to mean?
In any case, I'd like to finish with this. OF COURSE, this is all completely irrelevant. But considering what IS actually discussed in the OSM and how far away many of the things discussed really are and how NO impact 99.9% of our posts have - THIS is WAY more real than those "discussion" about Emperor's Beard, as they say in our home country. Because, somehow, we are ... involved.
|
|
dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 08:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
For lexxan:
Quote:
Again, why are people outraged at angelito's behaviour *now*, while has been consistently self-righteous, patronizing and judgemental ever since he started posting here?
Well, of course everyone can have his opinion (without getting penalized ), but I would love to see some examples of the allegations you point out here. And I am pretty sure you will find tons of them, because of the word "consistently" you used here.
Popcorn: Check
Refreshment: Check
Time-available: Check
Waiting for entertainment to start.
Quote:
Well a third moderator or a member. I personally don't believe under the circumstances that another mod would blindly agree with any side, not with everyone watching them anyway 
I am a member and I do. New drama now?
____________
The empty set
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 08:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So what's the compromise then?
We take away that penalty and give xerox at least a few overdue ones for his trolling.
Guess people who "stand for him" will be finally happy for JUSTICE, huh? This time, everything will be according to CoC. And the poor guy will end bad-mannered because of his "defenders".
...
nah, just kidding. We're not bored enough to do that.
As for the thread deletion that's bothering you so much - angelito said "case closed". That means he will not listen to any arguments here. So why does forfy start a complain thread? Val's not there. Angelito will not change his decision. Was it really so awful of him to delete the thread when it was... pointless and inducing unnecessary flaming?
I'm sure you devil's advocates would be happy if we did the "take away QP for accumulated trolling and slap 4-5 individual penalties for trolling" action against Xerox, but it really wouldn't be any better for the one you're trying to defend. Still, we would be totally true to CoC and there would be no reason for you to say how bad Cor&angelito are
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:01 PM |
|
|
This is getting worse and worse and scarier and scarier.
I can not believe that we have Moderators who are actually censoring and prohibiting important discussions. Moderators who actually banned (?) a person who brought up constructive views on a number of serious issues that NEEDS to be discussed.
We want to have an open discussion about a number of big issues, but instead we are met with certain Moderators who aren't displaying much more than cold arrogance and self-righteousness. All this behaviour is creating is bad blood, distrust and polarization.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:03 PM |
|
|
Banned? Lol at how the rumors spread around here. Oh, how I wish moderators could just ban people...
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:03 PM |
|
|
No its not so much about Xerox and his penalty, its like Mvass said. What has really created this mess is the closing of a valid thread. To members it was done arbitrarily, but which has nothing to do with the CoC.
Xerox can take care of himself, as I am sure he will prove to HC many times
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:05 PM |
|
|
We could ask Val for thread restoration, I believe...
... if he was here
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:05 PM |
|
|
Quote:
We take away that penalty and give xerox at least a few overdue ones for his trolling.
What trolling? I used this argument against forfy in the OSM feeback, and he linked me Xerox's post history, I found a few broad personal opinions, but trolling it is not. Unless you mods deleted every single one of these alleged troll posts. But the question still stands, why didn't one of THOSE troll posts get the penalty instead of a worthwhile post?
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:07 PM |
|
|
And a last thought.
The mods are not the thought police. In my opinion - and I think it's a pretty rational opinion - mods shoukd make sure that people deal in a civil way with each other. That is, they judge FORM. If someone makes his points in a very offensive way, he's warned and ultimately penelized. Which is rational, because if you let things slip, things will escalate.
But they are not supposed to judge CONTENT, except whether there is content or not (spamming).
That includes their modding which is no taboo. You cannot just warn and ultimately penelize people because you don't want people to pick on your decisions. You can't just extort people, stop discussing my decisions, or. I mean, that's not moderation, that's oppression.
Is there a point in the CoC that says mod decisions are not to be discussed?
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:08 PM |
|
|
Then I guess moderators have no other choice than restore justice and apply what Doomforge said. So people will think twice before escalating.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
What trolling? I used this argument against forfy in the OSM feeback, and he linked me Xerox's post history, I found a few broad personal opinions, but trolling it is not. Unless you mods deleted every single one of these alleged troll posts. But the question still stands, why didn't one of THOSE troll posts get the penalty instead of a worthwhile post?
You weren't even here when he was on his trolling sprees, so you missed things you would NOT want to read.
I'm sure Xerox would feel embarrassed reading his posts about his mum's vagina today
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:11 PM |
|
|
I remember one such post, I believe it was influenced by B-boys strange but humerus attraction to Xerox's mother. (in the real life picture thread if I recall correctly) It was all in good nature.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:12 PM |
|
|
I would want it to read - except there is no such post.
I mean, face it - there is no such thing as "readunworthy" except if it's empty. Spam is spam because it's empty and hollow, not because it's awkward.
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Which is rational, because if you let things slip, things will escalate.
But they are not supposed to judge CONTENT, except whether there is content or not (spamming).
Yes, but what if the CONTENT will make things escalate?
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:14 PM |
|
Edited by Adrius at 21:14, 22 Aug 2012.
|
Nah it was way more than that, but most of it is buried and forgotten so all the proof is gone anyway.
Xerox has matured A LOT.
____________
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:16 PM |
|
|
We deleted most, I believe. it was pretty obscure and gross, well, maybe it made mvass laugh, but I felt disgusted.
I don't know, imagine yourself posting that an island looks like your mother's vagina... Do you consider this something we should tolerate? Along with Forfy's rather disgusting sexual threads? Many members asked us to do something with them, it's not like we work without feedback you know...
As for Xerox himself, I don't know how many people asked why is Xerox not penalized yet those days. I was among the ones asking. I was a regular member back then, if you don't remember, without any ideas to join the "tyrants"
That's why those threads are waste of your time. Those penalties are so old that they are completely taken out of context, and the person also behaves completely different nowadays. I don't know why was it so hard for most posters here to understand.
On the thread deletion, I guess it could be restored if Val came around. No harm done.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:18 PM |
|
|
What? That Serbian vagina stuff? That was genuinely funny man, it lead to Bak creating a fricking masterpiece of photoshop art.
I mean the other stuff was annoying but don't point out the one supremely funny moment man 
____________
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:19 PM |
|
|
Not sure about that - think you're writing it about your own mother, lol
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted August 22, 2012 09:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I don't know, imagine yourself posting that an island looks like your mother's vagina... Do you consider this something we should tolerate? Along with Forfy's rather disgusting sexual threads? Many members asked us to do something with them, it's not like we work without feedback.
First off I really don't think that you've deleted that, I remember reading Xerox's comment that a picture looks like his mum's privates, don't recall a negative feedback to it. And yes I recall forfy's sexual threads, titled "does 'Nightterror' like penises" and such. Those were dealt with, and forfy made his case that he did right by the CoC and was ignored due to feedback from the annoyed and disgusted community.
In this case action is taken beyond the CoC bounds not only without the popular support of the community, but strictly against it.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
|
|
