|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
posted January 13, 2015 12:12 AM |
|
Edited by artu at 00:18, 13 Jan 2015.
|
I think your second post is to Sal 
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 12:33 AM |
|
Edited by GunFred at 18:11, 13 Jan 2015.
|
Edit:
This TYT video has some very good point on the current discussion about muslim responsibility and generalizing them. Also includes an american comedian and JK Rowling pwning Rupert Murdoch on Twitter.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 06:24 PM |
|
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 06:44 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 19:09, 13 Jan 2015.
|
Gunfred, of course, nobody should generalize on a racial basis (I'm "ethnically" Muslim, ffs) but your link clearly misses a point, it's like Ben Affleck here, presenting an overall correct argument under a wrong context, completely missing what the other guys are telling him. There is a social reality, and this is not me generalizing a large group of people because of a few fanatics, there really is a very significant portion of Muslims, although not violent themselves, who directly or indirectly support the notion that Islamic law should rule over everyone and concepts like individual rights, liberty, secular law or freedom of speech are just corrupted Western values that should be defeated one way or the other.
Half my country is conservatively Muslim and roughly half of that half wrote things like "that's how you'll end up if you mess with the prophet" etc all over social media, after the Charlie Hebdo attack. You can not expect this not to have an effect on the way people think, if you devote yourself to a religion that has serious compatibility issues with secular life on a regular basis.
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 06:52 PM |
|
|
Richard Dawkins is the man! 
But one of the main points of my video is that you cannot judge all muslims based on that hilariously ignorant guy who got pwned by Dawkins. If you do, you are either a massive hypocrite or a person who thinks Rupert Murdoch is right and that the author of the Harry Potter books should be blamed for the murder of those sikhs in America. Very far away from Dawkins himself I would bet as a guy like him is bound to have plenty of positive religious aquaintances.
____________
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:28 PM |
|
|
artu said:
Gunfred, of course, nobody should generalize on a racial basis (I'm "ethnically" Muslim, ffs) but your link clearly misses a point, it's like Ben Affleck here, presenting a generally correct argument under a wrong context, completely missing what the other guys are telling him. There is a social reality, and this is not me generalizing a large group of people because of a few fanatics, there really is a very significant portion of Muslims, although not violent themselves, who directly or indirectly support the notion that Islamic law should rule over everyone and concepts like individual rights, liberty, secular law or freedom of speech are just corrupted Western values that should be defeated one way or the other.
Half my country is conservatively Muslim and roughly half of that half wrote things like "that's how you'll end up if you mess with the prophet" etc all over social media, after the Charlie Hebdo attack. You can not expect this not to have an effect on the way people think, if you devote yourself to a religion that has serious compatibility issues with secular life on a regular basis.
All true but this is where OUR responsibily comes into play. Like I have said before, we can't expect muslims to perfectly adapt to a secular society just because we tell them to and some of them truly do want to or already have. Irresponsible immigration leads to this but with help and good planning, there is not doubt that they can become proper citizens. Also, you know better than me that muslims were a long time ago the science-guys of Europe. So if the christians could secularise within a few hundreds of years on their own, why would not modern Islam be able to with access to technology, worldwide communication and guidance? The lazy and cowardly way is to give up on people and make them into outcasts. The worthy and profitable way is to fight hard for peace. As a kid I grew up with a lot of world peace imagery. As an adult, it is sad how a lot of people around the world never shared those dreams or gave up on them for a simpler, more contrasted world view...
Also, I hope you guys will not blame JK Rowling for all those black slaves in old America nor that 10 year old somalian kid who would not hurt a fly for 9/11.
Lastly, another thing I have said before. The west's best weapons against its enemies are not nukes or lasercannons. The best weapons are McDonald's and IKEAs.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:35 PM |
|
|
I am judging the muslims based on the exasperation I see around me. Part of their responsibility is fairly shared with our government, who made it possible that a scientist or an university teacher makes less money than a rabbit-breeding unemployed muslim family. Because here is the burning point: parasitic people coming only to suck resources and firmly decided to give nothing in return. And poor us, someone throws "humanitarian" word and suddenly we have to apologize, work hard then see them raising the middle finger.
Those who, through their skill, education and determination, can raise the country competitiveness, are welcome, no matter their color or religion.
Those who only seek money and comfort, then use the pack attitude to gather it, we will push them out, sooner or later, no matter their color or religion.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:47 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 19:49, 13 Jan 2015.
|
Quote:
So if the christians could secularise within a few hundreds of years on their own, why would not modern Islam be able to with access to technology, worldwide communication and guidance?
Yes, that can happen in the long-term, actually, I think it will probably happen sooner or later. But the problem as of now is, any critical opposition to Islam (and the values of a significant portion of Muslims who support it) trying to be pacified by throwing around words like Islamophobia or racism. Just like there are many differences between Muslim individuals, there are also differences between people who speak against Islamism. Some of them can indeed be your ignorant racist idiot but I think the portion of those wouldn't be much more than the hardcore, ready-to-die jihadist.
How can you expect the Islamic world and its masses to progress if you silence people who oppose their flaws with some misguided political correctness. What would have happened if someone called Voltaire a Christianophobic?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:49 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
I am judging the muslims based on the exasperation I see around me. Part of their responsibility is fairly shared with our government, who made it possible that a scientist or an university teacher makes less money than a rabbit-breeding unemployed muslim family. Because here is the burning point: parasitic people coming only to suck resources and firmly decided to give nothing in return. And poor us, someone throws "humanitarian" word and suddenly we have to apologize, work hard then see them raising the middle finger.
Those who, through their skill, education and determination, can raise the country competitiveness, are welcome.
Those who only seek money and comfort, then use the pack attitude to gather it, we will push them out, sooner or later, no matter their color or religion.
You guys have "irresponsible immigration". It is like taking expensive loans that only buys some time without actually solving the problem and even making it worse. It is very unfortunate that there is a trend of fascist, anti-immigration parties, instead of one with "smart immigration" parties.
Also, while I am certain that there has been an increase in harrasment against muslims lately, I personally am more impressed by how the french and australians have appeared more unified across race and religion against violent fundamentalism.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:56 PM |
|
|
There is no anti-immigration party in France, there is anti-parasite party. Nobody ever thought cutting immigration would be necessary, but rather cutting the rotten fruits it produces, then let a healthy tree flourish.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 07:58 PM |
|
|
artu said:
How can you expect the Islamic world and its masses to progress if you silence people who oppose their flaws with some misguided political correctness. What would have happened if someone called Voltaire a Christianophobic?
Islamic nations are a tougher nut to crack and America and Israel are not helping with their preference of bombs over diplomacy.
But in secular nations where muslims are in the minority, all people regardless of race and ideology must be punished for harming others while we activily work against the conditions that gives neutrition to violent fundamentalism and general crime. Cultural bubbles and poverty being two of those.
____________
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted January 13, 2015 08:03 PM |
|
Edited by GunFred at 21:07, 13 Jan 2015.
|
Salamandre said:
There is no anti-immigration party in France, there is anti-parasite party. Nobody ever thought cutting immigration would be necessary, but rather cutting the rotten fruits it produces, then let a healthy tree flourish.
Considering the state of the rest of Europe, I find that hard to believe. But if true, great. I wonder what their plans are after cutting the welfare though. Job programs or leaving them to die? But job programs are a thing of communism and socialism so I sure hope there is a third plan...
EDIT:
Another interesting TYT video with quotes from the brother of a muslim policeman who was murdered by the terrorists in France...
EDIT2:
Yet another TYT video but this time it is about a muslim man who should be blamed for what the terrorists did. Afterall, there is a pattern in islamic culture that makes them more evil so it is alright to punish the group for the sins of a few...
____________
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted January 14, 2015 05:48 AM |
|
|
This is just a gentle reminder about the Code of Conduct, particularly its proscriptions against categorically insulting specific races, genders, religions, and so on. Some of the posts in the last day walk a fine line. Let's stay on the right side of it, ok?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 14, 2015 01:04 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
I am judging the muslims based on the exasperation I see around me. Part of their responsibility is fairly shared with our government, who made it possible that a scientist or an university teacher makes less money than a rabbit-breeding unemployed muslim family. Because here is the burning point: parasitic people coming only to suck resources and firmly decided to give nothing in return. And poor us, someone throws "humanitarian" word and suddenly we have to apologize, work hard then see them raising the middle finger.
So immigrants are to blame for French politicans allowing them to live off welfare?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted January 14, 2015 03:58 PM |
|
|
Anyone who has such low moral standards as to be content to scrounge is responsible for that. Of course you are correct that the French system is set up to be easily expoitable, but it's also easily accessible by those truly in need, if more bueurocracy was in place to weed the scroungers out, then a lot of the decent folk will suffer on the waiting lists, and their privacy intruded in order to determine if they're to contribute or not. Those who misuse a well intended system are responsible, or do you, Xerox, think that people are totally not responsible for the immoral (damaging to the nation) decisions that they make? It's very childish view to see people as so one dimensional, that it is normal for people to exploit for self gain. Of course there are people like that, but then they're incompatible with the morals of the state they inhabit, whether Muslim or French they ought to be removed from the country for their own sake, and the sake of the state.
To answer your question directly, we are responsible for the actions we make, so yes, an indefinite number of immigrants are to blame for opting to remain as dependants as opposed to contributors. There is no shame in poverty, but there is shame in being content with poverty.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 14, 2015 04:57 PM |
|
|
xerox said:
I know a country which had out of control immigration at one point. It created lots of ghettos yet that country ended up becoming the most powerful and prosperous nation the world has ever seen. That country is the United States of America.
The above, needs an "update." It is true that America was built in that fashion but in today's world there has been a "serious change in the attitudes of immigrants. I am not saying all of them but i.e. I have read many 2nd and 3rd generation Mexican-Americans that are outraged because so many "new folks arriving from their old country" are coming here for handouts and not the age-old shared values of work hard, learn English and become an American citizen.
Stubborn National fervor is a very big problem in general today and although I did think it was a U.S. problem, I have since learned it is a serious Global issue affecting the entire West.
When immigrants cross any welcoming border and then are determined to carry the old-Flag and resist {too often even denounce} the new culture, how the heck can that be good for any nation absorbing the added expense?. This problem is very bad because those sorts make it much more difficult for the people that are wanting a new life and willing to learn and adapt.
I'm willing to bet there is another situation that affects all the West now and that's the fact that existing citizens that have been in a country for generations, all which "paid their dues" in their lifetimes, are now having to pay more every year for less and less while freebies fly about for the needy everywhere else. I am generous to a fault but there is a point where a person can be driven to the streets in trying to help another leave them.
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
emilsn91
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2015 10:49 PM |
|
|
Terror attack in Denmark
If you did not know. Denmark was hit by a terror attack this saturday and sunday night.
2 people were killed, and the terrorist was shot and killed early sunday morning. One of the victims was a film director and the other one was a jewish person.
The person was a muslim and only 22 years old. So far it has not been proven whether or not he was alone or not. But they have arrested two other people because they believe that they had helped him obtain the rifle he used.
There is still an invistigation undergoing and not much is known about his motive, but he is said to have been radicalized when he had served a sentence in prison.
So many questions and few answers. I am not scared, I believe that we were lucky that no more were killed. It was said that the jewish person who died were a voluntary door man for a jewish confirmation, and had the attacker gotten by him he could have entered a party with 80 people and probably killed those as well.
To me the most important thing to me is to remain faith and still believe in the good in people, and for this circumstances the good in muslims.
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted February 17, 2015 01:01 AM |
|
|
Just because he's a bad muslim doesn't mean muslim's are bad. He had dark skin too btw. if you want to group him..
The main fear creating issue with those attacks are in my opinion is that random people get hurt, but thankfully this was no Madrid, Bali, London, or USA, where places with lots of unconnected people were targeted only to do as much damage as possible. Thankfully we haven't seen any kind of follow up as happened in France either.
I think that's why I don't feel scared currently, because I don't think this incident was nearly as horrible as what happened in those places mentioned, I think we were "lucky" in that regard, though luck is a hard word to choose.
I think my main issue is that by using the word terror, this attack, which was more an assassination attempt, something we've seen plenty of times, especially in the gang environment, it's put on the same place as attacks where many many unconnected people perished.
As such I think it'd be nice to know e.g. why this is a terror attack, while previous such attempts were not.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I suppose it's mainly a terror attack because of the tragic follow up death that also followed which was similar (but not as many victims) as the Belgian one.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
emilsn91
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted February 17, 2015 07:52 AM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
Just because he's a bad muslim doesn't mean muslim's are bad. He had dark skin too btw. if you want to group him..
The main fear creating issue with those attacks are in my opinion is that random people get hurt, but thankfully this was no Madrid, Bali, London, or USA, where places with lots of unconnected people were targeted only to do as much damage as possible. Thankfully we haven't seen any kind of follow up as happened in France either.
I think that's why I don't feel scared currently, because I don't think this incident was nearly as horrible as what happened in those places mentioned, I think we were "lucky" in that regard, though luck is a hard word to choose.
I think my main issue is that by using the word terror, this attack, which was more an assassination attempt, something we've seen plenty of times, especially in the gang environment, it's put on the same place as attacks where many many unconnected people perished.
As such I think it'd be nice to know e.g. why this is a terror attack, while previous such attempts were not.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I suppose it's mainly a terror attack because of the tragic follow up death that also followed which was similar (but not as many victims) as the Belgian one.
First of all: I agree on the first thing, and that was kinda my point, but okay.
I myself have also been wondering why this is a terror attack since only two people died, but I suppose it is because of the targets and the assains radical behavior.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted February 17, 2015 07:59 AM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
Just because he's a bad muslim doesn't mean muslim's are bad.
You know, just because Hitler was bad, doesn't mean germans are bad. yet they followed him and we know what happened next.
Just saying, because I read today in news that "Danish" young muslims were putting flowers on the exact spot he died, in sign of respect. But this time not for victims.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
