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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 17, 2012 05:14 PM |
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@ Cor
By that definition, mosquitos and mice are atheists too.  And plants, rocks, cars. Damn, just about anything!
//ending off topic
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 17, 2012 05:19 PM |
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They can't be - atheism, like religion, requires consciousness. As far as we know only the humans have it.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 17, 2012 05:25 PM |
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Atheism also requires you to be capable of believing,and as Cor himself pointed out - babies don't pass.
A rock doesn't believe in God because it's not capable of believeing in anything. So does an infant. Both aren't exactly atheists.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 17, 2012 05:26 PM |
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Quote:
By that definition, mosquitos and mice are atheists too. And plants, rocks, cars. Damn, just about anything!
Yes, I suppose they would. See, you're heavily outnumbered! Of course, as Zenofex mentioned, mosquitos and mice are not the kinds of things that can believe in god, so calling them atheistic wouldn't have a whole lot of purpose. But yes, since strictly speaking they don't believe in divine beings, they, too, would be atheistic according to my definition.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 17, 2012 05:31 PM |
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Yay, I nailed a flaw in Corribus' definition! <proud mode>
...
Okay, enough goofing around by me.
On topic, I'm surprised nobody posted dr. R. Hammond's article on Islam population.
(or I'm blind and missed it being posted before).
source: Hammond R. Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
I never really put thought into it, to me it's a bit demagogic. But it may please some of HC members, if they never read that before.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted September 17, 2012 05:40 PM |
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8% of the population of France is Muslim? Wow that was a fact I was completely ignorant about. There were studies though that Muslims in France are most integrated into the society, and have most respect for their country. A reason might be that they mostly speak French already, so it is easier to integrate? Just speculating though.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 17, 2012 06:13 PM |
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These numbers lack glue to turn into anything even remotely serious. You can't possibly claim that the Bosnia war was only due to the Muslims' demands and behaviour if you know at least the basics about it. And China? Seriously?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted September 17, 2012 06:35 PM |
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Yeah, the conflicts in Bosnia and Kosovo were national, not religious. Those are largely secular nations anyway.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 17, 2012 07:05 PM |
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edit: this message refers to now deleted post by Seraphim. You can apply it to the post below however
Of course there's something that makes atheists and theists enjoy healthy discussion. Haven't I mentioned 9001 times already it's the exact thing you seem to be lacking? 
But you can resort to it's lesser cousin: respect. Just watch Corribus, and learn how to be a non-aggressive atheist that has a lot of interesting things to say. Does he flame people, rage over religion or something? Nope. Ergo, it's possible.
Good luck Seraphim 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 17, 2012 07:26 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 06:06, 18 Sep 2012.
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I deleted my previous message to make it less cluttered.
Regarding the point I made about religion
Religion cannot be discussed rationally because the religious person has nothing but pamphlet science, faith and the "Holy" book verses to offer.
Atheists may scream about scientific arguments, but seeing as a discussion is nothing but a emotional exchange, its not worth it.
We are emotional and irrational beings.
That is why the stance "Live and let live" would not really work in practice.
A religious guy believes that he is helping you by preaching about his dogma and the atheist guy will be spamming science arguments in response, by which the religious person will be
A: Offended
B: in denial
C: Threaten-Insult
D: Understand and stop arguing.
Except A and B, the same goes for atheists.
I am keen on hearing what solutions do people provide?
I see two ways, either continue the way we do now and hope these islamic people change or someone takes action and does something against Islam, like banning it as a religion.
Quote:
On topic, I'm surprised nobody posted dr. R. Hammond's article on Islam population.
Now to my second point:
The only way I can personally verfy that the data in that link is incorrect is through personal experience. I have visited turkey and albania. Turkey,eventhough with its "Secular" constituion, "has a pro stance on islam". However, there is no official "State" sponored prosecution, genocide or cleansing of christians.
Albania was a communist country 1946-1976. In 1967 religion was out lawed. I have been there and I have not seen or witnessed prosecution or the death of christians. The laws are strictly secular and there is no defined state religion. The biggest sponsors of religion are Turkey and the various christian international missionaries.
That said, it suffers from economic issues, mafia and so on.
I can at least deny those two points in the link and I am doing so because of the fact that I am not a fan of rightwing people,to what the author of the article in the link seems to be.
At least in Albania, because of nationalistic reasons, religion has played a role as an "ID" for nationalism.
Orthodox christians are called Greeks(Greeks are disliked in Albania) and Albanians are disliked in Greece and usually defined as being muslim.
This is just a point I want to made where religion acts both as an ID for people and as a divisor, a pejorative for being a different religion.
I believe that the same happened in Bosnia. Territorial disputes, fueled by beliefs, religion and national pride.
See,religion section of the link:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/128210/Gallup-Global-Reports.aspx
Edit:
Compromise or dialogue is not possible when at least one side suffers from cognitive distortions.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 18, 2012 03:52 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 15:53, 18 Sep 2012.
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Islams growing pains
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 18, 2012 04:51 PM |
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Quote:
Islams growing pains
Hahah, that was the most awesome video I have seen about Islam.
Thanks for sharing it.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted September 18, 2012 05:01 PM |
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So basically Islam is just angsty?
... Seems legit.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted September 18, 2012 05:29 PM |
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Quote:
Islams growing pains
In the past 100 years militant atheism has murdered over 250 million people, far, far more than all other religions combined for all of recorded history. How many billions until atheism matures?  So far militant atheists have been more dangerous than militants of other religions.
Christianity has murdered no one because no one who murders knows God according to the Christian scriptures.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 18, 2012 05:34 PM |
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@Zenofex
Quote:
Shortly put, most religious people don't keep their beliefs private.
I know they're out there, I've been one of them but you know what?; too many non-believers don't cut your muster either. I constantly read "Jesus_xxxxx etc. etc. or God freakin-fill in the blank. Wth? If you ever became a Christian soon you would understand what is enraging the Muslims. I look past all of that crap and write it off as youth and ignorance but regardless, the West is disrepectful and is ever in the face with anything they damn well please. And the West wants to stroll in everywhere and make everyone like us and has since the 1500s. Bah!
Fyi, a few years ago, a major altercation happened in Pakistan when a company put up a large billboard-poster displaying a half-naked woman pushing some product. I'm not defending radicals by any stretch but I do try to see their stances and it seems very arrogant & foolish to keep shoving greed and disrepect across a land that actually "cares about what they believe". Honestly, I am sick of the soft-porn promotions here in the U.S. as if everyone living just grew their first pubes and zits and can't get a date. "Boy, you just know that water is good"
@All
For those that read books I just finished this insightful work; "West of Kabul, East of New York": An Afghan American Story Tamim Ansary (Author)
Even though it is written by a non-muslim(faith) ex-Afgan, it seems a well-balanced and insightful account of a way-of-life, the West <imo>needs to start understanding first, instead of blindly stumbling in and dictating huge cultural shifts.
@artu
Quote:
Without the internet, most of the stuff discussed in here from people all over the world wouldn't be discussed at all anyway
One off-topic reply; Since so many go off half-cocked with little comprehension or experience to season what they've read...maybe that would be best in most cases. <imo>Knowing every horror-story around the world that happened this morning?; it only provides a helpless fear or worse yet...a growing & vibrant apathy.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 18, 2012 05:54 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 18:23, 18 Sep 2012.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwuduAaWvxU
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv4Bk7qnX-8 especially this one.
Something the HC should see. I think this video should be aired on islamic countries. What he says is quite what I think and would want people to think.
One really grows tired of islamic people "Screaming" constantly. If the cant really take the thing with "Posting" a video on youtube, they really should not emmigrate at all.
@Markur
Quote:
the West <imo>needs to start understanding first, instead of blindly stumbling in and dictating huge cultural shifts.
The west does not need to do anything. It is not the west that screams "Behead those who insult islam" but those muslims.
The only one who should start to understand first are Muslims.
We are all aware that Muslims in the arab world do not tolerate religious freedom, women rights, freespeech and science in schools.
It is they who need to take measures to create an enlightened era of the muslim world.
I am sick of people telling me "I should understand" Muslims because there is not really anything to understand them. Their "Holy book" is heavily "Misinterpreted" or interpreted as true as possible.
Before anything, many muslims are not reasonable.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted September 18, 2012 06:01 PM |
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Quote:
I deleted my previous message to make it less cluttered.
Regarding the point I made about religion
Religion cannot be discussed rationally because the religious person has nothing but pamphlet science, faith and the "Holy" book verses to offer.
Most people can discuss religion rationally. Militant atheists and militants of other religions are exceptions. A person who screams "God does not exist" anytime he hears anything about religion can't be reasoned with. There is no evidence a person who claims God does not exist can preset to back up his claim. His position is one of faith and emotion.
Quote:
Atheists may scream about scientific arguments, but seeing as a discussion is nothing but a emotional exchange, its not worth it.
We are emotional and irrational beings.
That is why the stance "Live and let live" would not really work in practice.
You can present NO scientific arguments that indicate that God does not exist. On the other hand, the very existence of the universe screams that God exists. From what we now know, the universe is not eternal (atheists until recently argued the universe is eternal) and could not have created itself out of a steady state of absolute nothing. That evidence points towards a divine origin for the universe based on our current knowledge. It is the militant atheists who refuses to accept science, not the average person of other religions.
While it is a common argument by atheists that science is behind their position that argument is very false.
Indeed, modern science really owes its existence to Christianity.
Quote:
A religious guy believes that he is helping you by preaching about his dogma and the atheist guy will be spamming science arguments in response, by which the religious person will be
A: Offended
B: in denial
C: Threaten-Insult
D: Understand and stop arguing.
Except A and B, the same goes for atheists.
Again, no science supports atheism. These boards have shown that many atheists are quite offended when their religion of atheism is challenged. They are in denial and quite often insult the challenger.
Religious people, when they share their beliefs, believe they are helping you. Certainly a person should not be "pushy" and continue to talk about religion with someone who does not want to hear the message. Jesus told his disciples this when they were sent out preaching in Israel. They were told if the people they were trying to share the gospel with were not receptive to "shake the dust off their sandals" and move on. An idiom when meant they had fulfilled their duty and would not be held accountable for the rejection of the message by those who refused to hear.
Quote:
I am keen on hearing what solutions do people provide?
Live and live live. Such a simple concept. Freedom of speech. You will hear things that you disagree with. You will say things others disagree with.
Quote:
I see two ways, either continue the way we do now and hope these islamic people change or someone takes action and does something against Islam, like banning it as a religion.
Talk of banning a religion should scare rational people. It is exactly what Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, ect, did. Banning becomes killing the adherents of a religion. The state becomes god and all must bow to it and do, say, and think only what the state approves of.
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Revelation
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted September 18, 2012 06:10 PM |
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Elodin, please stop bashing Atheism for the sake of this thread at least. If you have comments, please take them to the "Questions about Religion" thread, or make/ find a thread about Atheism. As of right now, your posts (and every post responding to you) are excessively off topic and continually derail the thread. If you have a comment about Muslims or the conversation that Markur, Xenofex and Artu are having then please, by all means respond to it or them, but please leave your personal crusade against atheists out of it. Please?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 18, 2012 06:11 PM |
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I think is right time to repost this:
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted September 18, 2012 06:14 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 18:40, 18 Sep 2012.
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@Elodin
Just ignore me from now on. I dont care what you think and I see no point in discussing anything with you.
Spamming a thread 5 times already telling me or others that atheism killed people, Christianity did not kill people,militantism in atheism and so on... Hypocrisy is one thing your bible never taught you apparently. I am sure we get along if we just completely ignore each other.
Derailing a thread 5 times because you need to defend the "Unholy" sanctity of your religion is a good sign of militant-ism.
If somebody who orders the murder of others cannot be a christian, then in the same way atheism cannot be held accountable for the deaths of people. Why, just like "your version of christianity", atheism says nothing about killing.
Nothing=/=To kill infidels. It is easy to understand why you say that.
You believe that the lack of belief in god makes people bloodthursty, manaical evil monsters and that lack of belief means no morals.
But just like everything you said before, its nothing but baseless belief and ignorance.
I am a relatively moral person, I dont kill people out of rage,I fed street cats with food,I respect elder people, I dont throw trash around,I dont spit on the ground and so on.
That happens because not of fear of anybody or that I get an "Eternal" reward when I die or because of an invisible magical being looking on me, but as a result of education and what I think is good.
Again, I wont read any of your replies anymore. Of course, you can reply back but dont expect me to discuss with you anymore.
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This thread is pages long: 
