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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 08:01 AM |
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Kayna said:
Israel has been pretending to be the victim for the past 70 years or so : "We are Jew, we have suffered and lost our land, and now we have the right to take it back, and even if Palestinians suffer along the way, look at how many Arabs there are, and how many Jews there are. We are entitled to our small but holy land."
Israel and Palestine is such a long standing problem with obvious themes on each side, you can tell a lot about someone by asking him what is his opinion on Israel and Palestine.
what i can't figure out, is why there are so many centralized "holy areas" for these religions, and why they all seem to be right on top of one another. couldn't they have designated different holy areas from the getgo? 
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 20, 2015 03:16 PM |
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fred79 said:
what i can't figure out, is why there are so many centralized "holy areas" for these religions, and why they all seem to be right on top of one another. couldn't they have designated different holy areas from the getgo?
It's because of the usurping nature of Islam. Islam isn't a unique religion made by a real artist ( lol ); it's an off-shot of Christianity, which was an off shot of Judaism. Islam was based on the old and new testament, just like many other. Judaism says it's a holy site, then the old testament says it's a holy site, then the new testament says it's a holy site, then Mohammed said he went in communion with god on that site and it became holy as well. The Jews were there first, pretty much. Romans and their obsession with conquest second. Mohammed and his enraged dick third. Who knows, maybe Israelites had to mass massacre people that were already living there too. America is supposed to belong to Indians after all.
People gotta stop ripping off other religions and create their own, I agree lol. I have my own god, his name is Guatemok, and he's a mister potato head. Thank you mister Potato for the life you have given me.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 23, 2015 11:21 AM |
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I was away from PC for most of the week and couldn't respond on time to everything posted here, but maybe it is even better this way. Because now I can demonstrate to you why Israelis don't listen to public world opinion all that much.
Since I revived the thread to talk about the wave of terror moving through Israel we filled up about two pages. In these two pages the responses ranged from "I don't know what's happening", through "I know what's happening and I don't care" and up to "I know what's happening and Israel deserves it". In all those post there was only one condemnation of the stabbings made by Salamandre and even that was after I practically asked him whether he condemns them or not. So the dialogue between Israel and the rest of the World goes a little bit like this:
World: "Hey! Stop killing Palestinians!"
Israel: "But they bombed us."
W: "True, but they only killed like two of you, you're slaughtering them by the hundreds. You're way out of line!"
I: "Weeelll, maaayyyybeeee... wait, now they're stabbing our civillians left and right!"
W: "Well, duh, it's your fault."
I: "But we didn't even attack anyone."
W: "YOUR FAULT!"
I: "..."
I am of course simplifying things. But this is what it feels like. And this thread is a good example of that. Now tell me, would you listen to someone who's always blaming you no matter what happens?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 23, 2015 11:35 AM |
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What about get the snow out of the territory your country annexed illegally, instead of colonizing it on a daily basis?
I don't know what is to discuss here; if one guy/family invades my house, install in the dinning room then one week later, the bedroom, then the kitchen while he takes all my money, bank accounts, my weapons, kills my friends bringing me provisions (see Turkey incident), what I am left with? I take a knife and I stab you out of my misery, because there is only one thing you nurture with your acts, my hate.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 23, 2015 02:36 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 14:37, 23 Oct 2015.
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Only you're not stabbing the guy. You're stabbing his innocent child in hopes that if your neighbor loses one of his kids he'll leave to save the rest.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 07:32 PM |
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Well, I think your version has a little flaw in it.
Geny said:
World: "Hey! Stop killing Palestinians!"
Israel: "But they bombed us."
W: "True, but they only killed like two of you, you're slaughtering them by the hundreds. You're way out of line!"
I: "Weeelll, maaayyyybeeee... wait, now they're stabbing our civillians left and right!"
W: "Well, duh, it's your fault."
I: "But we didn't even attack anyone."
W: "YOUR FAULT!"
I: "..."
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 08:09 PM |
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In 2014 Gaza the UN reported 70% of Palestinians killed by Isreali were CIVILIANS. Out of those 495 were CHILDREN.
 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 08:10 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 20:13, 23 Oct 2015.
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They say that a picture is worth 1 000 words. Here is an important one :
I hope it will help you understand why the majority of people consider Israel to be the aggressor.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 08:21 PM |
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dropping by to state that graphics do not a fact make, kayna. i can make the same thing with 10 minutes or so through mspaint.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 08:27 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 20:33, 23 Oct 2015.
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Well, you can always head over there with a measuring tape for more accurate facts if you want. Once the people of Israel understand what you're doing, I'd start worrying about my health if I were you lol.
I believe Israel will never fully take over the land. It's like they want to keep the facade that they're not taking over, so in the not so far future, what remains of Palestine just might be a small green dot! The power of brainwash, media manipulation and people believing what they want is incredible!
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 08:34 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:35, 23 Oct 2015.
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Kayna said:
Well, you can always head over there with a measuring tape for more accurate facts if you want. ...I'd start worrying about my health if I were you lol.
LOL. great response. i recommend the part quoted above for a qp. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 11:11 PM |
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fred79 please show us a more reliable map, thank you 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2015 11:13 PM |
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Minion said:
fred79 please show us a more reliable map, thank you
i'll get my measuring tape, but someone will have to pay for my plane ticket. and find me an airline that'll let me carry firearms and other assorted goodies. i won't go into a hostile area without being armed to the teeth. 
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted October 24, 2015 08:02 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 08:11, 24 Oct 2015.
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@Kayna
No, Islam is not an offshoot of Christianity as they deny everything of importance the New Testament teaches about Jesus. And Christianity is under a different Covenant than the Old Covenant God made with the Jewish people.
Also the New Testament does not call any place holy. Many places are holy to Christians in the sense that significant events occured there or we have set aside an area such as a church for the service to God. But such places confer no mystical benefit.
Basically Islam never considered the Temple Mount to be holy until they conquered Jerusalem and learned that the Jews can only build a temple in one spot on earth. The Temple Mount. (Rome razed the Jewish temple to the ground in 70 AD.) To prevent the Jews from ever having a temple again they built the Dome of the Rock there. If you visit the wailing wall you are visiting remnants of the Jewish temple complex the Romans razed.
This is one of the current problems as the Muslims don't allow the Jews access to their holiest site and even now are seeking to block them access to the wailing wall.
Oh, and the only nation ever known as Palestine was Israel. When Israel was returned to their land they wanted to live in peace, as they do today. Their Muslim neighbor's surrounded them to destroy Israel and Israel uttwrlycrushed them in the Six Day War. Israel did maintain control of certain strategic land after the war. Over the years they tried trading land for peace but they were dealing with dishonorable liars so the peace was always broken.
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Revelation
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 24, 2015 10:00 AM |
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Elodin said:
@KaynaWhen Israel was returned to their land they wanted to live in peace, as they do today.
It sounds so peaceful, they just "returned". But for the owners of the land, this is equivalent with an invasion, nothing less. And again, you skip the colonization part, which IS the main trigger of the conflict. How many times must I write it that: so long as jews steal land in order to "return peacefully", it can't be peace.
And guess what: they know it.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 24, 2015 11:09 AM |
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@Minion
First of, I have seen different reports on the subject with the percentage of killed civilians ranging from 36% to 80% depending on who you ask.
That aside, while the death of innocents and especially children is very much regrettable, you can't just throw statistic without explaining them. Unlike the stabbings going on lately, the civilians in Gaza were never the target. They were regrettable collateral damage. Collateral damage, might I add, that was heavily increased due to Hamas' tactic of firing rockets from schools, transporting ammunition in ambulances and generally using their population and sometimes the foreign press as a human shield.
@kayna
A picture is indeed worth a 1000 words, but that does mean that all of those words are true. First of all, in 1947 there was no such thing as Palestinian land, or rather it did not belong to the Arabic population of Palestine. The land belonged to the British. Secondly, notice that the first picture does not show the distribution between Arabic and Jewish settlements, it just puts the main Jewish settlements on a map of Palestine, disregarding all the unpopulated areas. Look at the map below:
The green dots are Jewish settlements, the purple ones are the Arabic settlements and the black ones are mixed.
What you'll see in most of the land is either a mishmash of both or an absence of either.
The second and the third pictures are, of course, correct as the talk about borders and not population. What they fail to explain, however, is the circumstances of the transition between them. For example, they fail to explain that in 1948 all of the surrounding Arabic countries launched a war on the newly formed Israel in an attempt to conquer the land despite the UN partition plan. Unfortunately for them, the plan backfired as Israel ended up controlling more land than it started with. Of course, the map also does not explain the Six Day War. The war when Israel based on its military intelligence reports and the amassing of Arabic troops on the borders, launched a preemptive strike and conquered a whole lot more land. It is this land that caused a lot of controversy and has been in dispute with the Palestinians ever since. Some of it was traded back for peace with Jordan and Egypt. On a side note, Egypt did not ask (and according to some records refused when proposed) to take back the Gaza strip along with Sinai.
The forth picture shows how much of the Palestinian land is in fact under full Israeli control. Yes, this also includes the evil settlements everyone talks about. And yes, their growth does not help advance peace in any way. I'm not one of the people who pushes towards the constant expanding of the settlements, but consider this: let's take as a fact that the settlements are there (a problematic fact, I know, but they were established dozens of years ago and I 'm trying to look at today). Their population continues to grow. As I see it there are only two ways to accommodate that: expand the existing settlements or move out. Why not move out and give the and back to the Palestinians then? It is a possibility. But it would be nice to get something in return. Something simple. Like the obligation to stop terrorism. Or the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Because the last time Israel did something like this and moved out of Gaza, all it got was more rockets.
@Elodin
Your last paragraph is not entirely true. The peace Israel made with Egypt and Jordan persists to this very day.
@Salamandre
Actually, if you're talking about the times before 1948 the Jews didn't steal any land. I'm not going to say that they were all peaceful as there was a resistance that fought the British forces, but the actual land was bought with money. The people who sold it did that out of their own free will.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 24, 2015 11:17 AM |
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No, of course I am talking about the actual and recent colonization, yet you again try to go around.
This is the main problem between Israel and Palestine: while "talking" about peace, Israel steals land. This had been condemned dozens of times, but it goes away every time because our leaders enjoy being US puppets, then US enjoys being Israel puppet.
Geny said:
consider this: let's take as a fact that the settlements are there (a problematic fact, I know, but they were established dozens of years ago and I 'm trying to look at today). Their population continues to grow. As I see it there are only two ways to accommodate that: expand the existing settlements or move out.
Japan also experiences growth limits problems and choose to immigrate instead of stealing land from let's say Australia. And when Netanyahu visits every Europe country, which is the central part of his speech?
"Jews, come back to your country".
And now you say there are growth problems thus Israel must expand?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 24, 2015 12:07 PM |
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I was under the impression that Elodin was talking about the time before 1948 in the part you quoted, so that's what I responded to. I did not try to avoid the recent situation as you can clearly see by the part you quoted from.
When Israeli officials call onto Jews to come to Israel, they do not necessarily mean the settlements. There is a lot of other places in Israel to live in. Why don't the settlers go to those places as well? Because they want to live with their family in the place they grew up in. Why doesn't the Israeli government stop them? Because they have no motivation to. There were several instances of "freezing" the expansion of the settlements in the past. But that did not stop the terrorism or helped achieve any kind of headway. So why give in to the other side if you don't get anything in return?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 24, 2015 12:26 PM |
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I am under the impression you live at 45th floor of a high tower. Stop using binoculars, get down and look realistically at the situation. How you expect freezing colonization to have any peaceful effect when:
a) Palestinians (as everybody in the world) know it is only temporary, Israel will is to slowly exterminate all of them, this is no longer a speculation: look at death statistics.
b) Israel still holds the colonized land, which, by international laws, must give back. Until the last centimeter.
Geny said:
So why give in to the other side if you don't get anything in return?
lol, you mean stop stealing = give something? This recalls me a lot of jewish-about jokes I heard by the past.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 24, 2015 01:03 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 13:14, 24 Oct 2015.
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Geny said:
They were regrettable collateral damage. Collateral damage, might I add, that was heavily increased due to Hamas' tactic of firing rockets from schools, transporting ammunition in ambulances and generally using their population and sometimes the foreign press as a human shield.
While I don't agree with such tactics, people need to understand that people fight with what they've got. When a heavily armed army attacks an "undergeared" one ( MMO TERMINOLOGY COUGH COUGH FIRST WORLD !!!!!!!!!! ), seeing such tactics emerge from the weak side is but a NATURAL CONSEQUENCE. Under better circumstances, I doubt they would be used as human shields. If a 6 foot muscular guy attacked me, I would bring a knife to said fight.
Yes, land was took after a few short lived wars. But then again, they also take land when not in war, via this colonization that you admit exist. If they take land during war, and not during war, then maybe the war isn't the "reason" why they took said land. One needs to understand Israel's intentions ; they are there to take land. Simple. Every opportunity to take land is fine, minus 1 or 2 exceptions to hide their intentions ( leaving Gaza to the Palestinians. Look how merciful we are! ).
Geny said:
Why not move out and give the and back to the Palestinians then? It is a possibility.
No, it's not even considered, because Israel is the Jews' holy land, and they are religious fanatics. Jews were first offered an empty piece of land in Africa but they turned it down.
You guys seems to ignore many evil tactics used by the Jews. First, there's excessive war. 2 Israeli soldiers killed by an isolated terrorist? Retaliation with a full scale war resulting in 1 000 + civilian/combatant deaths, millions displaced, etc. This is the equivalent of being shot by a black guy and then going on a black killing spree. This "collateral damage" term that some people seem to toss like it's nothing, better be kept to a damn minimum. Otherwise, it's as evil as using its own people like human shields.
Second, there's massive brainwash propaganda. They never admit their wrongs, they talk as if they're never wrong, and they teach their own kids modified versions of history at school so they'll never get it.
Third, there's colonization. Hard to the core Jewish settlers given a few rifles to "defend" their family, along with a "recently evacuated" building ( use your imagination to guess how that happened ) to live in. Places are carefully selected ; richest lands ( access to water, fertile land, etc ) are taken.
Fourth, there's an almost total absence of prosecution for any Jew attacking a Gentille in any way. Rock throwing isn't a Palestinian only pastime!
Fifth, there's constant IDF harassment. When you're a Palestinian, IDF army guys can, at any moment, temporarily seize your house and use it as a base of operation for a time. They don't really need that base of operation ; the goal is to harass the snow out of you and displacing you out of there. Some get the message and do not come back once the army squad departs.
Sixth, building walls. Walls that doesn't only "protect" but block access to important locations, but only for Palestinians. Thing is, I should be talking about... hmm. how to coin it. Infrastructure domination, rather than just building walls? Because now Israelites are building freaking bridges over Palestinian slums to connect two patches of Israeli settler land!
Seventh, destruction of key buildings. Gaza airport? Nuke that snow!
Eight, absolute control of what goes in and out of Palestinian land. Naval blockades. Road blocks. Don't go fishing too far, because there are IDF boats there ready to shoot you down. Airspace control ( see seventh ). Borders control not only who, but what goes in and out. Things as simple as spice for your food can be prevented from going in, because of the necropolitic tactics used by Jews.
etc etc etc.
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This thread is pages long: 
